Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum What do you do about overbearing, mean parents?

I have a situation with a student's father and I just don't know how to handle this. I've only been teaching for a few years, and this is the first time I've encountered a "bully" of a parent.

My student is 7 years old and just started taking lessons with me a few months ago. This girl is SO sweet - she brings me cards that she draws herself, showing me and her playing the piano with hearts all around it LOL, and "I love you" at the bottom. She even drew a little bookmark for my daughter a few weeks ago, which she told me to give her after her lesson. When she left, I looked at it, and it said "Your mommy is the best, prettiest, nicest piano teacher in the whole world." Talk about a little sweetheart! She seems to truly love coming to lessons, but I always feel so bad for her when she tells me how mean her dad is.

Basically, she is doing very well with piano so far. She does have some problems with keeping a steady 4/4 time, but the times I have tried to work on it with her, she has gotten really upset and said that her dad is going to be very upset with her for not doing well. One time when I wrote a "reminder" in her notebook about it, so she could remember to count out loud 1-2-3-4 while practicing, she started crying and shaking! When I asked her what was wrong, she said her dad always looks in her notebook after lessons and if there is something even remotely "constructive" that he grounds her, yells at her, and tells her she is stupid and should be doing better.

I have to admit that her father is pretty intimidating. This is an Asian family (that is neither here nor there LOL) but I can tell he is very demanding of her. I can definitely picture him doing what she says he does... I always make sure to praise her when he picks her up; I go over the top with the praise, actually, because I am so worried for her!

She is doing great with note reading, dynamics, everything except keeping the steady beat and holding notes their full counts. But that is to be expected since she's only taken lessons for a few months!

I just don't know what to do! She got very frightened when I said I was going to have a talk with her dad - she begged me not to because she said he'll get very mad and yell at her, ground her, call her names, etc. I really don't want to cause any further problems for her at home, or incur that kind of wrath from her father, so how can I handle this so that doesn't happen?

Hmm, that's a tough one. Does the father come in to pick her up from lessons? I would call him and ask that he does so you can 'review' what you worked on with him. Also during this conversation you can tell him that you like to see independence in your students so that they learn self-discipline. This means that while he can listen to her play, he shouldn't be there while she is practicing, or she may become dependent on him to tell her what to do.

Include him in the process in other ways. When he is there to pick her up at lessons, praise her in front of him. Let him know that while there is always room for improvement, she is doing very well, and give specifics. Let him know where she stands compared to other students in your studio. Sometimes parents just have no idea what their child should be doing at that age. They may be affected by seeing Suzuki students who play amazingly well but struggle with reading which often isn't reflected in their performances (not to bash Suzuki, but many parents do not understand that and just see other kids playing and think why can't their child play like that?). I think communication is very important. I have had overbearing parents that simply needed some gently coaxing in the right direction.

If he ever chastises the child in front of you, you have every right to tell him that that sort of talk is counterproductive to your efforts. You are the professional here and are being paid to use your expertise to bring the child to the point where they can play to the best of their abilities, and any undermining that he is doing will not be tolerated.

That's just so sad! I agree, lots of praise for the child, and also in the notebook.

Where is the "mother" in all of this?

I would take it seriously if she is afraid of her dad. Sadly, there are parents that will abuse their kids for any, or no, reason. The kids usually have a reason to be afraid. This may be a bit extreme, but as teachers we are legally bound to contact authorities for any suspected abuse. I would just be very aware.

Yikes, poor little thing

I'm curious -- is that Minnesota state law?

At some risk of giving unintended offense, I'm going to raise some questions and perhaps be a little bit of a devil's advocate.

The only information we have here is that a 'sweet' seven year old child is expressing some feelings about her home life by talking about her 'mean' dad. That's it.

Before we bring in the child abuse police, please take a deep breath and think through all the possibilities here.

If I were an abused seven year old, I would be reticent about having my 'confidante' talk to the abuser. But if I were a manipulative 'sweet' seven year old, I would also be quite scared about having my 'confidante' talk to my dad!

Perhaps Monica can tell us about usual patterns of behavior in abused children, but before people go off the deep end on an internet forum, a little distance and a little perspective may help.

I agree with Piano* Dad, let's calm down and think this through. There are likely cultural barriers and misunderstandings. There is no physical abuse mentioned. Let's not jump off the deep end. The laws generally pertain to physical abuse, risk of physical injury.
MN law
WA law

Yes these are valid points. But the OP also stated that he is intimidating, to the point of being a bully. Abuse is not only physical. I didn't accuse, I'm just saying that it is important to realize that it COULD be taking place.

I know how manipulative kids can be, but there are also lots of abused kids that aren't taken seriously.

Again, I am NOT saying this is happening here, just pointing out that we always need to be "aware".



Not sure, but it's drilled into us at public school, and when I was a Cosmetologist it was drilled into us there too. I had to report a family once when I was cutting hair and noticed that the youngster had chunks of hair missing.



I'm not the police, I'm not calling them, or accusing anyone.

I don't think I'm off the deep end just for suggesting awareness. I understand that you weren't trying to offend me. It just is very sad how many children ARE abused (in one way or another) and too many people just blow them off when they cry for help. Again, NOT saying that's what happening here.

It's all good.

Oh, the only reason I asked was because, as a school teacher, you probably taught in a school which took Federal money, which had strings attached to it. Private teachers, not involved with Interstate Commerce (the Constitutional provision which Congress uses to impose various restrictions, etc.) doesn't apply. Washington State has it's own law, but when I lived in Wyoming, it was pretty laissez faire about such matters.

We have been told nothing that fits any of the general legal definitions of abuse. The child appears to be functioning at an acceptable level. Summary of all child abuse laws in U.S.

I agree that assuming the child is abused is probably going too far without proper support for such a view. I agree with the poster who mentioned that it would be odd for an abused child to confide in an adult. Most abused kids go out of their way to hide such things, as they blame themselves for it.

That's why I say speak with the father in front of the child, so that communication is clear...to *both* of them.

I don't think anyone assumed that. I know I didn't.
My original statement was

Wow, thanks for the responses. I knew I could count on y'all for some advice. This situation has been going on for a few months - I was hoping it would get better with my constant praise but it hasn't, so now I feel like something else needs to be done.

Morodiene - Yes, he brings her and picks her up every week. I have met the mother once, at our initial student meeting, but she did not talk, so I assume she doesn't speak English very well. I have not seen her since, and all of my communication is with the father.

Every time he picks her up, I tell him what we worked on during that lesson (because he seems to want to know every week), how well she is doing, how much she has learned already, etc. He always asks questions like, "How is she doing compared to your other students?" and "Is she as good as she should be right now?" And he asks them right in front of his daughter, which kind of bothers me... She is doing VERY well (except for a few minor things), so I always praise her. She consistently practices at least 30 minutes every single day, without fail. She has never missed a practice day (each student has a chart they show me each week, initialed by their parents) in all my months of teaching her, which is very impressive compared to other students who I can't get to practice at all LOL! I think I said to the father once, before I knew how he was treating her at home, that we needed to work on her note reading, but after that she got a lot better at note reading, so now the issue is the rhythm. But again, now that I know his personality and how it affects the child, I don't really talk to him about the minor troubles she is having. Instead, I focus on the positives every week. But I am so scared to write anything in her notebook now because she gets so upset... I try to talk about the things I want her to work on in class instead, and that seems to calm her down.

I like the idea of telling him that I want to instill independence in my students, so I'd rather the parents not observe their practicing at home or comment on it either (unless it's positive comments!). He has never chastised her right in front of me. Believe me, I would definitely speak up in her defense if he did!

Unfortunately, I now have another student scheduled right after this child, so I won't have time to really talk to the father like I have in the past. I have another hour of lessons after this student's lesson ends. So I am going to have to figure out how to find the time to talk to him about this. I get the feeling he wouldn't be receptive to a "conference" type phone call.

Someone PM'd me with a wonderful idea about sending a "newsletter" type thing to my students' homes, with information about being encouraging and not negative, etc. That may be an indirect way to address this, too.

And regarding abuse - I have seen nothing to support that, although I admit it did cross my mind (I wouldn't be a good teacher if I didn't consider the possibility). I guess what is happening could be considered emotional abuse, but I am not about to call in CPS on this family. I think there is a cultural difference in play here, and I need to try to frame the father's mind a little differently, and get him to see how well his daughter is doing instead of focusing only on the negatives, like he currently is.

Hopefully I can get this turned around, because every week it just breaks my heart when she leaves, because I can tell she is afraid of her father. =(

I will keep y'all updated with how it goes. Thanks again for all of the advice and suggestions.

Give her an award for her consistent practice, make up one if necessary. And put that in your newsletter to all your students, hold her up as a model to follow. That is proof for the father, I would think.
Cultural competency and Asian American family roots

Consider that the reason why she practices consistently and that her note reading improved could be due to the expectations set forth by the father (and possibly mother). I know our daughter at that age was very conscientious about practicing, but even then, I can guarantee that there were times she would have been much happier playing with friends or reading and the only reason why she practiced 7 days a week was due to parental expectations.



I guess if he's the ogre that he's being made out to be, then that would be good (but likely unheeded) advice. However, if it were my kids teacher saying that to me, we'd likely be looking for a new teacher. I know my opinions on this topic differ from many teachers, but I think it's a fine line to be drawn.



If you do the award thing, make it for the student. I don't think this will change his attitude.

BTW, PianoKitty, have you ever had a sit down with the family to discuss goals and expectations? At the very least this should give you a better understanding of what you're facing. If the dad want's his little girl to be playing Carnegie Hall at 14 and winning every competition she enters, then you might have a tough row to hoe and "little" things like awarding consistent practice will not be enough.

Now that you know her father is using her notebook as a way to evaluate how she is doing, you may need to add positive re-enforcement to the comments as well so it doesn't look so skewed towards the negative side.

Add Stars, and comments: "Good Job!", "Nice note reading!" and A+++++ comments to offset the reminders on timing. That way the father sees both sides, and not just 'what needs improvement'

This is all assuming that the child is not a little drama queen who wants sympathy...Since you are there and I am not, and you appear to believe her, we will go with the assumption that the father's attitudes and actions are causing the child needless distress.

First, might I suggest explicitly explaining to the father that a child's skill level at music is not an "all or nothing" situation.

In other words, some aspects of music will always come easier (and quicker) to a student than others, and some will come slower. So point out very clearly she is not "failing" at rhythm and counting...it is just an aspect of music that is taking her longer to excel at (or words to that effect). Mention aspects of music (whatever they are) that are easier for her for comparison.

I would personally consider having a private discussion with him in which I would warn him of the "dangers" of focusing too much on the child's supposed "failures". Explain to him that it is not realistic for a child taking music lessons to not have something on which they should be improving...that is the point of lessons! Scare him a little about how crippling it can be to a music student to be afraid of making mistakes. Or to label herself as "bad at rhythm"...which could turn into a lifetime of self-fulfilling prophesy.

You have said that the man is intimidating...by which I assume you mean he even intimidates you. Don't let him. He has hired you because you know something he does not...how to teach his daughter to play the piano. As the content area expert, you have the right and obligation to expect him to respect your knowledge about these things. Many Asian cultures hold a teacher and the teacher's knowledge in great esteem. Make this work for you.

Edited to add: Remember it is important to talk to dad on his terms. Don't try an approach that would require the father to accept your views about child-rearing, the importance of positive reinforcement, etc. Tell him on his own terms why what he is doing is a bad thing. If he is about 'results', point out that what he is doing is counter-productive. If he wants her to be a 'success'...explain to him that intimidation will prevent that. Explain the outlook necessary for the piano student to achieve "X" (whatever it is he wants her to achieve), and point out to him that it will be necessary for the *parent* to do "Y" (what you want him to do) and NOT to do "Z" (what you don't want him to do).

Dad sounds like a frickin idiot! And the mother is probably scared of him too.

Guess what? It IS abusive to talk to a child like that. Those who don't think so need to get a clue.

As far as what to do, I'd talk with the father directly. It's the only way to know what's going through that reptilian brain of his.

P.S. Yet another reason piano teachers should charge more.