I'm in an experimental music class, and my professor suggested that I might look into detuning piano trichords so that each pin is a different note. This way, you could play a full triad with just one key.

I was wondering what the best way to go about this without causing any damage to the piano would be. My thought was that I should only loosen the strings, not tighten them, to avoid breaking a string. I was wondering how far flat I could loosen a tuning pin without damaging it. Ideally, I should be able to bring the tuning back to normal after detuning it for an experimental music piece.

Now, I know this idea might sound unthinkable to some of you piano technicians, but just be glad that I'm asking for advice on how to do it without hurting the piano, rather than just brazenly going at it.

You should keep in mind that as you lower the tension on some strings, the other un-detuned strings will have a tendency to increase in tension.

If i understand how you are going to tune the trichords as triads, you will be tuning them in first inversion? That's going to drop the tension significantly on those strings.

The safest course may be to have a piano tuner do this for you under your instructions.

The piano may need to be tuned this way more than once before it stabilizes.

Not a tech but I can tell you that it won't seem to hurt to drop the tension on two of the wires BUT, look close at what you are doing. Every time you tension a wire around a pin, it must take a hard turn. It is avery short distance that takes the brunt of this . There are only so many times you can do this before you weaken the wire and set it up for breakage. My experience comes from piddling with landfill pianos that have one or more pins that must be frequently tightened. Get a landfill piano and have a go. Better yet, have a go at the profesor's piano.

You will probably get a better answer from an experienced tech.

James

And, I would add, on the understanding that you hold the responsibility for anything that goes wrong with the piano as well as the additional work that will be needed to bring it back to pitch. This could include lifting coils, seating and leveling the strings and several tunings to stabilize the piano again, as Joe said.

This kind of experiment should not be conducted on a recital piano.

Let us know how it works out...

You could try this using a sampling digital piano, and then there is no risk. However, keep in mind that this is not something which is particular revolutionary. Organs have done this for centuries. Many of them have quint and terce stops.

In fact, I read or heard "somewhere" that The Doors did something similar to a piano...
Tuning one string per note one octave low.

No, I don't think I can find a citation for you. So, quote this at your own risk

You might find it here some where in the history Joe........and great tunes too while your at it....

http://www.thedoors.com/

Hey Dan,

Thanks for the link!

I think I'll do it the lazy man's way...
I see their forum's down. When it's back up, I'll just make a post. I'll bet the loyal Doors fans there know more than I'll ever know about this.

-Joe

If you take the next step and really try this - use a good quality tuning hammer that fits the pin.
Pick your note carefully so that the right wire of the note is the highest pitch of the triad - you will avoid breaking a string. The other two wires can be tuned to the notes on the piano that make up the lower notes of the triad and it should be ok. It will be very unstable and the tone will change for the worse.
Maybe the professor would demonstrate?

The best type of piano to try this on is one with individually tied strings at the hitch pin, such as some of the Kohler and Campbell grands.

I think your professor is an educated idiot.

The Lowery “Genie” organ has this feature, where you push a button and an entire chord is played.

I would not do this to a trichord, especially if it does not have individual hitch pins. When having that much difference in the srting’s tension, it is liable to slip around the hitch pin and cause the bend of the string that was at a bridge pin to move to the speaking portion and cause a permanent false beat. DAMHIK.

Somebody is nuts!

If I understand correctly, you want to make a triad out of a unison? So, you will be dropping one string, on say, C4, down to G3? So far, so good, though that G will be so loose it will produce an entirely different spectrum of overtones than the remaining C, and will allow any string it is sharing with to fall.
NOw, however, you need to pull another string up to E. this will not work. Most scales are such that the string will break at a minor 3rd above its pitch.
You can't get a triad without some extreme looseness,which may require dropping the entire piano by 300 cents, then trying to come up on the required strings. $ounds like money to a tech...
Regards,

A major third is 400 cents. A fourth is 500. A fifth is 700.

Another way of doing this is to prepare the piano. By placing mutes at the proper point on the strings, you can force them into different modes, which will produce a harmonic of a fifth or a third.

This exercise sounds like the idea of someone who may know something about music, but has no idea of the technical aspects of tuning the piano. It is indeed a "nutty" idea. Why not bring this idea to fruition by demonstrating it on a jig of some type. What has me kind of stratching my head is, what is the purpose? Experimental music? What is so experimental about this? Sounds me to like an idea a 12 year old would come up with.

Thanks for the tips, everyone. My final project involved tuning a couple pins down a minor third to get "more notes" out of them. (I didn't want to tune down any more than a minor third.) I also detuned a couple pins slightly to get the "beats" effect out of the frequencies.

Our department has a piano designated for preparation, since it's a piano nobody cares about. So no worries there, although after the piece I tuned the piano back to normal and it sounded "OK". Not perfect, I'm very sure, but good enough for what it's used for since it's not a recital piano.

And Ron, anything out of the ordinary can count as "experimental." The point is that one experiments with an idea, and if the results are good, you carry the idea further, and if it doesn't work out, you try something else. Modern instruments would not exist at all without the experimental tradition. This experiment was a relative success in that it allowed me to play "bigger chords" with less fingers, but it's not an idea I'm likely to carry further since this ability isn't that big a deal.