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#1189175 - 04/28/09 03:15 PM I'm hearing music very differently than I used to
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Or rather what I pay attention to is very different.

When i used to listen to jazz it was all about all the crazy ideas that was happening rhythmically and harmonically.. and chops... but nowdays my focus is so different, sometimes I can enjoy a really simple solo for its sound.. how someone is putting different accent and character into each notes. I also pay more attention to feel and whether the music grooves or not.

It's also having a big impact on how I teach.. I am helping my friends jazz group out and I give advice on them. i tell them how important it is to make the rhythm feel good. I also ask them about the title of the piece and what the song means, and how important it is to play its meaning... and I point out details like how so and so was cresendoing and how the rhythm section should follow that. I guess in that sense I am paying more attention to the music than the mechanics.

In some ways a lot of this goes against how i was taught.. my teachers taught scales and different patterns, and I am starting to dislike that method.. I would rather have my students transcribe miles' davis solo from kind of blue and have them pay attention to how miles repeats and develops his ideas, and how he uses different extension for different color and texture.. i want them to think music right away rather than getting caught up in mechanics. I think what I missed the most in education was this idea that music is supposed to communicate something.. the scales, and patterns became an end in itself, and people lost in touch with what it was all about.

Has anyone here went through similar transformation in the way you listen to music, and what you pay attention to? in some ways i feel like I understand music.. at least much better than I used to. its strange, because my awareness of music is so different now, and I understand stuff that i never used to.. like wayne shorter's solos for example.

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#1189323 - 04/28/09 06:48 PM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: etcetra]
Pianos_N_Cheezecake Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 150
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Yeahhhhhhh, man. That's all I gotta say.

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#1189514 - 04/28/09 11:46 PM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: Pianos_N_Cheezecake]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
smile

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#1190832 - 04/30/09 07:45 PM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: etcetra]
1RC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 497
Loc: Alberta
From back when I played guitar, I went about it in a similar way to you etc - endlessly drilling chops, keys, harmonies (not so much rhythm though)... Basically all sorts of patterns, mechanical and theoretical ideas. I became a pretty decent noodler.

Then one day I came across more musical ideas: playing with themes and motifs, color and effect, giving structure and direction to my solos. That's when I started getting some flattering compliments.

...Now, I approach from a different perspective of being a piano rookie. I can hardly improvise, much of the technical aspects just aren't easy enough for me. So, I can get into a flow of ideas and imagine how I'd like to develop a solo, but the fingers aren't quite there yet.

My thought is - we need enough of both. The musical imagination is inaudible if we can't bring it to reality. I imagine that in certain stages of a students development they will be better suited to mechanical aspects, and other stages to a more musical focus... So long as we get around to balancing them out at some point!

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#1190937 - 04/30/09 11:14 PM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: 1RC]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
1RC,

I agree that you need balance. Unfortunately schools tend to emphasize too much on the technical stuff... I think that even if you are starting out you should have the musical stuff in mind when you practice. its important to appreciate those things in recordings even if you can't do them. After all you are playing music.

I think musicality becomes a much bigger issue when you are playing more free/broken time with the rhythm section, because you really have to listen to each other to compliment what's going on. I had to tell this drummer how to things like filling in space when I'm playing less, or how to set up different parts of the song and provide different texture..for drummers free playing really tests their musicality, and if you play with a very musical drummer, its absolute heaven smile

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#1190939 - 04/30/09 11:15 PM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: 1RC]
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
Rhythm and feeling. Don't be a touch-typist. Anyone (at least, most anyone) can do that.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, but I'm going to post it anyway. I shudder to think how many psychologically weak people have been ruined by teachers.

Jessica
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"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
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#1191208 - 05/01/09 11:55 AM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: etcetra]
majones Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/07
Posts: 331
Loc: Deep East Texas Piney Woods
Originally Posted By: etcetra
.. i want them to think music right away rather than getting caught up in mechanics. I think what I missed the most in education was this idea that music is supposed to communicate something.. the scales, and patterns became an end in itself, and people lost in touch with what it was all about.

How to play comes first (look what I can do), then theory, then much later emotion. But, a good instructor could do some of this from the very first. It'll have to be fed with a baby spoon, but, you make a good point.

Malcolm


Edited by majones (05/01/09 11:58 AM)

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#1191223 - 05/01/09 12:18 PM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: 1RC]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5449
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: 1RC
My thought is - we need enough of both. The musical imagination is inaudible if we can't bring it to reality. I imagine that in certain stages of a students development they will be better suited to mechanical aspects, and other stages to a more musical focus... So long as we get around to balancing them out at some point!


+1 for sure.

I also agree with etcetra - the earlier the better. I had some technical skills that were fairly advanced after 2 years of lessons, but played no music at all frown I'm fairly sure even chopsticks can be played with verve and abandon smile

Cathy
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#1191392 - 05/01/09 05:29 PM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: jotur]
JazzPianoEducator Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 203
Loc: Denver, CO
I think it all depends on the student. For myself, I've noticed that I will come back to a piece, song or album with completely different ears after spending time immersing myself in a different style or genre. To me this is the coolest part about learning jazz or any style of music. It's a great feeling to come back to a song you used to listen to and to and later understand/appreciate it on an entirely different level. I think you'll find this happens to you more and more through the years...
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#1191396 - 05/01/09 05:36 PM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: JazzPianoEducator]
meltr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 5
well for me everytime i start to learn a new piece i always wonder how it was composed so i could pick up some techniques.

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#1192232 - 05/03/09 12:46 AM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: meltr]
Glock fan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Texas
I am an amateur playing for fun, and it takes all my skill and concentration just to hack out the right notes most of the time. Feelings and stuff would be great, but I just can't keep that many balls in the air.

When I was a kid taking lessons, I got bothered and discouraged by that. But now I know how to admire and enjoy real musicians, and still have a great time mangling ragtime tunes on my own. It's all good.

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#1192234 - 05/03/09 12:48 AM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: meltr]
Pianos_N_Cheezecake Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 150
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Educator... I like you. You're a smart guy. You're TOTALLY right on that... at least for me anyways. When I leave something for a long time and come back to it, I approach it completely different then the way I did before. I guess that's because I keep learning new tools, new ideas, and when I come to a tune I haven't played in a while, I automatically start filtering through and using those new tools.

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#1192250 - 05/03/09 01:21 AM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: Pianos_N_Cheezecake]
JazzPianoEducator Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 203
Loc: Denver, CO
Thanks:)

The concept itself has taught me to approach all music with much more of an open mind. I really don't understand those who say 'i hate rap' or 'i hate country' or 'i hate classical' etc. For me, genres that I don't enjoy initially i leave room that I'll appreciate them on some other level down the road. It has happened to me time and again so I've learned to be ready for it...
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#1192259 - 05/03/09 01:36 AM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: JazzPianoEducator]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
I remember learning sonata form in my twenties. I couldn't believe it . I was wacked! I went home and listened to everything again. Believe it or not my life kinda changed around.
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1192293 - 05/03/09 02:38 AM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: keyboardklutz]
swingal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 1094
Loc: England
In this topic I see a shortage of musical terms like rhythm, beat and runs.Jazz is comprised of those features as the basic feeling and impulse to bring alive the meaning. The other alternative is to use another term than jazz. New Age ?

swingal

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#1192441 - 05/03/09 11:18 AM Re: I'm hearing music very differently than I used to [Re: swingal]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Jazzpianoeducator,

I totally agree with your point.. I was listening to Bill Evan's village vanguard CD, and listening to it was a completely different experience. Back then I paid more attention to Bill's ideas or what he is doing rhythmically, but lately I am paying more attention to what Scott Lafarro is doing... i guess its like I am listening more for the 'whole' picture than the details.

I do try to keep on open mind to all music too, i think the problem is that when you start out, you are so preoccupied with certain aspect of music.. like lines/technique that you overlook other aspect of music. It's easy to overlook funk, R&B and rap if you are just looking for harmonic complexity. Having a groove like George Duke is an art in itself.

swingal,

I am not sure what you are trying to say.. are you being sarcastic? why do jazz post necessary have use those words? and why new age?

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