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Sorry, etcetra, but you're confusing the issues. Quite obviously you don't like ed's posts because *you* think he might have violated forum rules, or perhaps you don't like something else he's done. I'm with ed - if that's really what you think the problem is, take it to the moderators or to Frank. But you've made it quite clear that the fact that it was aimed at beginners made it not appropriate here, or that maybe it's "more relevant" in the ABF, and that is a separate issue. Do you think all the "beginners" in the ABF are interested in improvising? They're all interested in new age music? They're more likely to excuse someone that you think is misusing the forum? Just what does make it more relevant there? For that matter, do you think all the folks who post in the ABF are beginners? Try listening to some of the recitals sometime. Just why is "someone posting a video for suggestion" ok, but someone posting something addressing beginners not ok? And that is a separate issue from whether or not you think ed's posts "might" be against forum rules. And you have made it pretty clear that you think ed's videos might be ok if only they were in the ABF. And I disagree.
Have you checked that book on How to Play Stride Piano that I suggested? Perhaps that is more appropriate to your level of playing.
Cathy
Cathy Perhaps "more music" is always the answer, no matter what the question might be! - Qwerty53
again its not about what is okay and what isn't okay. I did not use the word "appropriate"
i was reading comments posted on the thread, and most of the comments were about 1) how this teaching method was ineffective 2) people defending the value his method, and how it may be helpful to "others", or 3)suggestion to expand on his ideas. I have not read many response saying that watching this was helpful 'learning experience' for them. So I felt like this material is reaching the wrong audience.
It's like me posting a thread on coltrane changes on classical forum. Most likely someone will tell me that this post will be better off at a non-classical forum where the information may be more relevant.
i agree that whether what ed does violate the forum rule is separate issue, and I am addressing that separately..and it would have been better off to go directly to the moderator instead of having this long winded discussion.
but assuming that it isn't i thought this post might get more positive response in the adult beginner forum which ed even said is who its mainly intended for.
Well I have nothing to apologize for, now if you're busy paying attention to Ed's comment which distort the message I'm saying that's your problem. It's not about levels, he started this post with a blatant sales pitch that was cheesier than a mouse's savings account and when jw7480 said it didn't go anywhere, he replied fairly defensively, instead of explaining calmly that that's the idea of New Age music. Jotur, if you want a example of basic modal improvisation which is the basis of New Age music then here's a link
Yeah, it's a trumpet and it's jazz, but it shows you step by step how modal improv works. Add this to what he explained in the beginning and you'll be on your way to improvising. See, get to know me before you judge me. And if you use this phrase against me, remember I'm helping you for free when I can easily withhold this info. I really hope this helps you on improve jotur
I *am* on my way to improvising I know quite a bit about modes because I play modal music regularly I said specifically in my post that I don't play new age music I do understand, however, that I can learn from people who play styles of music which I don't play If you knew me you'd know that I regularly learn from people who play other instruments and what they do with those instruments I am not sure what, in your post above, I can learn about you other than that you think that particular youtube video is valuable for folks learning to improvise, and that you think there was a blatant sales pitch in the original post, which you did not bother to quote. So it's entirely possible that others didn't see it that way Since you are also claiming that, and I quote, "it's not about levels", then I really don't see what your comment in your post #1186147, and I quote, "And all of this could have been avoided, next time post in the Adult beginner forum." was about
But that's just me
Cathy
Cathy Perhaps "more music" is always the answer, no matter what the question might be! - Qwerty53
etcetra - it seeems to me you're basically a good guy. But I will have to say that I don't think anyone is responsible for a thread they've started taking a different direction than they intended. And I don't think this thread was posted in order to elicit comments on the teaching method. The fact that those were the first comments isn't the OP's responsibility. Did he react defensively to the first comment that the music didn't "go anywhere?" Maybe. But this thread went south before the folks for whom it was at least nominally intended had a chance to respond, as do many threads, actually. So - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree - I think the right audience may well have gravitated to this thread had the negative folks not gotten here first. Oh well. That's kind of life on the forums. I just don't think that the fact that the teaching-method disagreements got posted first is evidence that this forum is the wrong audience.
But I'll continue to read your posts with interest - I do like yor enthusiasm.
Cathy
Cathy Perhaps "more music" is always the answer, no matter what the question might be! - Qwerty53
Hahaha, nice... I got burned still just in case anyone has any doubts on what to do with the right hand and doesn't know that new age is modal then that's a good resource! Sorry I came off as rude, just got a little worked up and didn't think straight. Well, I agree with you on learning from everyone, and as I said 3 times before
HE HAS SOME GOOD IDEAS, JUST NOT WORTH THE ASKING PRICE.
There's other concepts that are tied with this that might confuse a beginner and I speak from experience. I wasn't ripping on him, I was just suggesting he should explain that new age is mostly modal.
Sales pitch;
So many students would just love to sit down at the piano and play. Yet these same students think you need years upon years of study to improvise successfully.
But that's where they're wrong! What If I was to show you a simple technique that will have you improvising in no time at all. Would that be something you might be interested in? If you answered yes, listen, because what I'm about to share with you will have you creating a rich full sound at the keyboard.
The technique I'm referring to is called the ostinato pattern.
It's not difficult. All you have to do is get the pattern down in your left hand. Then, you simply "jump in" with the right to improvise your own unique melody. A great example of this is in the video "Images of Yosemite" available below.
The problem students sometimes have is maintaining the pattern in the left hand. The reason for this is usually the same - they are playing too fast! There's no reason to. After all, the goal is for you to create your own music. And music is what we want. To get it, you need to SLOW DOWN at first until the pattern is firmly established. Then you add in your own improvised melody.
The music in the above video contains 2 chords. That's it! Just 2 chords and we have all we need to begin our improvisation.
No need to make it any more complicated than that. In fact, problems arise when students try to make something more than what they're ready for. My advice? Slow down, take your time, and you'll be well on your way to successful improvisation.
In Bold "HE HAS SOME GOOD IDEAS, JUST NOT WORTH THE ASKING PRICE" I think you're cool and have a good insight in your comments, and sorry again for coming off as rude, not my intention
thanks, a lot of what i've said is based on my previous experiences.. so I do admit that while part of me wants to be supportive of what is happening, i feel ambivalent because of some of the remark made about classical music and other things.
when a piano teacher or a trained musician sees this, the comment is usually going to be about 'constructive' criticism of the method, which is more or less what ed is getting right now.
just imagine if i posted a thread about 'colrtane changes' if i present it as a student asking question, i will get experts who are willing to explain to me what they are (hopefully), but if i just post it as a teaching material it would not be very effective.. the problem is no one asked for that information and its going to be very vague as to who its going to help. Chances are i will be getting response from people who already know the stuff... i guess in that sense, stuff like this gets evaluated just like when people post youtube recording on the forum
I'm getting complaints about this thread. If anyone thinks the thread is not appropriate, breaks forum rules, etc., you should send a message to the moderators. The complaints I'm getting is about the OT discussion of whether the thread is appropriate or not. I don't see a problem with the topic of tis thread, so please get back on topic, or I will have to close it.
What is the world is the "non-classical forum" for if it's not for non classical threads?
Etc, Yadiel, and Betty, you need to get a life. Just because someone is promoting something that you're not in to, doesn't warrant this type of reaction. Yadiel, who asked you if you liked Ed's cd's, lessons and videos? Betty, who asked you what to teach, promote and share on this site? Maybe you three should start your own website, "Play Like Us And If You're Not Like Us, You're Not Welcome" Yeah, do it and go away already with your stupid jealousy.
What is the world is the "non-classical forum" for if it's not for non classical threads?
Etc, Yadiel, and Betty, you need to get a life. Just because someone is promoting something that you're not in to, doesn't warrant this type of reaction. Yadiel, who asked you if you liked Ed's cd's, lessons and videos? Betty, who asked you what to teach, promote and share on this site? Maybe you three should start your own website, "Play Like Us And If You're Not Like Us, You're Not Welcome" Yeah, do it and go away already with your stupid jealousy.
Hahaha, nice one! c'mon don't get all worked up and chillax. We gave some suggestions, it got a little heated ed's cool about it, I was a beginner too! It's nothing personal, were just presenting a contrasting point for people to have more than one point of view, that's all.
The mod is right, back to topic... Good idea, great for beginners, thanks Edwiess I have nothing to add because I am not as open-minded and creative as you are... I said everything I needed to say
its funny I just remembered ed went by a different name.. no wonder this post looked very familiar....
this quote pretty much sums up my point of view
Originally Posted by JerryG
A suggestion for you Quiescen, your "helpful emails" are likely to have the reverse effect on your business. People on this forum might get the impression that you are not here to offer helpful suggestions but rather for pecuniary gain. You are likely to send the wrong message.
There have been several responses to your posts indicating the perceived nature of your your posts as nothing more than trying to advertise on a forum that prohibits advertising.
You sound like you may have something to offer those in search of what you teach, but you might want to consider that you seem to be generating negative advertising here.
Just my opinion but something you might think about.
As a beginner who has decided to look into blues and improvisation, I have only recently dipped into this sub forum. I have never heard of an ostinato pattern. I like the relative simplicity of the example posted. K.I.S.S works for me.
So many students would just love to sit down at the piano and play. Yet these same students think you need years upon years of study to improvise successfully.
But that's where they're wrong! What If I was to show you a simple technique that will have you improvising in no time at all. Would that be something you might be interested in? If you answered yes, listen, because what I'm about to share with you will have you creating a rich full sound at the keyboard.
The technique I'm referring to is called the ostinato pattern.
It's not difficult. All you have to do is get the pattern down in your left hand. Then, you simply "jump in" with the right to improvise your own unique melody. A great example of this is in the video "Images of Yosemite" available below.
The problem students sometimes have is maintaining the pattern in the left hand. The reason for this is usually the same - they are playing too fast! There's no reason to. After all, the goal is for you to create your own music. And music is what we want. To get it, you need to SLOW DOWN at first until the pattern is firmly established. Then you add in your own improvised melody.
The music in the above video contains 2 chords. That's it! Just 2 chords and we have all we need to begin our improvisation.
No need to make it any more complicated than that. In fact, problems arise when students try to make something more than what they're ready for. My advice? Slow down, take your time, and you'll be well on your way to successful improvisation.
This is actually very nice, and nicely played. My impressions about it theoretically is that stylistically, it's right out of very early, pre-Bach-Vivaldi-Handel, Renaissance period. It has the sound of Palestrina and other modal-madrigal compositions very typical of that period, the same type of accompaniament, ornamentation, and modal melodic material.
As a beginner who has decided to look into blues and improvisation, I have only recently dipped into this sub forum. I have never heard of an ostinato pattern. I like the relative simplicity of the example posted. K.I.S.S works for me.
99% of all blues and R&B piano left hand configurations are ostinatos!
When I first started doing (what little) improv I do, it was adding bass note runs in the left hand. So mostly I just made sure I landed on the tonic of the chord on the first beat of the measure When I started doing improvs as accompaniment to English country dance music - Purcell, early Baroque pieces - I would keep the left hand on block chords, which is probably the simplest ostinato, and keep the right hand essentially on the chord, and just wiggle my RH fingers rhythmically, essentially. But it added a nice little sort of ornament sounding thing behind the melody players, and gave me some confidence that I could "make things up". A very similar technique can be really effective under the melodies of waltzes, or doing little runs from chord to chord in either hand.
And I think the advice to "slow down" when you're first learning is right on. I get sort of discouraged sometimes that I can't always do it at speed (I play for contra dances, and the tempos can be sort of breakneck), but when it turns out I *can* do it slower it gives me hope.
I'm working on doing some more adventurous improvs in a honky-tonk style now, and it's a blast.
Cathy
Cathy Perhaps "more music" is always the answer, no matter what the question might be! - Qwerty53
BJones, thank you for that snippet of information. I readily admit to being a "musical illiterate". I'm adding terms to my vocabulary as I come across them rather than actively seek them out, lest I become overwhelmed!
Cathy, thanks for those ideas. When faced with my first improvisation task I froze. A simple whole note shell progression LH and the first 5 notes of the Cmaj blues scale RH. I have thawed a little now but suspect my efforts are still pretty risible. What it hammered home was the need to have the LH pattern secure under my fingers. I thought practicing the same simple patterns over and over would be boring, but oddly it isn't.With Alfred I developed the tendency to think "that will do" and moved on.
Glad you are having a blast, that's what its about IMO. I'm fizzling but have no intention of "fizzling out".
its funny I just remembered ed went by a different name.. no wonder this post looked very familiar....
this quote pretty much sums up my point of view
Originally Posted by JerryG
A suggestion for you Quiescen, your "helpful emails" are likely to have the reverse effect on your business. People on this forum might get the impression that you are not here to offer helpful suggestions but rather for pecuniary gain. You are likely to send the wrong message.
There have been several responses to your posts indicating the perceived nature of your your posts as nothing more than trying to advertise on a forum that prohibits advertising.
You sound like you may have something to offer those in search of what you teach, but you might want to consider that you seem to be generating negative advertising here.
Just my opinion but something you might think about.
I have resisted the urge to jump in on this thread and I know that the moderator Phlebas has cautioned us to stay on topic. However, I am concerned by the self-serving nature of eweiss/quiescence's threads, this one included, but especially a couple of recent ones he started in the "In the News" sub forum. That forum is for posting piano/related articles from newspapers, magazines, and the web. And yet eweiss uses it as an opportunity to publish his own (unpublished) press releases, blatantly advertising his own services. He is surely pushing the envelope of what is considered permissible here. Unfortunately, the "In the News" forum has no moderator so I cannot report it to anyone but it all fits in the self-serving nature of Ed's posts, first as quiescence and now as eweiss. It is not my desire to attack him but we must call a spade a spade. Here, have a look at these and tell me if this is not advertising: eweiss online lessons eweiss cures stress quiescen online lessons
His advertising and the way he demeans classical pianists (calling them mere "typists") moved me to post this. He needs to stop pushing his services and show some respect to all forms of music.
Last edited by jazzyprof; 04/26/0902:15 PM.
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I know quite a bit about modes because I play modal music regularly 
still just in case anyone has any doubts on what to do with the right hand and doesn't know that new age is modal then that's a good resource! Sorry I came off as rude, just got a little worked up and didn't think straight. Well, I agree with you on learning from everyone, and as I said 3 times before 
