SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
New Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad 125) Music Teacher's Helper
Forum Stats
69875 Members
40 Forums
143480 Topics
2075606 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New Composer, Solo Piano Track
by musicmad
05/23/13 08:06 AM
Thinking about buying a roland HP505 but ...
by boisso
05/23/13 06:55 AM
ii - V - I proggression
by john f
05/23/13 06:21 AM
Liberace
by Alex
05/23/13 03:52 AM
Your suggestion for different rhythms for hand development
by JosephAC
05/23/13 02:20 AM
Topic Options
#1177763 - 04/10/09 09:49 AM Need help with 2-Part Invention
A. Lively Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
I'm attempting to write a 2-part invention in the style of J.S. Bach.

I've written the motive and counter motive, but before I move on I want to make sure I've made a solid foundation to build on.

Take a look at the screenshot below:



M.1-2 is the motive, M.3-4 has the counter-motive on top, and the motive in the left hand. M.5-6 switches the two.

You can listen to what I've got so far on YouTube:

2-Part Invention in D Major

I've tried my best to eliminate parallel/direct fifths, fourths, and octaves, and scrubbed it of the more dissonant sonorities.

The main rule I'm consciously breaking is in the motive (M.2, beats 2-3), where I outline a diminished triad.

Any counterpoint-trained folks care to tell me what I'm missing?

I will say that this is harder than I remember it, it seems like whenever I make a change to avoid breaking one rule, I end up breaking something else! It sometimes feels more like filling in a sudoku puzzle than making music.

Thanks for your help.


Edited by A. Lively (04/10/09 10:01 AM)

Top
Piano & Music Acc. / Sheet Music


Sheet Music Plus Homepage
#1178067 - 04/10/09 04:57 PM Re: Need help with 2-Part Invention [Re: A. Lively]
Harmosis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 308
Loc: California
I would suggest you first decide what form you're going to use - are you going for a strict canon, just motivic manipulation, something fugal, binary, etc.

Top
#1178110 - 04/10/09 06:59 PM Re: Need help with 2-Part Invention [Re: Harmosis]
A. Lively Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
Hmm... could you elaborate on those items? I wasn't aware I had a choice; are there different kinds of 2-part inventions? I'm pretty much trying to copy what Bach did.

I've taken most of my cues from my old college music theory book (Benward and Saker Volume II).

Top
#1178202 - 04/10/09 10:47 PM Re: Need help with 2-Part Invention [Re: A. Lively]
Morodiene Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 8726
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I would try to play around with different motives. What can you do with your subject (the first 2 bars or so)? Try changing the mood (go to minor), different articulations, embellishing, making the subject twice as long (augmentation) or twice a short (diminution), doing it backwards (retrograde), or making it upside down (inversion), or any combination of the above!

Also, you can take little parts of what you have in your subject and just play around with those. Remember to make sequences, so for example, if your motive was C-D-E, you could make a sequence then of D-E-F, then E-F-G. Generally sequences are in threes, with a slight change to the third to get you onto the next idea.

You've got plenty there to play with. Remember that in Baroque music, every line is important. Sing each line (LH & RH) to make sure it makes sense on its own as well as with the other hand. Let us know when you get more of it done!
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com

Top
#1178265 - 04/11/09 01:04 AM Re: Need help with 2-Part Invention [Re: A. Lively]
Harmosis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 308
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: A. Lively
Hmm... could you elaborate on those items? I wasn't aware I had a choice; are there different kinds of 2-part inventions? I'm pretty much trying to copy what Bach did.


I'm just saying that you should have a strategy for the overall form. For example, Bach's Invention No. 6 is in binary form, No. 8 is canonic, No. 10 is more fugal, etc. The procedural elements that Morodiene has addressed are also important.

Speaking specifically to what you have thus far, I would expect a modulation to the dominant after establishing the subject.

Top
#1188672 - 04/27/09 09:17 PM Re: Need help with 2-Part Invention [Re: Harmosis]
A. Lively Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
I've done some additional work on the piece:

PDF Sheet Music

MP3 File

It now contains the following sections:

- Motive and counter-motive in D Major
- Transition to A Major
- Motive and Counter Motive in A Major
- Transition to E Minor

If you see any glaring problems in the piece so far, let me know.

I've mostly been getting my musical form ideas from Bach's 2-part inventions No. 8 (F-Major) and No. 13. (A-Minor).

At this point in some of the Bach inventions I've analyzed, they go into a diminished-chord heavy transition section that eventually leads back to the tonic key. This is the section where Bach usually mixes things up with more inversions and more "foreign" material before coming back to the familiar.

I'll put another post up once I get further with that!


Edited by A. Lively (04/27/09 09:26 PM)

Top



Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Make Music NY Needs 175 Keyboard Players
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
Piano Books
-------------------
panic


(ad) Dampp Chaser
Piano Lifesaver
(ad) Pitch Improver
Ear training - pitchimprover.com
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Who's Online
159 registered (36251, Allan W., AldenH, Al LaPorte, Allard, 67 invisible), 1173 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ads by Google)



 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |
 
piano supplies piano accessories PianoSupplies.com is a division of Piano World


Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| Del.icio.us |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2013 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission