I'll kick off the recital improvement thread with a suggestion for Mahlzeit.

Mahlzeit,

This is not the first time we have had a timing problem where the website was one hour off the actual deadline.

Is there any chance you can looked into this for the next recital?

Thanks
Rich

It probably has something to do with daylight savings time. I'll add it to my to-do list.

The problem is that it has always worked when I looked at it (which presumably was when daylight savings time was not in effect), and that I'm not awake during the final hours of the recital to witness the actual countdown.

How about a list of the recital pieces that includes performer and composer that could be printed out for those of us that burn CDs and listen to them while driving. The list that is included as a template for comments would work, but it doesn't include the composer.

Now you can visualize me driving, listening to the CD, and trying to read the list to see who that marvelous performer is...

I think the recital runs very good now. If I had to be nit-picky I would look for a way to show the avatar of the performer displayed only once in the far left margin as opposed to Monicas on every entry.

Of course nothing against Monicas avatar but it can get a little confusing at times; especially when the performer does not link his/her own avatar. Like I said, just if someone was getting really bored and wanted to fix something!

Should the recital start getting very large, a suggestion could be to possibly have a few subgroups (genres) of music styles put under a single heading...i.e a classical group, new age/neo classical group, pop/contempory etc.

Another suggestion could be to somehow group experience levels together..(based on ability, not time).

These are just a few things to think about on the back burner if ever needed. The recital has not gotten too big (yet), but it has grown tremendously in just a few years. We could easily have over 100 entrants by years end at the current growth rate.

Thoughtful planning will ensure the recitals continued success but at present, it ain't broke so...

...don't fix it! :-)

Seriously, the recital is fun and works well. And considering it's all done by volunteer effort it is amazing.

I understand the confusion. Unfortunately I think this is a problem without a fix, unless we moved the recital thread off-forum and kept it solely on LaValse's server. But the last time we talked about it, there was not much support for doing that and strong vocal support for keeping the recital in the forum.

Well, there *is* a fix, actually, which is for me to stop using my avatar entirely, but that would be like taking a scalpel to my face.

...or, maybe I could just turn my avatar off for the week immediately following the recital. That's not a bad idea, honestly... I'll try to remember to do that next time. (And feel free to give me a gentle nudge if I don't.)

Actually Monica, I think you just discovered the fix. Like you said, you probably could just disable your avatar during the entry process of the recital submissions and then enable it again later.

If when you enable it again the avatar pops back up in everyones entry than don't bother. It's not fair for you to have no face for a week!.

As I've mentioned if it was a simple easy fix then do it but apparantly it's not fixable unless we move the recital. In that case just leave things be.

I'm pretty sure that whether your avatar shows or not is dependent on how you have currently set your profile, and it will apply to all past posts. (e.g., you have changed your avatar over the years, but all your past posts show your current avatar).

But it's certainly easy enough to disable my avatar for the week that the recital thread is busiest, and I can live without it for that long. I just have to remember to do it next time.

Along those lines, one nice feature of the new forum software is that you can selectively disable your signature, which I attempted to do for all the recital entries, as showing off my blogs and youtube channel just cluttered things up too much. It would nice if they had that same selective disable for the avatar, but they don't (at least as far as I can tell).

My 2 cents?? live with it...seems like a lot to do and undo just for a avatar.

btw...Nice job everyone...

Monica,

Why not sign up with a new account for the Piano World Forums and use that to post the recital entries instead of your regular account?

Because they'd ban me for life under the new "Absolutely positively no sockpuppet" rule!

...but maybe if I asked Ken/Frank for permission ahead of time and used a login name like "AB recital" they'd let me get away with it.

...but if I did that, I'd have to start earning my post count the old-fashioned way of actually saying something...

....but then on the other hand [starts taking idea seriously], there would be the advantage of having the recital announcements and thread coming out from some "official" capacity and not just me, which would provide for some continuity if and when somebody else takes over... all I'd have to do is tell 'em the password. hmmm.... definitely worth exploring.

I would much rather explore the possibility of having the recital software actually doing the posting to the forum. It should be doable with only a bit of work. I'm sure Monica would vote for that rather than doing copy/paste for every entry.

Okay that was brilliant!

My (dim) memory tells me we talked about this a while back and concluded it wasn't feasible, *if* we want to keep the recital thread in PW (which I believe we do). The copying and pasting really isn't a big deal at all; mahlzeit's program creates a handy text file with all the info that makes it all very easy... I'm able to work on it while the mp3 files are being downloaded, assembled into zip files, and uploaded, so it really wouldn't save any time.

If the recital got truly HUGE (= hundreds of submissions) I might change my mind, but if it gets that big, we'll probably be making other changes, too, e.g., subdividing.

MK...about how much time do you spend that night? and be honest.

...and how tall are you?, how old?. and weight? be honest!

I spend about 2 1/2 hours putting the recital out, monster. It was a little longer last time, but that was because I screwed up my mp3 file and had to fool around with the zip files etc. to fix it.


p.s. to msh: 5'8", 19, and 105. Think Gisele Bundchen, only smarter.

^That made me laugh.

I put together the photo contests on another forum. It cycles about every two weeks (one week for entries, one week for voting). If Monica is like me, she just likes doing it. And I say kudos for all of your and mahlzeit's work on the recitals.

If Canada Post didn't charge such exhorbitant rates, I'd send you something as a thank-you. Maybe some bakeapples for your ice cream or processed into jam. Mmmm....bakeapples. I'm sure they'd never get through the FDA, but it's the thought that counts.

Depending on the new forum post size limits, and if necessary because of recital size in the future, an alternative is to paste the recital into a single message, with replies being the current discussion thread - and I'm pretty sure it would be straightforward for Matt to change the way the text is generated for you (Monica) (also fixes the avatar issue)...

That would tend to make the time needed to prepare fairly constant rather than being dependent on the number of entries...

If that was desirable but hit post size limits - it would be easy ( get coding Matt... ) to go hybrid - with some info on PW and some hyperlinked to the server... Which does not really compromise traffic to Frank - the reason for keeping it on PW...

that works out to a little over 3 1/2 hours for 100 entries...

btw... thanks for the mental image...lol

I think the reason we didn't go that way the last time we discussed the issue is because the forum software wouldn't accept more than a limited number of special codes in a single post, and I don't think we want to have just straight text. I'm not sure if those limits are still in effect with this new software.

But at this point I don't consider it something that needs to be addressed. Right now, the rate-limiting step is the down-loading and up-loading process. I'm usually finished with copying and pasting the text before all the zip files have been uploaded. So I don't really see a compelling need for mahlzeit to go back and reprogram stuff.

OK, just thunking aloid...

Here's my thinking...(outloud, which usually get me into trouble somehow!).

Even though I do absolutely nothing while Monica spends hours (each time) doing all the administrative duties to run the recital in addition to Mahlzeits incredible programming talents and LaValses generocity of proving the server to run the recital, it still is/was my original idea and I would like to continue to have input on how it is run.

While everyones contributions are more appreciated than they could possibly imagine, I still don't think it is a good idea to have any single part of the recital be dependant on any one single person due to the fact that if something were to come up, we'd all be screwed.

Let's face it, without Mahlzeits program, we would have no program. Without LaValses server, we would have no host...(which = no recital). Without Monica's input and prep every time, none of the quirks would ever get worked out.

Obviously, EVERYONES participation and efforts are crucial to the success of the recital but we should also consider longevity to ensure future continued success.

What if LaValse can no longer offer up his server?, do we have a backup server to host it?.

What if Mahlzeit gets tired of providing us with thousands of dollars of free programming or just gets too busy. Do we have another programmer willing to fill his shoes....for free?.

What if Monica cannot devote the incredible amount of time in the future as she currently does now hosting the recital?. Will someone else take over?.

What I am really trying to say is that good thorough planning and anticipation of future requirements WILL solve all of these potential snags.

YES, the recital is running smooth NOW but based on the past growth/participation rate the time for future planning is NOW.

We really should attempt and get this thing running as automatically as possible without being too dependant on any one persons inputs. This is only good planning.

The fact is that any one of the scenarios mentioned above could potentailly present themsleves at any time which (at the current status) we would be screwed!. All I am trying to do is to devise a way in which the recital can continue to run smoothly while addressing all future/potental problems or concerns.

A mindset of "it aint broke so don't fix it" can also be viewd as having no future planning should something go wrong or present itself as a challenge that currently does not exist.

My proposal is for considering options that would automate the recital process in the future as well as trying to thoroughly plan for any unforseen obstacles which may pop up.

There will always be some amount of human input and coordination involved which is where the contributions from our members like Monica, Mahlzeit and LaValse comes in.

I just want to come up with a good sound plan for the future in which the recital can continue to run flawlessly irregardless of who's running it. Some type of plan in which anyone at any time could just step in and take over any of the positions without all kinds of training or experience.

If my thinking is accurate then please join in and offer suggestions. If not, start tossing rotten fruit at me. I can take it.

A plan for succession is always a good idea, hunky. The good news is that mahlzeit's program is really idiot proof, and we have evidence of that because I'm just about as computer illiterate as they come, yet I was able to figure everything out.

It's not apparent to y'all, but once the administrator clicks "process submissions" on the recital website admin page, a long sheet of step-by-step directions is produced telling the person exactly what to do. So if--god forbid--I were hit by a truck, someone else really *could* step up to the bat and take over seamlessly, I think.

I could probably also draft a supplemental Memo For the Truly Clueless of things that I have figured out over time (e.g., mahlzeit's instructions say "create zip files" and the first time I did the recital it took me a little while to figure out how to do that, as I had never made a zip file before).

It's also the case that (a) I enjoy helping out with the recital and have every intention of continuing to do so for the indefinite future, and (b) but even if something came up--say, I had to travel during the recital or had some kind of crisis--I'm responsible enough (= obsessive-compulsive) that I'd make sure the recital was covered.

Of course, if that truck hit me at 8:30 pm the night of a recital, we'd all be hosed--me most of all --but that's an unlikely enough of an event that I'm not too worried about it.

True, but we'd still all be hosed; something that could have been prevented.

Same would be true if we had a backup server just in case LaValse could not donate his. Also, Mahlzeit could also be hit by a truck and he may be the only person with a password to over ride the program or work out a glitch.

I am NOT suggesting any duties be taken away from anyone; not in the least. Like I said, I feel a certain amount of personal responsibility to ensure that our recital continues to run smoothly in the future under any and all circumstances.

I am a firm believer in thoughtful PRE-planning to ensure the ability to handle anything that may happen, even if the possibility is very remote. To me, that just is good planning; something we will all benefit by.

I'd like to see a standardized recital program that anyone could run at any time as well as a potential backup server (ot at least a contingency plan). In addition, NOW is the time to start thinking on how to handle 100+ submissions so we're not in a panick when that happens....(which at the curent growth rate, it will by years end).

I am only offering suggestions to continue our recitals to run smoothly for years to come. It is because of the careful planning and contributions of our members that make our recital so successful today. We must not become to complacent or we will get burned if just one link of the chain breaks away. People carry a spare tire in the vehichle for a reason. 99.9 % of the time you will never need it but you will be SO glad to have it for that one occasion you do. Sooner or later our vehichle (the recitals) are going to have a flat, I just hope we are prepared for it when it happens as there is no justifiable excuse not to be!.

bugger, lavalse is dead, ah but its ok, we sorted out a backup server...

MrSH, I understand completely your concerns and agree to most of what is proposed, however it is the human element- MC's if you will, that is the attraction for me. If it were total automated I doubt if it would hold the same value. But, I am just a newbie and don't really belong in this conversation. What, I would really like to say is- thank you to all who have paved the way and continue to provide this most excellent vehicle for expression, entertainment, and education to the world of music. It is most unique.

Carl, your input is of course valuable as is everyones (other than Gyro's) and I fully understand your human element factor.

We DO have that human element factor now from everyone who makes the recital happen and will always continue to. The fact is that if any one of the main members who curently make the recital happen..(Monica, Mahlzeit, LaValse) could not contribute their portion of the duties, the recital would crash unless their portion of the duties were done by someone else or replaced (in terms of a server).

Just this past recital my submission was rejected (most likely do to my crap satelite internet connection) and both Monica and Mahlzeit had to *personally* fix it. Without this "human touch", I would have been tossed from the recital and the world would have been at a loss because of it!

I am literally just asking for a possible backup technical guru for Mahlzeit, and a possible backup server just in case LaValse is unable to provide us with his for whatever reason in the future.

Monicas task seems to more demanding from a human input and time perspective in terms of organizing and running the whole event. We are so lucky to have all three of these people who devote their time and resources free of charge for us. Of course none of us would ever want them to stop doing what they are doing but we should never automatically place any burden on any of them either.

I'm just asking for some backup, that's all, nothing else.

Btw, I'm "officially" giving Monica, Mahlzeit and LaValse a free pass on this forum to do whatever they want at any time because without them we are SCREWED!

No, I don't have any form of authority here but who cares; no-ones checking credentials.

Exactly.

Excuse me, could I see some ID?

My involvement in running the actual recitals is almost zero. Sometimes something goes wrong and occasionally I add in a new feature. Anyone with a little PHP skill could do this.

When I wrote this program I set it up specifically so that someone other than me could be the administrator. By splitting it up over 3 people we have already removed much of the risk.

Ditto - (almost 0) - monica (publish), cooper (stats) and ddh (cover) do the real work.

The recital is fresh and popular at the moment but it will have a lifespan and if somebody involved goes awol for whatever reason (sorry about my above post - one bottle on wine too many) it's an opportunity for a facelift and new perspectives - it's a bit of fun and perhaps we take it too seriously at times...

Okay, let me get this straight. I came up with the idea but do absolutely nothing..(never have). Mahlzeit wrote the program but also claims to do nothing (anymore). LaValse provides the server but he too claims to do zero. I guess that only leaves one person (the lovely Monica) who spends several hours per recital doing all the input and administrative duties.

Well, I'm glad she says she likes doing the work because she must be doing a LOT of it as nobody else seems to be doing anything...(so they claim!).

In any event, EVERYONES work and input is greatly appreciated and my fears seem to be diminished knowing that Mahlzeits program is so user friendly that anyone can run it....(unless of course he were to take off with it and demand a ransom for it)! Should I worry about that too?, I mean if you think about it, it would be a great way to make a quick buck and it's not like we can say the program is not worth the ransom money. hmmm. (note to self, never piss off Mahlzet).

Then again, what if LaValse were to start charging us for the server. It's not like we can say it's not worth it!. hmmm, (note to self, never piss off LaValse either).

And what about all the work monica does. Who's gonna want to do all that?. It's not not we can say keep doing the work woman or else!..hmmm, (note to self, never piss off monica either).

I worry a lot.

Excellent advice, for many reasons.

I do like that mahlzeit has spread things across three administrators; that does in fact minimize the risk.

For the foreseeable future, I think the recital will proceed smoothly. The only potential snag I can realistically imagine is if I had to be out of town for some recital day and incapable of administering it. In such a case I would know about it ahead of time and recruit a volunteer to sub in for me.

There are other unrealistic snags I can think of... I'm into post-apocalyptic literature so, like hunky, I worry a lot, too--about flu pandemics; Ebola or other biological warfare pandemics; EMP events; asteroid hits; global warming; zombie attacks. You name it; I've read a book about it. But we will have bigger things to worry about than the AB forum recital in these cases.

The recital software is actually built to withstand zombie attacks.

LOL - a kind of hacker software I presume?

Cathy

Darn, Matt, I just knew it! You are a superb programmer!

This thread has turned out to be an excellent read for many reasons!

As the brand new AB Forum Recital account, I must say that I am tremendously relieved to hear that I am safe from zombie attacks.

Thanks to BB Player for his assistance in approving this account without getting my alter ego into sockpuppet trouble.

All future recital announcements and threads will be issued henceforth from this account, which will most conspicuously lack an avatar.

And I got my first sock report a few seconds ago:

A user from the IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xx has logged in to the following accounts: Monica K., AB Forum Recital.

Let's see you get that account up to 10,000 posts!

And thanks again for managing the recitals!

Awww, that's easy! Just sprinkle some salt on it! But seriously, I really enjoyed participating in the recital, and listening to others' submissions. In fact, I'm still in the process of downloading them. Thanks, Monica, and all the rest, for volunteering your time and skills to make it happen. This pianonewb appreciates it.

Just wondering....

How much disk space and how much bandwidth does the recital consume monthly?

Are you referring to space and bandwidth on the Piano World server or on the server where the recital files are stored?

If the former, very little. No more than any other thread.

If the latter, the most recent recital was 256 MB. I'd expect bandwidth usage is high when the recitals are first posted then tapering off to next to nothing in a few weeks.

I was wondering about the server where the recital files are stored. 256 MB of disk space is not much. the question is the bandwidth, that can get expensive.

Monica the AB forum avatar is perfect. No more confusion. Not a big issue but a tiny one that makes an "A" an "A+".