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#557834 - 07/18/08 07:00 PM Incredible Child Pianist
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
I came across this seven year old young lady quite accidentally on You Tube. I found her fluidity, trills, control and comfort at the keyboard quite astounding for a child. See what you think:

Umi Garrett
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#557835 - 07/18/08 11:25 PM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1472
If I have to compare her to other prodigies, she is in the bottom. But if compared to normal kids, she is good (note, just good, not much better).

There are soooooo many incredible kids in Youtube. I wonder why she caught your attention?

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#557836 - 07/18/08 11:48 PM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8807
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by RonaldSteinway:
If I have to compare her to other prodigies, she is in the bottom.
Well I don't know that I would go quite that far. She certainly has talent and flair, but alas we've been so inundated with -admittedly better- youngsters on YouTube that it's difficult not to get unwillingly and uncomfortably jaded.

My dear, come back in a few years. Who knows where you'll be.

One wonders when some 9 or 10 year old finally cracks the immense -and unwieldy- musical demands of the Busoni or Bartok 2. Unlike Rachmaninov 3 -always open season for prodigies- the hallowed realms of the Busoni and Bartok remain safe, if only because those concertos don't particularly interest youngsters.
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Jason

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#557837 - 07/19/08 01:22 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
CherryCoke Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 531
Weird, there's another thread about a different young pianist from this same concert.

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#557838 - 07/19/08 01:42 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5403
Loc: Orange County, CA
It's the same kid.
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#557839 - 07/19/08 01:48 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
She's playing Rameau in this other clip.

Her playing is quite remarkable for a 7 year old, but as others have noted, there are 6 and 5 year olds on You Tube who are also impressive. And then of course, all the mature professional performers age 8 and higher have to be considered as well. Give Umi Garrett another 6 years and she will have a concerto performance on You Tube with full orchestra, and then will disappear for awhile in a conservatory.

Personally, I'm waiting for the breakthrough performance from a child in utero.

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#557840 - 07/19/08 09:39 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
RonaldSteinway asks:
There are soooooo many incredible kids in Youtube. I wonder why she caught your attention?[/b]

I think I enumerated the reasons quite specifically in my opening post. The fact that you could state that this kid is at "the bottom" implies you have seen many better seven year olds. Please do post their videos on this thread, as I am highly curious who YOU would put at the top, and why?
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#557841 - 07/19/08 10:14 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
Given how often these "prodigy/child genius" threads seem to pop up nowadays, maybe the mods should consider a sticky thread?
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#557842 - 07/20/08 02:23 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1472
These two examples for you to watch...There are many others.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=p7EHL30Tut8&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8mo0mbEt9Kc

Why these two are way better than your girl:
1. Different level of musicality.
2. Technically these two are much better than the girl that you praised...

Your girl's touch is way too heavy for the Minute Walts, The coordination between left and right hands is off. Technically and emotionally, she is not there yet to play minute waltz decently.

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#557843 - 07/20/08 02:27 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
Classicalist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 80
Loc: San Deigo
Now as a teenage pianist, I've grown up with my far share of 'prodigies' as people in my community would call them. What is surprising is many of these young kids lose their interest for piano so easily. It's really saddening because of all the talent they have.
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#557844 - 07/20/08 02:48 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5403
Loc: Orange County, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by RonaldSteinway:
Your girl's touch is way too heavy for the Minute Walts, The coordination between left and right hands is off. Technically and emotionally, she is not there yet to play minute waltz decently. [/b]
I would give the girl a break already! She's not out to compete with these other Youtube kids who have won national/international competitions.
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Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#557845 - 07/20/08 08:54 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19202
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by RonaldSteinway:
If I have to compare her to other prodigies, she is in the bottom. But if compared to normal kids, she is good (note, just good, not much better).[/b]
I would agree that her performance doesn't rate very high among prodigees. But compared to "normal" kids I think your opinion of her playing is way too low. I would say that compared to normal kids she easily rates in the 99th percentile for her age. In fact, normal kids will never have the technique to even attempt the Minute Waltz at any age.

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#557846 - 07/20/08 09:31 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10345
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
 Quote:
I would give the girl a break already! She's not out to compete with these other Youtube kids who have won national/international competitions.
AZN,

I heartily agree.

I do not know why people find it so easy to express harsh criticisms of young people on internet forums. This reflects typical snobbish "eat our young" classical-trained musicians for whom nobody but so-and-so is good enough. Welcome to the dying elitist world of classical piano. Good young people need to be celebrated, not chopped off at the knees.

Anybody remember Derulux? He used to make the same point quite often. Cutting up kids is very unseemly.


Vincent,

Nice Grieg. My son is starting to work on that movement now.
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#557847 - 07/20/08 10:52 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
OT, but whatever happened to Derulux? When going through old threads, I always find his posts interesting.
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#1198269 - 05/13/09 12:48 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: CC2 and Chopin lover]
umipiano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/22/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Orange County CA
Hi this is Umi's father, just thought i would share this with everyone,
Umi is going to be on the "Ellen DeGeneres Show" scheduled to air on Monday May 18th, she will be performing Liszt "Gnomenregen" at least part of it, due to time limitations it could be no longer than 70 seconds in length. Wish her good luck!

Steve


Edited by umipiano (05/13/09 12:52 AM)

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#1198275 - 05/13/09 01:08 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: Piano*Dad]
lisztonian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 266
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Quote:
I would give the girl a break already! She's not out to compete with these other Youtube kids who have won national/international competitions.
AZN,

I heartily agree.

I do not know why people find it so easy to express harsh criticisms of young people on internet forums. This reflects typical snobbish "eat our young" classical-trained musicians for whom nobody but so-and-so is good enough. Welcome to the dying elitist world of classical piano. Good young people need to be celebrated, not chopped off at the knees.

Perhaps there would be no need for criticism if a child were not lifted to "incredible" or "prodigal" status.
_________________________
http://www.infowars.com

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#1198276 - 05/13/09 01:10 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: umipiano]
lisztonian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 266
Originally Posted By: umipiano
Hi this is Umi's father, just thought i would share this with everyone,
Umi is going to be on the "Ellen DeGeneres Show" scheduled to air on Monday May 18th, she will be performing Liszt "Gnomenregen" at least part of it, due to time limitations it could be no longer than 70 seconds in length. Wish her good luck!

Steve
Im happy to say I've tackled that piece as well. It sure is a tough one.
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#1198334 - 05/13/09 05:12 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: Piano*Dad]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7741
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Quote:
I would give the girl a break already! She's not out to compete with these other Youtube kids who have won national/international competitions.
AZN,

I heartily agree.

I do not know why people find it so easy to express harsh criticisms of young people on internet forums. This reflects typical snobbish "eat our young" classical-trained musicians for whom nobody but so-and-so is good enough. Welcome to the dying elitist world of classical piano. Good young people need to be celebrated, not chopped off at the knees.

Anybody remember Derulux? He used to make the same point quite often. Cutting up kids is very unseemly.



Well, one reason I can sometimes get harsh about these kids is because I think kids should not be shoved into the public spotlight before they are worldly enough to fully aware of the situation they are in, and are in control of it themselves. Anything else is exploitation, and that is what is unseemly. I don't care how it gets rationalized and how much the child seems to enjoy it on the surface, the kid is getting used and manipulated by adults. It happened to me on a small, local scale as a child, so I have some idea of what I am talking about.

If people in internet forums aren't being nice, maybe the answer to that is that they shouldn't even be made aware of these kids. Problem solved.

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#1198357 - 05/13/09 07:40 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: Piano*Dad]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Quote:
I would give the girl a break already! She's not out to compete with these other Youtube kids who have won national/international competitions.
AZN,

I heartily agree.
I do not know why people find it so easy to express harsh criticisms of young people on internet forums.... Cutting up kids is very unseemly.


I agree that this harsh criticsm here is quite uncomely. I would think that a piano community would be encouraging to youngsters who are studying the piano with fervor to become good enough to share their talents with others.

I also listened to the Rameau. I would be proud to be her parent or teacher.

I don't recall that CC2 said she was a prodigy, just sharing that he found a 7 yr old who is doing well.

Umi's Dad - Keep encouraging her and giving her all the opportunities to share her music with others!

RE:
Aimi Kobayashi
Quite exception talent. She has more musicality than most adults who play this piece!

KIT ARMSTRONG
Another exceptional young artist.

Thank you for sharing all three with us.

WR
RE: "Well, one reason I can sometimes get harsh about these kids is because I think kids should not be shoved into the public spotlight before they are worldly enough to fully aware of the situation they are in, and are in control of it themselves."

Shame on you. You justify getting harsh with a child just because you disagree with their parents? Geeze. Give the kids a break.
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1198389 - 05/13/09 09:23 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: umipiano]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: umipiano
Hi this is Umi's father, just thought i would share this with everyone,
Umi is going to be on the "Ellen DeGeneres Show" scheduled to air on Monday May 18th, she will be performing Liszt "Gnomenregen" at least part of it, due to time limitations it could be no longer than 70 seconds in length. Wish her good luck!

Steve


Best of luck to her. Please ignore the negative comments here. People often forget they are talking about real people.

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#1198408 - 05/13/09 10:18 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: RonaldSteinway]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19202
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
These two examples for you to watch...There are many others.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=p7EHL30Tut8&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8mo0mbEt9Kc

Why these two are way better than your girl:
1. Different level of musicality.
2. Technically these two are much better than the girl that you praised...

Your girl's touch is way too heavy for the Minute Walts, The coordination between left and right hands is off. Technically and emotionally, she is not there yet to play minute waltz decently.


I think that's a little harsh and depends what you mean by "decently". Although your criticsms are valid, I think she plays it better than all but around 2-3% of all people of any age who play piano. So for a seven year extremely good(less than 1% could play it that well) but maybe not prodigy level(whatever that means...everything is relative).


Edited by pianoloverus (05/13/09 10:24 AM)

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#1198426 - 05/13/09 10:52 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: RonaldSteinway]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
These two examples for you to watch...There are many others.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=p7EHL30Tut8&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8mo0mbEt9Kc

Why these two are way better than your girl:
1. Different level of musicality.
2. Technically these two are much better than the girl that you praised...

Your girl's touch is way too heavy for the Minute Walts, The coordination between left and right hands is off. Technically and emotionally, she is not there yet to play minute waltz decently.


I agree with pianoloverus; that's a bit harsh, considering her age.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1198445 - 05/13/09 11:14 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: Phlebas]
umipiano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/22/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Orange County CA
She is in the best of hands with loving teachers that know the ways of the claissical music field. It is just sad that there is soo little in the way of finincial aid out there to help these young aspiring kids. What is one to do if they win a competition in another state and the only way to get there award is to perform there which will require two plane tickets, a hotel for the night, a taxie etc... and then on top of that you have already paid $200+ in competition fees and entry fees. It is a true up hill battle even with all the help and support we recieve from friends and family. We hope the Ellen show will open up some doors for her and make her goal a little eaiser to reach.

Steve

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#1198469 - 05/13/09 11:48 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: umipiano]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
I see two problems with this..

One if you want to watch a professional pianist......Go watch a professional pianist. It will be more enjoyable to you. Of course a kid is not going to be able to do as well. Even a prodigy.

I can understand why some people are harsh. When it comes down to it. Playing good is not enough in the end. Reminds me of that film The Competition. Where the mother says to her son "You play like an angel, shouldn't that be enough.." His reply was "We all play like angels." Then goes on to talk about the girl who dresses younger then she was. I can understand why we as a group expect something more. When it comes down to what a lot of us can do, just being able to play is the normal.

As for exploitation...I think we should give the benefit of the doubt on that one. No one has any proof that is going on....And we can't possibly speak for the girl.

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#1198476 - 05/13/09 11:54 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: wr]
EmilyChopin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 65
Loc: Washington
I totally agree with wr. These kids are talented but they're not the ones putting up videos or talking about how they're prodigies, it's their parents. Their parents ought to be proud but flinging them into performances like this isn't always good for them. Look what happened to Mozart with his dad.

Regarding the girl, she seems to be having fun, and she IS talented. But I wonder who picked out the Minute Waltz for her to play?
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Just because my instrument is the size of a table does not mean you may lean on it!

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#1198508 - 05/13/09 12:58 PM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: umipiano]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: umipiano
She is in the best of hands with loving teachers that know the ways of the claissical music field. It is just sad that there is soo little in the way of finincial aid out there to help these young aspiring kids. What is one to do if they win a competition in another state and the only way to get there award is to perform there which will require two plane tickets, a hotel for the night, a taxie etc... and then on top of that you have already paid $200+ in competition fees and entry fees. It is a true up hill battle even with all the help and support we recieve from friends and family. We hope the Ellen show will open up some doors for her and make her goal a little eaiser to reach.

Steve


Hi Steve,

I enjoyed the Chopin waltz, but what I really found on your YT channel that I though was great was the Liszt Gnomenreigen . Tell Umi "great work" from me. thumb My only concern is that her shoulders appeared to be tense to me; but those poofy sleeves might have been contributing slightly to an optical illusion. smile

I can tell that in the year between the Chopin and the Liszt her touch has gotten lighter. However, some of the perceived heavy touch in the Chopin CC2 linked to might have been the acoustic combined with poorer recording quality.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1198836 - 05/13/09 11:12 PM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: lilylady]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7741
Originally Posted By: lilylady

WR
RE: "Well, one reason I can sometimes get harsh about these kids is because I think kids should not be shoved into the public spotlight before they are worldly enough to fully aware of the situation they are in, and are in control of it themselves."

Shame on you. You justify getting harsh with a child just because you disagree with their parents? Geeze. Give the kids a break.


Obviously, I'm not actually "getting harsh with a child" because that child is not posting on this forum. I shouldn't have needed to explain that.

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#1198857 - 05/14/09 12:22 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: wr]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Isn't it possible for children to be exploited even while apparently enjoying it?

Children are considered not to know what's in their best interest, and there are things to which they cannot legally give informed consent; it goes with the territory of being a minor. It's assumed that parents or guardians will act in their children's best interests, but that doesn't always happen; sometimes they are ignorant or misguided, and sometimes the child's needs just aren't a priority.

Like wr, I had some traumatic experiences as a kid. Learning to play and read music in earliest childhood was a great advantage, but being pushed too fast too soon to perform—while fun at first—had effects that scarred me enough to abandon piano completely for several years (and to continue abandoning it periodically throughout adulthood). Because I had learned nothing about artistry or the personal relevance of musical expression, cultivating and reclaiming them—and overcoming cycles of ambivalence and even antipathy—has been a lifelong struggle.

I wouldn't wish to be the outsider judging what differentiates active encouragement from inappropriately aggressive promotion, and I sure don't envy the parent charged with that responsibility.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1198874 - 05/14/09 01:21 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: Horowitzian]
BJones Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1043
Loc: Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: Horowitzian
but those poofy sleeves might have been contributing slightly to an optical illusion.


Like the rotation on these cirlces?



smile
_________________________
Some recent improvisations:

Cool School Chopin:

http://www.mediafire.com/?d1yc1mmitew

Improvisations:

http://www.box.net/shared/bjv6yc34oo

http://www.box.net/shared/8lmc3hzikl


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#1198947 - 05/14/09 07:40 AM Re: Incredible Child Pianist [Re: BJones]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
To some degree or another I've known three of the contestants who happen to be competing this month in the Van Cliburn competition. Two have performed at my house and one I arranged to perform as a teenager with a local orchestra.

They have worked at the piano almost all of their lives, and in every case it started as a requirement imposed on them by their parents. Their parents were very driven people, constantly looking for opportunities for their children to perform. Exactly when the parent should begin pushing the child in front of the public is a difficult question, but often the determination is made not by the parent (and certainly not by the child), but by the teacher. At least if they have a very good teacher.

Once these kids went on to conservatory (Julliard, Curtis, etc.), the parents were forced to butt out and stop acting as career managers. The teachers and the school take on that role, except interestingly on those occasions when the parents can still arrange a gig back home during a school break. At this point, though, the child is now a teenager/adult, and wants every exposure possible, because everyone in the conservatory knows how difficult a music career is and how important exposure is.

I'm sure there are many more cases where the child prodigy fizzles out or drops out, so it is difficult to say at this stage what will happen to Umi. What I've seen though, is that before age ten parental pressure to practice, and parental help in getting public performance experience, is important as long as the child enjoys both of these experiences. If the child is only going through the motions, it is probably useless to expect much. Second, the parent has to be prepared to get out of the picture once a really good teacher takes over the education, and especially if a top conservatory is involved. Then it becomes more and more what that young adult wants for herself or himself, and how badly they want it.

And that, by the way, is only the career part, and says nothing about whether the child can emotionally identify with the music being performed. One big clue I have seen is whether the child starts asking questions about the composer, the musical period at the time, and especially when the child wants to explore other piano literature. That's a big step forward to engagement with music, not just with a piano career.

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