Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Piano

No la.
Economic crisis, then the money all dump into my tertiary education cost already. Now I don't even dare to ask my dad for an upright la..
Haha..

Wow! I learn something new everyday! The manufacturing arm of the business seems to be Musical Products Sdn Bhd, located in Lahat, Perak.

Has anybody actually played on these pianos? At that price they have to be decent surely!

You can sideline earn some income being a piano consultant ... hehehe (as i read you give lots of interesting advance advice) hoho hehe bong bong just kidding ok?
Well, it's good that you are realistic, tahan abit more with your exsiting piano. One day i'm sure you'll be an engineer and buy your dream piano. Hopefully by that time no others things distract you like, girls, cars, RC hobby plane ... hehehe Cheers

Thanks Digitus,

If Cramer = Kemble, which is almost equivalent to a Yamaha (except maybe for the cabinetry) then the difference I heard could be mostly attributed to the soundboard.

Question is whether there's a real difference and is it worth paying for. Its hard to know what the equivalent Yamaha model is with the lack of information, which I believe is a way for Yamaha-Kemble to segment their customers with different brands and price points of the same thing.

Haha...piano won't cause death lah...unless ur baby go lick the bench, the cabinet and the keys which is poisonous to do so...

So u coming to Singapore for your tertiary education? Or staying in M'sia? Or going out of SEA region? Or still thinking? (Yeah, I KPO!)

hey guys. sorry for being rude. I finally visited the piano factory in Malaysia manufactured for 30 years! I was briefed with the introduction and the process on how a piano actually made in Ipoh. It is true about musical products that i am proudly amazed Malaysia had its own piano factory. Just for you guys to check out the pianos, their showroom piano, Vienna music is in KL. Just for your info, all the piano are not only Challen. I manage to glance on Challen, C.Steinbert, Barratt & Robinson and Witton & Witton. I also realized that the Hoe family is the fourth generation in malaysia and singapore owns the name of Wagner piano sdn bhd (KL)(previously Union piano in singapore)Vienna Music (KL), Musical products (ipoh), Weng lee (ipoh), Wagner piano company (KL) and wagner music shop (Ipoh).

Based on the quality control on the piano market in SEA, I checked with some of the steinway tuner and he explained in detailed to me the problems. However you can refer to your tuner on technical problem, mettalic sound and key sticking. DOnt get me doubts, i am not critisizing anyone but i was showned and explained. Maybe it is my point of view based on facts and professional piano makers, piano tuners and piano manufacturers in Malaysia.

Just to let you know the prices in Musical products are not expensive. Come on an upright ranging from RM8,100 to RM16,800. The grand piano ranging from RM23,500 to RM 114,000.

Lastly i based my claims from facts and a huge network in the piano industry. Just PM me if you need more info.

Think Singapore got their dealers...you can try the pianos there bah...
http://musicalproducts.asiaep.com/mudealer.htm

Emmanuel Music House Pte. Ltd.
and
Sonare Music School

OOps i left the most important information. VIENNA MID YEAR SALE. As i was in the factory, Mr.Hoe mentioned that every year there is a mid year sale up to 50%. The dates and the prices are not published yet. He mentioned that it will be held in June or July.

Another variable could be the hammers, but there's no way to know for sure unless the manufacturer tells you.

Here's an interesting thing. The Tier 1 German manufacturer Sauter (I have one of their grands, the Omega 220) makes a range of uprights some of which are exactly the same strungbacks and actions, but have different cabinets. I have played three of them in close proximity to each other, and they ALL sound different. The basic Sauter signature 'voice' was umistakably there, but there were distinct tonal variations.

In the Cramer vs Yamaha situation, I guess you can safely assume that instruments from both brands are well-made. Then your selection should probably be made on the basis of the best sounding/playing instrument within your budget.

Yaya i know we don't eat pianos hehehe...
My china mei mei office coworker offered me a repackage candy, insdie taste totally like the rabbit brand. I just took one as i miss the chewy milky sweet for so long. So far my kidney still ok lah.

Saw the news about the exploding office chair??
I think the presurize hydraulic cylinder is faulty.

Ya, they repackaged the Rabbit...and got make sure no more melamine. Actually hor, is immediately when all these things happen that it is the safest to eat. Coz is the cleanest!

Pls lor..not as if Singapore dun have problems...like the Geylang rojak also mah. Other countries also have problems right?

Is just that the frequency of bad news from China is higher than other countries. But well, think about it, their population is so huge (abt 20% of the world's population is in China), and more than 260x of Singapore population. So for every case in Singapore, you will get 260 cases in China (same proportion right)? And China manufacture so many things, so even if only 0.001% of the things go wrong, it still large enough. (in terms of numbers) So sometimes, too big a population can be quite hard to "manage".

Oh...that one very gross...but piano bench no hydraulic function lah...

Thanks again. The tips here are really useful and independent which can't be found anywhere else.

Will go and listen to both instruments again...also hope to be able to listen to the Sauter uprights though they will definitely be way over my budget.

Hi, I have read thru some of the earlier posts and find this thread very informative with friendly ppl. So here am i with my first post in this forum.
I am acutally in the market shopping to a piano for my 6yo son who has been leaning piano for abt a yr now. Personally, i am have 2 left ears and 2 left hand.
Recently, i have walk into a 2nd dealer showroom and was told some interesting information. Jus wanna check if its really true.
The boss told me that a 20-30yo piano would sound better cos:
1. The sound board then was made of better quality wood with better curing process.
2. The QC is also not as good due to the influx of foreign labour as compared to older piano that are 100% japanese made.
3. A yamaha would fetch a better resale value over kawai (i wonder why)
Deep down i was thinking, technology must have caught up by alot in the 20-30years rite? and what about wear n tear? hmmm...confused...

So after 2 weeks of shopping, i am still back to square 1.

cya

1) I read somewhere that piano is a tension based instruments. Over the years, the soundboard would collapse because of the stress coming from the strings…err.. 20 tons? Overtime, piano will no longer sound musically plus wear and tears too. Therefore, older piano will never be better than new piano. On the other hand, it is true there are instrument that gets better when as it ages. i.e. guitar or violin. I was told that because of a "post" that helps the soundboard from collapse.

2) As far as QC, I believe piano makers improve overtime. I don’t think there is any single manufacturer would want to move backwards or degrade themselves. If there is one, I am sure the founder would have wasted so much time and money trying to create or invent something. I do believe that a new learner will have more mistakes but gradually learn through past experience to become better. That why the subject - History is so important.

3) This maybe true that Yamaha fetch a better resale value because they are "darn" popular. However the main important of buying a piano is because you like how the piano sound and play.

IMO, used piano dealers will tell ppl that used pianos are better. New piano dealers will tell ppl that new pianos are better. It is normal... what you sell you claim the product is good. what you dont sell you claim the product is inferior. Do you really think old things are better than new things? I wonder..... I can only think of the good side of older piano is that they are cheap ..... or maybe not if you bought a junk you might ended up paying the bills more than playing it... that would come to a price of a new piano, maybe....

Oh ya.... my guess..... Technology improvement pretty much applies to the action geometry design. Improve the speed and responsive of the action. As far as scaling design... I guess there is a limit into improving it. Maybe as a guide or steps but not turning a new scaling into miracles. I dont know if a piano scaling can be invented in just months?

Wear and tears are greater in older piano and require replacement so it can be regulated properly for better playing.

Regards.

I will based on my experienced of my petrof E1 and my yamaha U1. I always fancy of having nice pianos at home either for investment and decor. My petrof had no problem especially when i actually maintain it by having regular tuning and a dampp chaser install. The yamaha is a different story. I brought it over last year from an expatriate who is leaving the country for only RM1000. Yet i did not realized that the total repairs came up to RM3000. But the price i pay i felt very satisfied. When the repaired was done by one of the renowned man was strongly recommended from some of the welknown datos and tan sri. He managed to changed all the felts that was dried and worn off, new springs, NEW HAMMERHEAD, new tunning pins, new key covering, new strings, replace new casing and etc. In addition he also fix the soundboard that came out, he customised and patch it back. I asked him why the soundboard came out, he said that the soundboard came out because of the heater that melted the glue. anyway it is like brand new. i recently got one more old wagner piano from my customer for RM2000. Once i got it, i finally get the chance to take the pics of the wagner before i send to repair next week. Looks like another old to brand new piano.

Whereas to your question, to the modern technology. how reliable is it. do you know some parts are falling out due to using substite item rather than the original. Example What is the set back of using plastic on piano? Even 100 years of piano, what happen after 30 years. The newer piano is all fallen apart rather than the older times. FYI, Yamaha use local tropical wood as substitute in Indonesia.

Based on William Braid, materials used in piano construction shows:
Mapel wood- Hammer molding, shanks, hammer rail, dowels,
White wood- Body of case works
White pine- Key frames and keys

There is a huge list out of it. I will try to provide you guys more information as i am still in the verge of reading this book.

customised soundboard? patch soundboard back? you mean the ribs come unglue is it? If so, it is common in humid country(s). Wood expanded and glue weaken because the moisture contain in the wood increases. Wood are dried for several reasons. And one of the reason is glue works well at a certain MC.

heater melted the glue? if the heater can melt the glue the casing would have already torn into pieces. This is because most of the cabinet parts are glued to become a casing.

Oh sorry for the mistake. I mean the few sounboard loosen from the ribs. The other one that i mistyped is the loosen of the pinblock from the plate. Because of the reason that the heater, the pinblock was actually loosen out that cause the sound was way out. I realised as a consumer that piano in SEA really need to maintained but honestly by the price i pay i think it is worth it. Thanks Jay for clarifying my mistake. Until i take out the receipt to clarifyt that i actually mentioned it mistakely.

wow, information overload, i need to digest a bit first.

Of course, how can old piano be better than new? similar price range comparison.
But what we are looking for are the real GEMs
Those that are in showroom condition, little use only, at half price. But not everyone can accept the age, eventhough it still smell fresh. ahh. that's the difference. sound/condition:price ratio superb