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#1181250 - 04/16/09 12:40 AM Writing music with no time signature
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
A recent discussion over in PC got me thinking.

Some modern composers have developed notation where there is no time signature, and no measures. Obviously, one can do easily this by hand, but is there any way to do it with Finale or other notation software? Just curious. smile
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#1181255 - 04/16/09 01:01 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: Horowitzian]
RogerW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 439
I'm sure it is possible in Finale to achieve this result. Sibelius doesn't support it directly, but you can hide the time signatures and bar lines. When I have worked without time signatures, I usually select the (hidden) time signature according to how many beats there are in the current system (one bar per system). This way I don't need to adjust note spacings that would be changed because of hidden bar lines in the middle of the system.

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#1181278 - 04/16/09 02:16 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: RogerW]
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
Finale allows this as well - there are options that allow you to hide time sigs and barlines as Roger mentioned for Sibelius. Note spacing would likely be an issue, as Finale will, by default, still space the notes as though the barlines are not there. However, this can be adjusted. You can do it note by note, which would get tedious over a long piece. While I don't know of a specific way to adjust note spacings over a large section of a work, something tells me there's got to be an option for that though...

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#1181283 - 04/16/09 02:28 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: 8ude]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5976
Loc: Down Under
I've done this with Finale. As you say, you deselect "show time signatures" and "show barlines" in (I think, in my version anyway) document options. And I don't recall having any problems with spacing. Piece of cake. smile
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#1181316 - 04/16/09 05:21 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: currawong]
RowyVH Offline
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Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 26
Loc: The Netherlands
It's possible in Finale. Can't remember how though. I think currawong is right.

About spacing, you can use three different spacing modes in Finale: Note spacing, beat spacing and time signature spacing.
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#1181329 - 04/16/09 06:49 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: RowyVH]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5976
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: RowyVH
About spacing, you can use three different spacing modes in Finale: Note spacing, beat spacing and time signature spacing.

My version just has note spacing and beat spacing, I think (unless time sig spacing is the default). But it is nearly 15 years old smile
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#1181338 - 04/16/09 07:24 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: currawong]
Tar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 296
Loc: Munich, Germany
Note Spacing usually works wonders in most situations. Finale 2006 upwards (not sure about older ones) has the option of re-defining the physical boundary of note-spacing that means that you can treat the barline as if it wasn't there.



Above at the top is a staff with time signatures hidden (a), and, below that, with barlines hidden (b). Select the Measure Tool, and use the Measure -> Show Measure Spacing Handles menu. Once checked, two additional handles will appear (red and green, c), defining the spacing at the left and right of the measure respectively. If you drag the right handle to overlap with the left handle (d), the music will space itself as if the barline wasn't there (e).

This is fine-tuning, but it's helpful to have this as a final polishing step. Also this allows you to set the hidden time signatures to reflect the musical sense of the passage independent of paper and staff sizes. The handles, as with all Finale handles, can be selected and moved in batch.

Just for completion regarding figure (c), the blue handle resizes the measure, and the grey handle allows manual adjustment of spacing of each note.


Edited by Tar (04/16/09 07:27 AM)
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Tar Viturawong
Amateur composer and pianist
Known on YouTube as pianoinspiration
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#1181353 - 04/16/09 07:57 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: Tar]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5976
Loc: Down Under
That could be useful - pretty sure my version doesn't have this, but as you say, note spacing works for most purposes.

Tar, I just wish I had some Finale questions, because you have all the answers! thumb
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#1181461 - 04/16/09 10:13 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: currawong]
Horowitzian Offline
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Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Thanks, guys! thumb Might be time to experiment some. grin
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#1181592 - 04/16/09 01:57 PM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: Horowitzian]
James McFadyen Offline
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Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 103
Loc: Manchester UK
LILYPOND....

\cadenzaOn


\cadenzaOff


SIMPLE!
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#1181759 - 04/16/09 06:48 PM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: currawong]
RowyVH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 26
Loc: The Netherlands
I use Finale 2008.
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#1181762 - 04/16/09 06:55 PM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: James McFadyen]
RowyVH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 26
Loc: The Netherlands
Oh, now I remember how I made the score without barlines. I used a 8/1 time signature (or something like that). Less barlines to adjust.
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http://www.rowy.net/ - Download more than 2.000 free music scores.

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#1181782 - 04/16/09 07:30 PM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: James McFadyen]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: Devilish Publishing
LILYPOND....

\cadenzaOn


\cadenzaOff


SIMPLE!


Gee thanks. smile
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Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1182023 - 04/17/09 03:31 AM Re: Writing music with no time signature [Re: RowyVH]
Tar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 296
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: RowyVH
Oh, now I remember how I made the score without barlines. I used a 8/1 time signature (or something like that). Less barlines to adjust.


You can adjust all barlines in one go: just use Ctrl+A. All handles of the same kind will move/modify together in multiple selections. grin
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Tar Viturawong
Amateur composer and pianist
Known on YouTube as pianoinspiration
verbis defectis musica incipit

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