Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1181250 - 04/16/09 12:40 AM Writing music with no time signature
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
A recent discussion over in PC got me thinking.

Some modern composers have developed notation where there is no time signature, and no measures. Obviously, one can do easily this by hand, but is there any way to do it with Finale or other notation software? Just curious. smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

Top
Piano & Music Acc. / Sheet Music


Sheet Music Plus Homepage
#1181255 - 04/16/09 01:01 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: Horowitzian]
RogerW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 430
I'm sure it is possible in Finale to achieve this result. Sibelius doesn't support it directly, but you can hide the time signatures and bar lines. When I have worked without time signatures, I usually select the (hidden) time signature according to how many beats there are in the current system (one bar per system). This way I don't need to adjust note spacings that would be changed because of hidden bar lines in the middle of the system.

Top
#1181278 - 04/16/09 02:16 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: RogerW]
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
Finale allows this as well - there are options that allow you to hide time sigs and barlines as Roger mentioned for Sibelius. Note spacing would likely be an issue, as Finale will, by default, still space the notes as though the barlines are not there. However, this can be adjusted. You can do it note by note, which would get tedious over a long piece. While I don't know of a specific way to adjust note spacings over a large section of a work, something tells me there's got to be an option for that though...

Top
#1181283 - 04/16/09 02:28 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: 8ude]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5899
Loc: Down Under
I've done this with Finale. As you say, you deselect "show time signatures" and "show barlines" in (I think, in my version anyway) document options. And I don't recall having any problems with spacing. Piece of cake. smile
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1181316 - 04/16/09 05:21 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: currawong]
RowyVH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 26
Loc: The Netherlands
It's possible in Finale. Can't remember how though. I think currawong is right.

About spacing, you can use three different spacing modes in Finale: Note spacing, beat spacing and time signature spacing.
_________________________
http://www.rowy.net/ - Download more than 2.000 free music scores.

Top
#1181329 - 04/16/09 06:49 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: RowyVH]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5899
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: RowyVH
About spacing, you can use three different spacing modes in Finale: Note spacing, beat spacing and time signature spacing.

My version just has note spacing and beat spacing, I think (unless time sig spacing is the default). But it is nearly 15 years old smile
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1181338 - 04/16/09 07:24 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: currawong]
Tar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 296
Loc: Munich, Germany
Note Spacing usually works wonders in most situations. Finale 2006 upwards (not sure about older ones) has the option of re-defining the physical boundary of note-spacing that means that you can treat the barline as if it wasn't there.



Above at the top is a staff with time signatures hidden (a), and, below that, with barlines hidden (b). Select the Measure Tool, and use the Measure -> Show Measure Spacing Handles menu. Once checked, two additional handles will appear (red and green, c), defining the spacing at the left and right of the measure respectively. If you drag the right handle to overlap with the left handle (d), the music will space itself as if the barline wasn't there (e).

This is fine-tuning, but it's helpful to have this as a final polishing step. Also this allows you to set the hidden time signatures to reflect the musical sense of the passage independent of paper and staff sizes. The handles, as with all Finale handles, can be selected and moved in batch.

Just for completion regarding figure (c), the blue handle resizes the measure, and the grey handle allows manual adjustment of spacing of each note.


Edited by Tar (04/16/09 07:27 AM)
_________________________
Tar Viturawong
Amateur composer and pianist
Known on YouTube as pianoinspiration
verbis defectis musica incipit

Top
#1181353 - 04/16/09 07:57 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: Tar]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5899
Loc: Down Under
That could be useful - pretty sure my version doesn't have this, but as you say, note spacing works for most purposes.

Tar, I just wish I had some Finale questions, because you have all the answers! thumb
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1181461 - 04/16/09 10:13 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: currawong]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Thanks, guys! thumb Might be time to experiment some. grin
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

Top
#1181592 - 04/16/09 01:57 PM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: Horowitzian]
James McFadyen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 103
Loc: Manchester UK
LILYPOND....

\cadenzaOn


\cadenzaOff


SIMPLE!
_________________________
James McFadyen
Black & White Editions (c/o Devilish Publishing)
NEW PIANO MUSIC DEALS - http://www.blackandwhiteeditions.com/

Top
#1181759 - 04/16/09 06:48 PM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: currawong]
RowyVH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 26
Loc: The Netherlands
I use Finale 2008.
_________________________
http://www.rowy.net/ - Download more than 2.000 free music scores.

Top
#1181762 - 04/16/09 06:55 PM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: James McFadyen]
RowyVH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 26
Loc: The Netherlands
Oh, now I remember how I made the score without barlines. I used a 8/1 time signature (or something like that). Less barlines to adjust.
_________________________
http://www.rowy.net/ - Download more than 2.000 free music scores.

Top
#1181782 - 04/16/09 07:30 PM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: James McFadyen]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: Devilish Publishing
LILYPOND....

\cadenzaOn


\cadenzaOff


SIMPLE!


Gee thanks. smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

Top
#1182023 - 04/17/09 03:31 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: RowyVH]
Tar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 296
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: RowyVH
Oh, now I remember how I made the score without barlines. I used a 8/1 time signature (or something like that). Less barlines to adjust.


You can adjust all barlines in one go: just use Ctrl+A. All handles of the same kind will move/modify together in multiple selections. grin
_________________________
Tar Viturawong
Amateur composer and pianist
Known on YouTube as pianoinspiration
verbis defectis musica incipit

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
U.S. Treasury Auctioning Steinway Art Case Concert Grand
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
131 registered (ajames, 36251, Anne'sson, 35 invisible), 1838 Guests and 16 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75487 Members
42 Forums
156090 Topics
2292124 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Help for Newbie
by PianoJill
12 minutes 22 seconds ago
25 Vintage Steinways
by Rich D.
15 minutes 45 seconds ago
First steps for improvisers and composers
by Mark Polishook
21 minutes 53 seconds ago
First steps for improvisers and composers
by Mark Polishook
34 minutes 47 seconds ago
Partial strength - hammer voicing or soundboard ?
by prout
37 minutes 20 seconds ago
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission