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#1202307 - 05/19/09 05:28 PM Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2
MarianneAlkonost Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
I don't quite understand why my theme was closed up.

I beg your pardon, there are still things we have to talk about!

For example - have you ever seen these two photos enlarged:




They are from the German site rachmaninoff.de, but I never met these two photos elsewhere...
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http://www.rachmaninoff.org/board/

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#1202308 - 05/19/09 05:29 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: MarianneAlkonost]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
It was due to the troll that was infesting the topic.

Keep the good stuff coming! smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1202339 - 05/19/09 06:42 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: Horowitzian]
Drunk3nFist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 640
Loc: London
Wow Marianne! Thank you! Quality stuff.
_________________________
Ravel - Une Barque Sur l'Ocean
Kapustin - Etude No. 7
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#1202380 - 05/19/09 07:58 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: Drunk3nFist]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8936
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
The greater composer:



Not wanting to tinkle in anybody's cereal -Rachmaninov knew what he was best at- but the emotional range of his music is extremely limited and quite repetitive. (The 3rd concerto is basically a repeat of the 2nd, the 2nd symphony makes good what he didn't in the 1st.) I don't think he came within a mile of his great contemporaries, Mahler, Strauss, Sibelius, Nielsen or Elgar. I suspect Rachmaninov knew that.

That's okay. I love Rachmaninov very much -and the composers I list wrote nothing of importance for the piano- but I feel we need to keep the perspective.
_________________________
Jason

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#1202383 - 05/19/09 07:59 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: Drunk3nFist]
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1543
Loc: New York
Keep those pics coming.

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#1202385 - 05/19/09 08:00 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: LJC]
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1543
Loc: New York
The greater composer, though.

SAYS YOU!!

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#1202400 - 05/19/09 08:26 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: LJC]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8936
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: LJC

SAYS YOU!!

Care to be a bit more specific, otherwise your post is just 'I disagree.'

Why don't you back it up?
_________________________
Jason

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#1202401 - 05/19/09 08:27 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: argerichfan]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Let's not let this topic go south like the other one.

Stick to PICTURES.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1202407 - 05/19/09 08:33 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: Kreisler]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8936
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Let's not let this topic go south like the other one.

Okay. Sorry about that.
_________________________
Jason

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#1202453 - 05/19/09 09:56 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: argerichfan]
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1543
Loc: New York
Jaosn, You're reason for statements is no more compelling than mine but I'll just leave it at I disagree.

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#1202465 - 05/19/09 10:11 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: LJC]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8936
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: LJC
Jason, You're reason for statements is no more compelling than mine but I'll just leave it at I disagree.

Fair enough, my good mate.

I still adore Rachmaninov and I will spin a CD for you! thumb

Let's see- how about the D minor Sonata? Nah, the Rhapsody, IMO utterly superb stuff.
_________________________
Jason

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#1202520 - 05/20/09 12:01 AM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: argerichfan]
beginningpianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
The greater composer:

Not wanting to tinkle in anybody's cereal -Rachmaninov knew what he was best at- but the emotional range of his music is extremely limited and quite repetitive. (The 3rd concerto is basically a repeat of the 2nd, the 2nd symphony makes good what he didn't in the 1st.) I don't think he came within a mile of his great contemporaries, Mahler, Strauss, Sibelius, Nielsen or Elgar. I suspect Rachmaninov knew that.

That's okay. I love Rachmaninov very much -and the composers I list wrote nothing of importance for the piano- but I feel we need to keep the perspective.


Both of the piano concertos are very powerful and full of emotion. The only reason why the two seem so similar is because of the same mood in both pieces (which would be due to rachmaninoff's same emotional state while writing both). However, both have pretty distinct melodies. He created tons of great melodies. None of them are copies of each other.

I know some of those other composers were virtuosos on their instruments too...but...We probably don't get to see that much of rachmaninoff's diversity because he was heavily focused on performing and conducting.

And what about the two greats: mozart and bach? Are they not repetitive, in a sense?


Edited by beginningpianist (05/20/09 12:02 AM)

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#1202530 - 05/20/09 12:34 AM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: beginningpianist]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21926
Loc: Oakland
All the great composers are repetitive. Part of their greatness is knowing that their audience may not catch it the first time.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1202533 - 05/20/09 12:39 AM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: MarianneAlkonost]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: MarianneAlkonost
I don't quite understand why my theme was closed up.

I beg your pardon, there are still things we have to talk about!

For example - have you ever seen these two photos enlarged:




They are from the German site rachmaninoff.de, but I never met these two photos elsewhere...

I have never seen those pictures before either. I have no idea if larger versions are available. Thanks for sharing. smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1202703 - 05/20/09 10:56 AM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: MarianneAlkonost]
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: MarianneAlkonost
For example - have you ever seen these two photos enlarged:




They are from the German site rachmaninoff.de, but I never met these two photos elsewhere...


I am fairly sure the first picture is from a series of photos taken when Rachmaninoff attended rehearsals of Eugene Ormandy conducting the Symphonic Dances. I have a larger copy of this somewhere. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of moving house at the moment and don't have access to it. Once I'm settled, I'll dig out the picture.

The second photo appears to have been taken at his house, Senar, in Switzerland.

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#1202846 - 05/20/09 03:06 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: timbo77]
MarianneAlkonost Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Exactly so! One can recognise Senar straight away...
Thank you! I will look forward to see this picture thanks to you!

Thank you for your replyies, dear friends.

argerichfan, your view on the scale of Rachmaninoff's work is hugely individual... It is the choice of personal preferences. But there are undisscussible ways to know whether the composer is worth listening - his fame. Rachmaninoff's Vocalise is one of the most often performed piece, Rachmaninoff's Elegie is his best chef-d'oeuvre comparable only to the Moonlight Sonata to my mind... Have you ever heard them and felt nothing?

So let me post some new. First of all we appreciate the pictures where SVR is playing the piano, so this one is among them and is very rare:



I wish I knew where and when it was taken... Any ideas?
_________________________
http://www.rachmaninoff.org/board/

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#1203008 - 05/20/09 07:55 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: MarianneAlkonost]
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1543
Loc: New York
My guess is this is the late 30's judging by the style of clothes of the audience. This photo was probably taken in the US. That's a New York Steinway D. If it were in Europe most likely he'd be playing a Hamburg D. I wonder how these people got to sit on stage with R. A great seat even if it's on the wrong side of the piano. Yet another great photo from Marianne!

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#1203194 - 05/21/09 02:17 AM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: LJC]
Tenuto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 550
Loc: U.S.A.
Jason, I love Rachmaninoff as much as I do Chopin in terms of writing for the piano. I could no longer live without them as without the other great contemporaries you mentioned.

Ok, now get back to those great pictures!





~Valerie

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#1203260 - 05/21/09 08:00 AM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: MarianneAlkonost]
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
Originally Posted By: MarianneAlkonost
...
So let me post some new. First of all we appreciate the pictures where SVR is playing the piano, so this one is among them and is very rare:



I wish I knew where and when it was taken... Any ideas?


I'm less sure about this one but I still fairly confident this is actually taken from an advertisement. It may not be a picture of Rachmaninoff in performance. I think it's taken from an Ampico advert implying that by buying an Ampico recording of Rachmaninoff, it's as good as having him perform for you in your room. I have collected most of the Ampico, acoustic and Steinway advertisements of Rachmaninoff and think I have this among them. Again, when I finally unpack all my stuff in my new house I will be able to check.

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#1205197 - 05/24/09 05:55 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: timbo77]
MarianneAlkonost Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
timbo77, exactly so!!! I look forward to get more information from you, it seems you have a precious archive!

As long as I understand viewing the replies in this and previous topic with the same name there is kind of desire of those who write (let's say some of them) to feel that Rachmaninoff was a human being, not a deity and kind of "one of us".



Hope this picture will prove it enough so that we can just enjoy it and never try to make our own humorous inscriptions under SVR's pictures... simply because he hasn't got the chance to do the same thing with us - that would be fair - wouldn't it? :-)
_________________________
http://www.rachmaninoff.org/board/

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#1205206 - 05/24/09 06:18 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: MarianneAlkonost]
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 801
Loc: Netherlands
Cool, thanks for the pics.

Even if the 'emotional range' of his music would be extremely limited (I'm not saying it is), certainly he excelled within the limited range he operated in. smile

By the way, if you're going to judge him as a composer, you should also take his choral works into account. I find it incredible music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiSiRAZRCVA&fmt=18

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#1205208 - 05/24/09 06:21 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: babama]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
BTW, Marianne, you are welcome to contribute pictures of Rachmaninoff to my thread:

The Ultimate Picture Thread

smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1205396 - 05/25/09 09:49 AM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: Horowitzian]
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
Marianne -- I love the photo of Rachmaninoff cutting a cake. Can you tell me more about it and where it came from? I would venture it was taken in the early 1940s.

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#1205631 - 05/25/09 05:30 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: timbo77]
MarianneAlkonost Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
It is from the collection of Emil Gilels - Rachmaninoff's relatives gave him a dozen of photos as a present:
http://emilgilels.com/gallery.php

Here are some new for today - Rachmaninoff making records for Edison company:



_________________________
http://www.rachmaninoff.org/board/

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#1206077 - 05/26/09 11:58 AM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: MarianneAlkonost]
MarianneAlkonost Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
_________________________
http://www.rachmaninoff.org/board/

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#1206112 - 05/26/09 12:46 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: MarianneAlkonost]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Dang, that's a big dog!
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1207005 - 05/27/09 05:58 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: Horowitzian]
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1543
Loc: New York
Even if the 'emotional range' of his music would be extremely limited (I'm not saying it is), certainly he excelled within the limited range he operated in.

I do not agree that Rachmaninoff's emotional range or any other Rachmaninoff range is limited. Quite the contrary IMO.

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#1217820 - 06/15/09 10:32 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: LJC]
MarianneAlkonost Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
I am back with new rare photos from Novgorod Rachmaninoff Musical Center exhibition:


Rachmaninoff and Toscanini
_________________________
http://www.rachmaninoff.org/board/

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#1217848 - 06/16/09 12:04 AM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: MarianneAlkonost]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
LJC
What features in the picture make you conclude it isa NY and not a Hamburg Steinway?

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#1218870 - 06/17/09 08:10 PM Re: Rachmaninoff rare pictures 2 [Re: Andromaque]
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1543
Loc: New York
LJC
What features in the picture make you conclude it isa NY and not a Hamburg Steinway?

The arm of the piano case is squared off and not rounded, the pedal box is lower in height. There are several other features that would give it away as a NY piano but this photo is too dark to show these details. A NY S&S has a kind of layered look above the front legs where the Hamburg is seamless. In later models the NY D does not have a lock. NY D has 3 ribs to support the lid instead of 2. The Hamburg has a latch knob on the treble side in the curve. The music desks have different styles. The finish on the NY is lacquer except on special order, the modern Hamburg has a polyester finish but not in the 1930s. The Hamburg has a mahogony inner rim, the NY inner rim is painted. The plates had different castings but not for the last few years. There are other less obvious differences in construction.

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