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I would be appealing perhaps, to professional pianists, students of all levels, and teachers looking to perfect their teaching craft. I would also be expecting to hear from pianists preparing for international competitions, concerts with orchestra and solo recitals, auditions etc. I have already found that teaching the Rachmaninov stretching exercises this way proved to be fruitful. The traditions of Josef Lhevinne through my teacher, Adele Marcus, would be quite exciting to teach via today's technology. I am sure they would have done the same. Frank, we can explore this all further in CO.
[quote=R0B] ~Are DV camcoders set up to accept something like the Shure SM57?
The SM57 will sound best if run through a mixer. It needs something to boost the volume if you are going to use that mic. In videos I've made, I have a simple 4 track mixer with aux outs (L and R) that go to 8th inch (like ipod head phone size) that plugs right into the mic input in your computer. This way, you can have four tracks to mess with that all mix down to a single output (one track voice, one track keyboard, perhaps two tracks with two mics on an acoustic piano, etc ) These mixers are fairly inexpensive. Also, depending on the camera you are using, you just need to make sure you have your windows settings set to not use the camera mic and to instead pull from the mic input.
I'm a first-time poster here. I have an alternate option which came about as a result of offering online lessons, which I do mostly because I have a specialized technqiue. I am set up to use Skype and a webcam. However, there's a little delay sometimes with Skype, or some minor pixilating, so what has actually worked really well with at least one long-distance student, is to have an on-going video dialogue using Vimeo. For instance, he makes his own video of himself playing, his questions and/o0r comments. He can instantly upload the video, and I can watch it right away. Then I make a response video, specific to his individual needs. It can go back and forth for however long is needed. Vimeo is kind of like youtube, but it's less populated, less commercial, and very easy to use. Also the videos can be longer.
That sounds quite interesting, although I am looking to teach direct 'live' on the scene. Before I move forward with this idea, as I am on faculty also at Brooklyn College and the CUNY Graduate Center, I would have to see how many people would be interested to take online lessons with me. Out of the thousands of readers here, I would probably limit myself to 10 hours per week.
[quote=R0B] ~Are DV camcoders set up to accept something like the Shure SM57?
The SM57 will sound best if run through a mixer. It needs something to boost the volume if you are going to use that mic. In videos I've made, I have a simple 4 track mixer with aux outs (L and R) that go to 8th inch (like ipod head phone size) that plugs right into the mic input in your computer. This way, you can have four tracks to mess with that all mix down to a single output (one track voice, one track keyboard, perhaps two tracks with two mics on an acoustic piano, etc ) These mixers are fairly inexpensive. Also, depending on the camera you are using, you just need to make sure you have your windows settings set to not use the camera mic and to instead pull from the mic input.
This was an interesting post to me because for the web show i am setting up this is sort of a related matter. Jazz piano Educator heres my setup. I have a Canon zr500 cheap yes i know lol. But anyway i also have a logitech headset. A good tripod thats about it. now heres where it gets interesting. So i have the application webcam dv that allows you to use your dv camcorder as a webcam. but then i also have an application called webcam max so you dont have to take the audio from your camera but the headset also i would guess the shur mic would work too and i think the web cam max gives better quality in my opinion but then for skype to choose a webcam to go to you click webcam max because it combines the video from webcam dv to the mic you are trying to input. Just as simple as that. :]
My Keyboards: Estonia L-190, Roland RD88, Yamaha P-80, Bilhorn Telescope Organ c 1880, Antique Pump Organ, 1850 concertina, 3 other digital pianos ------------------------- My original piece on BandCamp: https://frankbaxtermrpianoworld.bandcamp.com/releases
Me banging out some tunes in the Estonia piano booth at the NAMM show...
...plugged into my Macbook using either iSight or Skype. I still need to research that - I don't think the problem is as much the hardware as getting the software to transmit a high audio quality. Most chat software assumes speech and tailors the audio bandwidth to a limited frequency range. The piano has a very wide frequency range, and this is why the piano sounds tinny or thin over telephones and built-in computer mics.
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)
Hi, I am an advanced performer; I am a student, doing PHD, and also teach for over 8 years. The age of my students varies from 4 to 62. I do not teach just for fan, I plan my lessons for specific purposes i.e. performance or at least a degree or grades in music. The touch and visual observation of students is very important, often by simply watching them from distance we may miss the poor hand position, or posture which in tern may lead to complications. Often inappropriate attack of the keys may not be obvious when using soft ware. I personally would never take lesson or teach online.
Dear all, I hate to thing, that I may offend other members of this forum. Of course the idea may work well, but I think there is a danger, especially in teaching younger students, to miss things, which are fundamental for their musical development. It is simply my thoughts, but I would love to be proved wrong.
Doesn't offend me at all. I think online learning is only really effective in "coaching" situations where you're helping someone who's already got the basics down. I think the idea student for online music learning is an adolescent or adult who's looking for advice on how to manage specific goals they want to achieve.
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)
I started this thread because of discussions I've had with Jeffrey (Biegel, concert pianist) about reaching out to students around the world.
His students tend to be quite advanced pianist and/or piano teachers who teach at a high level. They could also be someone who is preparing for a competition, or working on a particular piece and needs (as Kreisler states) some "coaching".
All that said, I have found some interesting sites that teach lessons "online", like this one for jazz piano ... http://www.jazzpianoonline.com/
I would not recommend strictly studying online, as I don't think they should be considered a substitute for a good teacher. However, there are opportunities to learn theory (something I'm sorely lacking in) and for live interactive coaching.
Which brings me back to the hardware questions.
I'd like to see some setups the are working with acoustic pianos. If anyone has any good live examples, please let me know.
My Keyboards: Estonia L-190, Roland RD88, Yamaha P-80, Bilhorn Telescope Organ c 1880, Antique Pump Organ, 1850 concertina, 3 other digital pianos ------------------------- My original piece on BandCamp: https://frankbaxtermrpianoworld.bandcamp.com/releases
Me banging out some tunes in the Estonia piano booth at the NAMM show...
I have to say, that I think there is a huge future in online 'live' lessons. There are many people, who for one reason, or another, are reticent about either, travelling to a teacher's studio, or having a teacher come into their home. Some people prefer a non face to face situation, where they may otherwise feel intimidated, or judged. I make it clear, that there is no requirement for the student to show their face, if they don't want to. ( I don't show mine, as I don't want to scare them off, LOL ) You have to be prepared to spend a little more time, than you normally would for a lesson, due to web glitches, etc., but I am sure that will improve in the future. Some time needs to be spent, on making sure the student has the optimum setup, and environment, but I have found that a great teacher/student relationship can be achieved, very easily, and quickly. As to mic-ing up an acoustic piano, I have no experience, but a reasonable quality microphone, plus another for the teacher's voice, both run into a small mixer, or multi input audio interface, would be easily set up. With my small mixer and audio interface, I can switch seamlessly from piano, to guitar, at the turn of a knob, and also use my voice microphone at the same time. Using Skype add-ons, I can play any audio file to the student, or send pdf files, etc. It all takes a bit of experimentation, but can be worth it in the end. Here in Australia, there are many people living in remote areas, who have no other access to music lessons, so maybe they are more used to using internet alternatives.
Edited to add: If anyone would like to test out their Skype connection, I would be happy to oblige. it is always interesting to see how different connections around the world, perform.
I know Jeffrey has done some teaching/coaching already over the Internet.
I can certainly see the advantage where the student and teacher are many miles apart. That was Jeffrey's point. It isn't that he doesn't want to teach in person, that would be preferred. But he gets approached by people from across the country and around the world.
My goal with this thread, besides getting valuable feedback, is to determine the minimum hardware (and software) needed to make this work.
I realize the set up would be different for a digital piano (which is all I have right now) and an acoustic.
I'm hoping a few people can weigh in with what they are using for mics, mixers, interfaces, and software.
I know I've tried recording my playing just using a web cam. Although the video was acceptable, the audio wasn't. And I wasn't trying to stream it live.
Keep the feedback coming folks, we're getting some good information and interesting perspectives here.
Rob... Thanks for the offer to let us try Skype connections with your location. Considering I'm in the Southeast part of the U.S. (Florida) and you are on the other side of the world, it would be a good test.
I'll have to take you up on your kind offer once I get something in place. Now, how do I get the camera to remove about 45lbs of my ample tummy before it transmits?
Last edited by Piano World; 04/26/0912:02 PM. Reason: Edited to reply to your edit Rob :-)
My Keyboards: Estonia L-190, Roland RD88, Yamaha P-80, Bilhorn Telescope Organ c 1880, Antique Pump Organ, 1850 concertina, 3 other digital pianos ------------------------- My original piece on BandCamp: https://frankbaxtermrpianoworld.bandcamp.com/releases
Me banging out some tunes in the Estonia piano booth at the NAMM show...
I'm interested in online teaching too, but with a responsible outcome to what transpired in the teaching.
There is nothing worse then to provide a lot of information to a student who is just not ready for it, confusion begats confusion.
Interactive lessons where there is listening together and communicating about the lesson being taken is much better for teaching purposes than a video that covers so much general information.
It is a "wasteland" of information if it is not applied to structure of what is already known. Learning "legato" (in a smooth and connected flow of information gathering) is as important as learning the playing technique of "legato" .
To me, this implies the teacher and the student are connected.
When I look at videos I can see and hear and watch points being made, but my level of understanding is quite advanced and augmented by 38 years of teaching piano. Not much escapes me.
The learner looking at such things, gets a clue, but can't guite grasp it into action on his own.
I like video teaching online from the idea that a lot of people can get a lesson plan started, being efficient for the teacher instead of always one on one with the student - but there needs to be an interface between the teacher and the student where they "mingle" together in discussing what is happening with this particular learner. It's also on-going, not one time.
So if I could employ the technical capacity to enhance my studio teaching, I would. If I could teach to the world, I would. But I would insist on their being some kind of evaluation from the teacher to the student to edu-cate them.
"Do this - do that" imitative teaching reduces to no to little expectation that the student is going to get the teaching points and be able to run with it.
Musicians looking down from a higher level of preparation are going to profit more from on line teaching and videos, the ones in beginner to advancing are not going to have as successful outcome as foreseen. The learner needs guidance, mentoring, coaching, teaching from a live person with whom they can interact.
Many learners do work on their own and enjoy it - but more so, it produces problems in pianists perceptions that have been built upon even more so, and the result is that you have a person trapped and frustrated because their attempts have not come to fruition in producing an independance musician who easily makes music at the level they have reached. If may be reparable, it may not. We see problems all the time in transfer students, and in people who have been self teaching.
Playing piano is a very unique set of intelligence - something that needs shaping and explaining and discussion - it does not come to you just by sitting on a piano bench facing in the right direction. You have to know how to apply it.
This is the teacher's domain. It's an essential thing if you expect to be accomplished at your instrument. Otherwise musicians would never have the need to take lessons if it were attainable by doing it yourself, or from a video.
The piano encompasses 88 keys and 10 fingers and a brain to operate. Heavy equipment workers need licensing, we should be "licensed", too, by a "training program".
Piano is not a casual undertaking at all but we all hope to do our best at it starting from where we are and by whatever means are available.
Hello Betty, Forgive me if I am wrong, but your post implies that we are talking about pre-recorded video lessons, here? The use of Skype, (or similar) enables us to have exactly the real-time interaction between teacher and student, that you rightly endorse. The lessons are conducted 'live', with immediate feedback and communication between the two parties.
Of course, this can never replace lessons in person, in the same room, but allows those, who, for one reason or another, are unable to travel to a teacher, to have lessons 'in person'. The technology is already being used for many teaching applications. Language learning, etc., and can only improve over time. It is also possible for the student to record the 'live' lesson, to view again later.
To Frank, I realise that your tummy concerns, were said in jest, but it is a valid point, and the beauty of the technology, is that you can simply focus the camera onto the keyboard, or other instrument, and can remain completely anonymous if desired.
Edited to add: If anyone would like to test out their Skype connection, I would be happy to oblige. it is always interesting to see how different connections around the world, perform.
Rob,
Could you PM or email webmaster@pianoworld.com me your Skype info? I'd like to give it a try, and the distance between us would make an interesting test.
Of course we need to coordinate the timing. I'm in Southeast Florida, EDT in the U.S. I believe that makes me GMT - 5:00
