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I've been looking at some pre owned uprights, and i'm wondering, what are some brands that i should definelty stay away from??
And also, some cheap priced pianos really stunned me.
Such as, alot of Baldwins, Pearls And River, Kimball, Young Chang, and so i was wondering, what brands should i definetlly avoid, I'm looking for a piano that would sound good playing pop, like Yiruma's music, and that can last me at LEAST 8-10 years.

Hi musicxfreakk, welcome to the forum. I think any of the brands you mentioned should last you 8-10 years. (That's assuming you meant "Pearl River", not Pearls and River ).

Rather than specific brands, the factors I would look for in shopping for a used upright are:

1.) Age. Here, the younger the better, and I would try to buy something no more than 10-15 years old.

2.) Height. Avoid spinets (pianos shorter than 42" or so). Technicians hate to work on them, and they won't sound as nice as a taller console or studio. The one exception is if you can find a Baldwin acrosonic spinet, which are generally regarded as pretty good spinets. But also avoid the extremely tall uprights, as they tend to be very old (80-100 years old) and usually not good for musical purposes.

3.) Gray market pianos. These are Asian pianos originally sold in Japan and then imported into the U.S. These can be good pianos (and good deals), but there can be pitfalls in shopping for them. Having them inspected by a technician prior to agreeing to purchase is essential. Search the archives for "gray market" or "grey market" for more info.

Good luck!

p.s. "River flows in you" is one of my favorite pieces to play.

You should stay away from any piano that you have not had an independent piano technician that you hire yourself check out first.

the only reason i buying a used one is because of my budget, i dont think i'll be able to get a person to check it specifically.
-.-

to monica: i found many baldwin acrosonics that were very cheap...

Monica K and rocket88 gave you the best advice you can get.

To review: Limit you choices to recently built pianos. Make an appointment to view and play the piano, if the tone and action are pleasing to you.... make an appointment to have your tech evaluate it.

This is one of those times.... that you will need to spend money to save money.

Sorry, I think our latest posts crossed in siber space. A tech might not cost as much as you think. A visit on your own will rule out a lot of used instruments that are not worthy of carrying home. If you absolutely can't hire a tech, consider asking your piano teacher of church pianist if they would go with you.

In my own experience these folks were very happy to help out. In many instances they have shopped for pianos in the past..... Perhaps they could offer some insight into the pitfalls of the instrument before you.

If money is an issue.... You certainly can't afford to spend your hard earned dollars on junk ---- there is plenty of that for sale under the words: USED PIANO.

yes, i know to actually get the best cheapest instrument i can get, i have to go and see it myself, but i cant get a ride, considering my uncle is a butthead so im on my own.
I saw many cheap chickerings as well.
So far, people recommended kawais,yamahas, acrosonic, and chickerings. alrighty.
also, if i get a digital, which one should i get that will last me for 3-5 years at least?
as in, it's realistic and good enough to last 3-5 years.
thankyou=DD

Check with the local techs. Often they have more pianos than they want, or know of a good deal or two.

Stay away from the expensive ones.

They are seductive.

I have come across it quite often - I come to service a used piano the client recently bought and have to break the bad news to them - this piano is hardly worth tuning.

The reply: "But my music teacher/friend who plays/church pianist said it was OK."

Players, even teachers, for the most part, are not able to judge critical factors of a piano's technical condition.

If you can't hire a tech to check out a piano, then surely you can't hire one to tune the piano. Oh, yes, I forgot - it was tuned in the factory...

Do not buy Samick, Young-Chang, Pearl River, Gulbransen. These are furniture with a noise maker inside. Your are better off with a free piano off of craigslist. That would be fine for most people for the first few years.

A used Yamaha P22 school piano is the first real piano anyone should consider paying real money for. This is the secret of the piano industry. Rick Jones cannot keep them in stock. Used P22s come up periodically on craigslist for around $2000. I saw one as low as $1000, but it did not last long.

used vertical pianos older than say 20 years old, should be ignored, a higher end digital offers more value, better action and sound in most cases for a better price point. Unless you are looking at name brands, that in their heyday(sp?) were expensive....and have been kept up.

Samick, Young Chang, Suzuki (really, don't go there!), and Mason and Risch (I've played several of the last and notice they have problems on a consistent basis.) And Casios for digital piano, or any digital piano with a detachable pedal for that matter.)

Meri

With all due respect, have you looked at pianos in the last 20 years? All of those brands are real piano companies other than Gulbransen and should be acceptable pianos for 20-30 years or more. None of these are noise makers. What an insult to the entire Koean piano business.

What *not* to buy is similiar to what race *not* to marry.

Insider hint:

Some treasures can be sometimes found in least suspected places.

I've come across a lot of shitty great name pianos and some real surprises among those who were *not*

One particular Young Chang grand comes to mind: when the Korean customer for a new Estonia offered it to us, I almost declined. She had brought it along form Korea and wanted to replace it as it was 10 years "old" to her - too old for her ethnical view of things....

Little did I know this particular piano to almost rival one of our own Sauters when it arrived here.....

If your budget is really that limited, I would recommend a digital. Perhaps a Casio PX series or Yamaha P series. The Casio would likely cost less. Either will last several years. No tuning needed (saves more money - which you could put toward a future acoustic piano). I have a Casio. It has a decent feeling action, but it sounds like crud (to me, anyway.) The Yamaha sounds a bit better, but it is also more money.

If you do decide to go with the acoustic, then you really need to pay a tech to check it out for you first. With used pianos, it really is more about individual instruments and how they've been maintained over the years than about brands. Find one you like at a price you can afford. If the tech says it's okay, then buy it.

Thank you for repeating my post Mr. Treibitz. The more times it is drummed into the piano consumers head the better piano they will get. So you have me insulting the Korean race. Nice twist.

But it is not just me who has this opinion. Larry Fine in the 1994 issue completely trashes Young Chang and Samick as junk and lauds Yamaha as "superb, virtually perfect, rather spectacular" as I have quoted in another thread.

But here is a better question for you Mr. Treibitz. Instead of talking up the junk brands, why don't you just sell the good ones? By your signature you carry every inferior brand new but only carry the quality brands use. Why don't you just become a dealer of the good brands and then you would not be insulted by criticism of the sub-standard inferior stuff.

ThreeBees,

Since some of your posts state opinions formed by checking out pianos at Rick Jones Piano, you might want to ask Rick the same question. Rick sells boatloads of ancient Yamahas and Kawais. He references his blowout prices on those 20 to 30-year-old pianos by comparing them to the MSRP of the nearest new equivalent (even though he doesn't sell them). Pretty cheesy, don't you think?

Among Rick Jones' new piano offerings are the Royale, the August Hoffman, and the May-Berlin. All are from China. Two of the three are store stencils. Why doesn't Rick sell new Yamaha and Kawai pianos instead of that "inferior" stuff? Probably you should ask him.

Glenn Treibetz sells lines at a lot of different pricepoints. Some may be better than others, but none of them are junk. If Glenn wanted to bother with the likes of you, he could easily defend his brands and his business. But why should he bother with a loud-mouthed immature individual who wishes to shout out what he has garnered from the 1994 Larry Fine book and from hanging out at Rick Jones Piano? I can't think of a reason. Can You?

The owner of this site would like the content of this forum to be of a quality that members would be willing to pay a fee for if help is needed for its upkeep. Unfortunately, people like you who insult anyone here who owns any piano other than those specified in his personal mantra can tear down the good work that a lot of members accomplish here. That's a shame.

Nice post, Turandot.

I visited a former church a few months ago for a homecoming service and they had purchased a new Young Chang 5 foot baby grand since I was there last; it sounded surprisingly good. After the service, while they were having dinner, I slipped back to the sanctuary and tried it out. It was a very nice sounding and playing piano. About as far from junk as the east is from the west.

Take care,

Rick