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The answer is, I posted this to illustrate a technique and how it's used in New Age piano playing. If it inspires and helps fine. I knew there would be some who would "rake it" over the coals.

But as some have pointed out, I'm a big boy and can take it. What gets me is the hostility towards the post. Especially, and I emphasize especially, from fellow teachers. You think I personally came into their studio and swiped students from them.

P.S. As far as "greater musical challenges" go, I think the greatest challenge is for students to trust themselves and their intuition. Once this is accomplished, there is no end to the possiblities!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5fKEOAWsaI&feature=channel_page This is what you will be paying for. As I have to keep on repeating over and over again, he has some good ideas, but its not worth the 20 some odd dollars he's asking to teach you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDq0HqHXuq0&feature=related If you can guarantee that I will be playing at that level by the end of your course then sign me up! But if you're going to teach me the circle of fourths and tell me its the circle of fifths then you're doing a disservice to the people watching said video and draining there pockets in the process. It's like convincing your son that the color blue is called red. You can't ask a painter to paint the 16th chapel with a red crayon and glitter, why not give your students a full set of materials to create, instead of a couple of tidbits. And I'm looking at this from a new age standpoint which is your target audience
To busy bee; How sweet of you, you thought I was jealous. Well, in actuality I want to help a fellow teacher out and also make sure his students get the best education. Jealously doesn't even come to mind. Now if you want to sting me that's ok, but remember that you only have one shot, because of your anatomy, so make it count
To betty; thanks for the comment, much obliged! I enjoy reading your post, very informative!

Yadiel,

Thanks for posting another video of mine. I really appreciate it.

The fact that you don't think my course is worth $19 a month (not $20) is fine. To you it may not be.

But to my hundreds of students, it is.

As far as the circle goes, it can be referred to as the circle of fourths or fifths. Here's a wikipedia article on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

So you see, you can learn something in these forums after all!

P.S. My students learn how to play like the George Winston video you referenced by Lesson Four. So should I sign you up now?

For Pete's sake! Who would have known Wikipedia thinks there is a Circle of 4ths? There is corruption everywhere you look. Like a contagious "rash". They've captured irrational thought and now it's being marketed. Oh, maybe we knew that but don't want to admit it.

So you see, you can learn that wikipedia just goes with the flow of whoever posted, and whoever is posting these days.

George Winston plays like George Winston very much, he owns the George Winston style, plays in his George Winston outfits. He works with sound images and rhythm I believe. At one time he did not read music therefore could not write it. Then with the advent of computers in pianos, it's possible to play the keyboard and have it transformed to print. Because of this, his music has been able to be shared in print with the world. George is quite a mainstay of new age music and his associate musicians at Wyndham Hill have been mainstream and among the first on the scene. Let's hear it for George Winston! He is a very quiet, low keyed musician.

Does he know you use him as an endorser or example of your product?

What pomposity on your part, Ed.

Betty - this particular section of wikipedia says it's undergoing a major revision, and you can edit it. Scroll down a little ways and there will be an "edit" button. You can also click on the blue words "circle of fourths" and go edit that section if you want. That section says "circle of fourths" is used more in jazz. But the whole article is up for review/editing, and wikipedia is, after all, a citizen encyclopedia. So if you want something changed, go for it.

Cathy

Betty,

I don't "use" George Winston anymore than you use Beethoven, Czerny, or whatever you use to teach your students how to play piano.

I show students who want to learn this style, how to play in the style he plays in. Of course, that's just a small part of what I teach, but there's nothing wrong with that at all.

I'm not teaching them to play exactly what George plays. That would be limiting to a student's growth and identical to what you do. I teach the technique he uses so students can incorporate it into their own repertoire. Then they are free to create their own music.

Please, enough with the hostility already. It's getting ridiculous. And it doesn't reflect well on you Betty.

It's not hostility, and it's not jealously Ed, it's a little wrath because you misstate music theory and pick on piano teachers who do classical music training.

What reflects on me Ed is the power of my work in music, the power of my written word, and other accountabilites I have in my responsibilities to my family, friends and associates.

You have a commercial aspect going here for the selling of your video course - for the purpose of advertising it - and probably for the purpose of signing people up. What you offer is enticing, and I'm sure there is interest, as you proclaim how easy it is. Easy? Easy?

I think your contribution here is rather self serving and I have said so. You appear blatant to me in your reasons for posting. If you contribute something significant other than your own enterprize I will change my impression of you.

No teacher with ethics would do or say unpleasant things about other teachers the way that you have while you were posting as "Q" and now as Ed Weiss. You have no qualms.

Contribute with things other than what bears your name and website and learning program and stop trying to intimidate reputable teachers who teach things beyond your chosen teaching style.

It anything reflects on you Ed, it's your column, your post, your domain, your purpose.

I'm just publically reacting to your marketing madness and jaunty attitude that goes with your speal. For those that your program appeals to, there are ways for them to contact you that are your responsibility to pay for the marketing expenses of contacting people with your message. Put it in your budget and respect the forum for the purpose it has to users. I consider all of your posting self serving and exploitive.

Are we clear on that.

Fascinating. And a little scary.

I think Betty sums up how some of the teachers are feeling about what is happening, although others might not feel as strongly as Betty.Most people are here to share musical ideas without any pretense of commercial interest.. if every teacher here started making post about their lessons or their new CD's it will add a lot of junk to the forum, and it will be very annoying

btw i think your post might have been more helpful at the "Adult Beginners Forum"

I am confused.
As I see it, the original post, was a short video lesson, freely available to all, demonstrating a simple technique, that may be found to be useful by some piano students. Nothing wrong with that.
I would imagine that those who found it useful, would be happy, and those who didn't, would simply ignore it, and move on.
I really don't understand why such a post has caused so much hostility.
I don't know Ed, but I don't see why his link in his signature, is considered by some, to be nothing more than blatant self promotion, when I see others here, with similar links to their own business enterprises.
If I have missed the rules on posting links, I apologise.
Maybe someone could clarify this for me.

Also I would like to mention that the forum rules tell you

"Please do not use the forums to advertise or promote your business, services, or products."

do post like this break forum rules?

I personally see nothing wrong with what I'm doing here. If you do, then there's a simple solution - click away.

It's amazing how some are drawn back to this thread over and over as if some magic force is driving them.

If you have a problem with "what" I'm posting, take it up with the mods or with Frank and stop the harrasment.

And all of this could have been avoided, next time post in the Adult beginner forum. Now then, by lesson four you say that I will be playing like the video of George Winston I presented... I saw lesson 111 and it really had little to do with George Winston. There is a site http://www.jazzpianolessons.com/ he give you clear and precise instruction and look he has a free trail, he gives you the freedom to create and and the tools to do so. Now I'm not promoting him, but he's a example of a good teacher that I would pay good money to learn from. Are you willing to give a free trail? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfBKD-HiWhI&feature=channel_page here's a video of him expressing himself freely and creating as he goes along. I would sign up to you, but as you can see, there are better teachers on the market. Also, I love the way you take my words out of context, with is pretty immature for someone of your age (late 40's So keep using my words to your advantage, but know that all your doing is proving me right

R0B,

I don't think people are making conclusions just from this post. We've read other posts like this from ewiss.

In fact,



so i guess i wasn't the first one to suggest that

also from the same person

If you go to the main piano forum page, ROB, you can click on the "Are you a piano industry professional?" thread stickied at the top. It's actually a PW rule that if you are a piano industry professional (and Frank explicitly includes teachers in the list of occupations covered by this rule), you are *required* to declare your affiliation in your signature line, as Ed is doing.

I think either this or the AB forum would be appropriate places for Ed to have started this thread.

To ROB; I didn't want to argue with him, I was just giving him some constructive criticism, and he took it personal. I like your playing and the format of your site, so you have nothing to be worried about, and you seem to be mainly interested in the well being of your students.

To Ed; Take a look at ROB's site http://www.learn2playmusic.com/ you could learn a thing or two

Thanks Etcetra, and Monica, for putting me straight.
I am a relatively 'new kid on the block' here, and don't know the past history of other members.
I just took the OP at face value, and was suprised at the reaction.

Regards,
Rob

My purpose in posting here was not to cause so much stress and strain. If I offended anyone, I apologize. Such was not my intent.

I'm a teacher who is trying to turn people on to the New Age style of piano playing. I know not everyone likes it and perhaps I posted in the wrong place.

I'll know better from now on.

I really find it offensive that etcetra and YadielOmar seem to think that beginners in a particular style aren't welcome in this forum - and that is the implication when the two of them keep insisting that a video aimed at beginners shouldn't be posted here. Whether I agree or not with ed's posting history really has nothing to do with it - this is the *non-classical* forum, not the *if you're addressing beginners go somewhere else* forum. I'm a regular poster in the ABF, and relatively new at improvisation. I'm not a new age stylist, but I see no reason why I shouldn't come to the non-classical forum for hints on improvisation. I've read *many* helpful posts in this forum - posts that are addressed to beginners. There's a whole thread at this very minute in which a new improvisor has posted videos and is being given suggestions by more experienced posters. Should the new improvisor have not posted in the non-classical forum precisely because he's a beginner at improvising?

And etcetra keeps saying that because "he/she" is more advanced that posts directed at beginners should be somewhere else. I don't agree. The non-classical forum isn't just for people at etcetra's skill level, whatever that may be. And I don't really think etcetra and YadielOmar are the arbitrators on what skill level one has to be addressing in order to post here.

If a post addressed to beginners doesn't interest you, just click away from it and go to a thread that does. If you're not willing to make suggestions to beginners, don't. But IMHO it's really not up to you to say that no one else can. Whether or not beginners and those who are addressing them are offensive to you if they're posting in this forum is a separate issue from whether or not you like ed's posts, and it's an issue I disagree with you heartily on.

Cathy

jotour,

i think someone posting a video for suggestion is very different than whats happening here. and apparently someone else in another post made similar comments so I am sure its not just me or yadielOmar. It's not that he is not welcome to post in non-classical thread or that its offensive, but that it might be more helpful/relevant in Adult beginner forum.

ed,

maybe we're confused because some of the material had appearance "of being a self promotion". i am sorry if I misunderstood your intent.