I don't quite understand why my theme was closed up.

I beg your pardon, there are still things we have to talk about!

For example - have you ever seen these two photos enlarged:




They are from the German site rachmaninoff.de, but I never met these two photos elsewhere...

It was due to the troll that was infesting the topic.

Keep the good stuff coming!

Wow Marianne! Thank you! Quality stuff.

The greater composer:



Not wanting to tinkle in anybody's cereal -Rachmaninov knew what he was best at- but the emotional range of his music is extremely limited and quite repetitive. (The 3rd concerto is basically a repeat of the 2nd, the 2nd symphony makes good what he didn't in the 1st.) I don't think he came within a mile of his great contemporaries, Mahler, Strauss, Sibelius, Nielsen or Elgar. I suspect Rachmaninov knew that.

That's okay. I love Rachmaninov very much -and the composers I list wrote nothing of importance for the piano- but I feel we need to keep the perspective.

Keep those pics coming.

The greater composer, though.

SAYS YOU!!

Care to be a bit more specific, otherwise your post is just 'I disagree.'

Why don't you back it up?

Let's not let this topic go south like the other one.

Stick to PICTURES.

Okay. Sorry about that.

Jaosn, You're reason for statements is no more compelling than mine but I'll just leave it at I disagree.

Fair enough, my good mate.

I still adore Rachmaninov and I will spin a CD for you!

Let's see- how about the D minor Sonata? Nah, the Rhapsody, IMO utterly superb stuff.

Both of the piano concertos are very powerful and full of emotion. The only reason why the two seem so similar is because of the same mood in both pieces (which would be due to rachmaninoff's same emotional state while writing both). However, both have pretty distinct melodies. He created tons of great melodies. None of them are copies of each other.

I know some of those other composers were virtuosos on their instruments too...but...We probably don't get to see that much of rachmaninoff's diversity because he was heavily focused on performing and conducting.

And what about the two greats: mozart and bach? Are they not repetitive, in a sense?

All the great composers are repetitive. Part of their greatness is knowing that their audience may not catch it the first time.

I have never seen those pictures before either. I have no idea if larger versions are available. Thanks for sharing.

I am fairly sure the first picture is from a series of photos taken when Rachmaninoff attended rehearsals of Eugene Ormandy conducting the Symphonic Dances. I have a larger copy of this somewhere. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of moving house at the moment and don't have access to it. Once I'm settled, I'll dig out the picture.

The second photo appears to have been taken at his house, Senar, in Switzerland.

Exactly so! One can recognise Senar straight away...
Thank you! I will look forward to see this picture thanks to you!

Thank you for your replyies, dear friends.

argerichfan, your view on the scale of Rachmaninoff's work is hugely individual... It is the choice of personal preferences. But there are undisscussible ways to know whether the composer is worth listening - his fame. Rachmaninoff's Vocalise is one of the most often performed piece, Rachmaninoff's Elegie is his best chef-d'oeuvre comparable only to the Moonlight Sonata to my mind... Have you ever heard them and felt nothing?

So let me post some new. First of all we appreciate the pictures where SVR is playing the piano, so this one is among them and is very rare:



I wish I knew where and when it was taken... Any ideas?

My guess is this is the late 30's judging by the style of clothes of the audience. This photo was probably taken in the US. That's a New York Steinway D. If it were in Europe most likely he'd be playing a Hamburg D. I wonder how these people got to sit on stage with R. A great seat even if it's on the wrong side of the piano. Yet another great photo from Marianne!

Jason, I love Rachmaninoff as much as I do Chopin in terms of writing for the piano. I could no longer live without them as without the other great contemporaries you mentioned.

Ok, now get back to those great pictures!





~Valerie

I'm less sure about this one but I still fairly confident this is actually taken from an advertisement. It may not be a picture of Rachmaninoff in performance. I think it's taken from an Ampico advert implying that by buying an Ampico recording of Rachmaninoff, it's as good as having him perform for you in your room. I have collected most of the Ampico, acoustic and Steinway advertisements of Rachmaninoff and think I have this among them. Again, when I finally unpack all my stuff in my new house I will be able to check.

timbo77, exactly so!!! I look forward to get more information from you, it seems you have a precious archive!

As long as I understand viewing the replies in this and previous topic with the same name there is kind of desire of those who write (let's say some of them) to feel that Rachmaninoff was a human being, not a deity and kind of "one of us".



Hope this picture will prove it enough so that we can just enjoy it and never try to make our own humorous inscriptions under SVR's pictures... simply because he hasn't got the chance to do the same thing with us - that would be fair - wouldn't it? :-)

Cool, thanks for the pics.

Even if the 'emotional range' of his music would be extremely limited (I'm not saying it is), certainly he excelled within the limited range he operated in.

By the way, if you're going to judge him as a composer, you should also take his choral works into account. I find it incredible music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiSiRAZRCVA&fmt=18

BTW, Marianne, you are welcome to contribute pictures of Rachmaninoff to my thread:

The Ultimate Picture Thread

Marianne -- I love the photo of Rachmaninoff cutting a cake. Can you tell me more about it and where it came from? I would venture it was taken in the early 1940s.

It is from the collection of Emil Gilels - Rachmaninoff's relatives gave him a dozen of photos as a present:
http://emilgilels.com/gallery.php

Here are some new for today - Rachmaninoff making records for Edison company:

Dang, that's a big dog!

Even if the 'emotional range' of his music would be extremely limited (I'm not saying it is), certainly he excelled within the limited range he operated in.

I do not agree that Rachmaninoff's emotional range or any other Rachmaninoff range is limited. Quite the contrary IMO.

I am back with new rare photos from Novgorod Rachmaninoff Musical Center exhibition:


Rachmaninoff and Toscanini

LJC
What features in the picture make you conclude it isa NY and not a Hamburg Steinway?

LJC
What features in the picture make you conclude it isa NY and not a Hamburg Steinway?

The arm of the piano case is squared off and not rounded, the pedal box is lower in height. There are several other features that would give it away as a NY piano but this photo is too dark to show these details. A NY S&S has a kind of layered look above the front legs where the Hamburg is seamless. In later models the NY D does not have a lock. NY D has 3 ribs to support the lid instead of 2. The Hamburg has a latch knob on the treble side in the curve. The music desks have different styles. The finish on the NY is lacquer except on special order, the modern Hamburg has a polyester finish but not in the 1930s. The Hamburg has a mahogony inner rim, the NY inner rim is painted. The plates had different castings but not for the last few years. There are other less obvious differences in construction.

With daughter Tatiana


As a young man

Great photos Marianne!

Indeed so! Happy to share with you!!!

Funny, but it seems nobody in the archives ever noticed Rachmaninoff on this photo by Alfred Eisenstaedt:



http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/50474020/Time-Life-Pictures

I've searched for Bruno Walter and found out this photo and recognised Rachmaninoff, this photo one can find in more good quality on google.com source:life and there again no mentioning of Rachmaninoff :-)

Fascinating stuff! Thanks for sharing.

Your are welcome!!!

Here is one more, the loveliest!



Isn't it?

That's cute! Is that a daughter or a niece or something?

That's his granddaughter - Sophia!

Ah, I should have known. Cute!

his nose is very impressive.. so aristocratic.

I'm glad this got bumped up again. the photos are fantastic.

You are welcome!

And I am glad that I've finally come across the photos enlarged that I've been searching for in the start of the topic. Here they are:





The last photo was obviously made in Senar. As long as I've seen on the photos from modern Senar it looks a bit the same way with the same number of photos on the shelve...

that's a well used piano seat.

Thanks again for the pics! Interesting that that Hamburg Steinway has a New York lyre.

Thank you Marianne for these wonderful old photos - especially SR in his natural habitat - dog, granddaughter, birthday cake - I love it!

It is touching to see this images from a world that has vanished - these people are my heroes even if the rest of the world seems to have moved on to other things -

I have a volume of translations of Akhmatova's poetry filled with wonderful photos of people who seem so interesting I wish I could go into the photos and talk to them - they would have to indulge me and speak english of course - Blok, Mandelstam, Biely - a lost world

There was a thread devoted to Elgar for those who wanted to know more

Here it is:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1213592/1.html

with Sir Henry Heyman (violinist) in the Bohemian Grove

Another fascinating photograph...both enjoying cigars too.

Thanks for sharing.

Interesting that that Hamburg Steinway has a New York lyre.

Wow, Good one H.

I can't decide between the granddaughter sitting on the piano, or Rach. cutting the birthday cake.

Thanks so much for sharing these photos.

Wow, amazing pics! I love the one with his granddaughter

Two more

Thanks, I sort of just "saw" that all of a sudden. Does catch the eye!

A very rare audio of Rachmaninoff's cousin, teacher and main producer - Alexander Ziloti:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRScpZgQkIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usHzl5_afb4

Plus rare photos!


Rachmaninoff and Russian writer Ivan Bunin


Lifar, Aleksinskaya, Rachmaninoff, Paris 1939


Rachmaninoff and Medtner, Florence, 1924


Rachmaninoff and his daughter Tatyana

!!!!!! NO!!!!! The emotional range is amazing in his music.. I mean I get emotionally completely drained every time I play the 2nd sonata!! And the 2nd concerto! Rach 2 and 3 are extremely different.. structure-wise and harmonically and mood-wise.. How can those harmonies in the Intermezzo of Rach 3 not melt you.. or in the cadenza.. or the second symphony - especially in the development of the slow movement! Rach is the one composer I feel the closest to

I really have to agree with Angelina, here. I think you're out of your mind, if you think Rach's emotional level is extremely limited, and/or repetitive. He propels me out of my seat every time I hear the 3rd concerto, which has nothing to do with the 2nd...I'm sorry, but the notion, that the former is nothing more than a repeat of the latter, is nonsense. Strauss, Sibelius, Nielsen, and Elgar are superior composers (yes, I realize I left out Mahler)? I can't even take that seriously. Opinion, is what it is, I suppose.

Hey! Mahler is great!!!!

Btw I must say I am loving the pictures!!!

Tis the reason I left him out of the list of "superior" composers.

Marianne,
I have enjoyed the pictures of Siloti with Liszt and with Tchaikovsky on your website (along with the dedications). Very interesting. Are these photos in private hands?

These photos were published on the postcards, so I guess they are not in the private collection but rather in public sharing!

One more rare photo of Rachmaninoff

What a wonderful picture!!!

Just what I was wanting--- a photo of Rach driving his speedboat. And I'm still waiting for one of the poker parties he used to have at his summer home. Got to be some shots of that somewhere; it's too choice.

I snapped these when I was in the Library of Congress seven years ago.

A very idyllic desk to compose upon! Did you check the drawers for any lost compositions??

Thank you so so so much for these unique photos! What a beautifull piece of furniture!

Library of Congress I guess has many more rare unique treasures about Rachmaninoff... Wish I will be still alive when they will be revealed... Are there no researchers that have true interest in Rachmaninoff that could publish something from his archives that are kept in Library of Congress?

One new rare picture



S.V.Rachmaninoff with Serge Jaroff and his Don Cossack choir

They say Rachmaninoff taught Jaroff how to direct the orchestra.

I wish I knew, whether there has been done a complete record of Rachmaninoff's Vespers by Serge Jaroff Don Cossack Choir, or Rachmaninoff Liturgy of St. John Chrysostem?

I've come across only two records, one is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhHAEzM57hU

Rejoce, O Virgin

The other one (To Thee we sing) I will upload later.
I am really interested in rare records of Rachmaninoff works, if you can help, please write! Thank you!

One more archive photo of Rachmaninoff

SV Rachmaninoff with his wife Natalie, his daughter Irina and grand-daughter Sofia

1920-es

They see me rollin', they hatin',

They say this is somewhere in New York subway. I wish I knew when it was made!

What would be really cool: seeing the original hand-written scores for some of his pieces.
Nice Pictures.

Thank you, Batuhan! A photo with Walt Disney and Horowitz :-)

JesseOffy, will this do?

AWESOME! I went from being half asleep to fully excited! Thanks.

You are welcome!!!

Here is one more rare photo

It's been said that R. may not have been a great composer, but he was for sure the composer of a few great pieces. The world would be lesser without his works.

What a thoroughly fascinating thread, Marianne! I had seen it previously, but this is the first time I've gone through it.

I agree with the person who indicated that Rachmaninov's choral music is the most overlooked area of his compositional output, and IMO his best. About 35 - 40 years ago, I was part of a choral group who presented several unpublished Rachmaninov works, compliments of a Russian emigre who sang bass in that choir and provided them to the director. They were very gripping, very haunting. I speak as one who has never been a great fan of Rachmaninov's piano music and overall esthetic (I'm much more of a Prokofiev fan), but his choral compositions are very considerable indeed.

What an enjoyable thread! I'm inspired to practice. Maybe Rachmaninoff today.

I was thinking the same. Maybe I should visit the middle section of the C-sharp minor Prelude.

I've seen most of the photos above, but a few I've never seen anywhere before. Thanks to all for posting them. I have a few of Rach myself and will try to add them at some point. Did I read that someone said Rach 3 is basically a repeat of the 2nd? Ummm, hello! The 3rd blows everything else clean out of the water and the 2nd doesn't even come close.

Brahms 1 and 2?? Beethoven 4??

Ok, so I should have maybe chosen my wording a little more carefully. Rach 3 is my favorite concerto...ever. It doesn't blow EVERYTHING else out of the water, but there isn't another concerto that I know of that will take it's place for me. I suppose it's because I became attached to Rach 3 (with Horowitz) when I was still very young (about 13). I wore out that recording and to this day there are only a few pianists who have convinced me with their take. It does, however, blow Rach2 out of the water...sorry 2 fans.

I guess the same is with me and Brahms 1, because I first heard it when I was not much older than that. I really shouldn't be learning it now (it's too daunting for me to actually play it well), but I can't help it.

Many of my friends say the second is superior, and as much as I do love the B flat, and maybe it is superior, but... They can have fun with that, I'll have fun with the D Minor.

You are welcome! If You have a chance, please do! We will all be most gratefull to You!

One more rather rare photo!

What a great thread with some very cool pics and some very cool information. Thank you all for the postings! Rach is my favorite composer. His music is just so powerful and moving.

That photo was taken at a concert at Wellesley College in Wellesley, Massachusetts in the 1940s.

There is a pic of Rachmaninoff before the concert in the Green Room warming his hands with an electric heating pad and greeting some of the Wellesley girls in the booklet that comes with the "Earl Wild's Legendary Rachmaninoff Song Transcriptions" CD. You can download the booklet here:

http://www.ivoryclassics.com/releases/74001/

and direct link to pdf:

http://www.ivoryclassics.com/releases/74001/pdf/booklet.pdf

There are some great photos of Rachmaninoff in the booklet.


And of course the CD is wonderful.



A bargain at $9.50 from Amazon sellers:

http://www.amazon.com/Earl-Wilds-Legendary-Rachmaninoff-Transcriptions/dp/B00022LJ4C

Beautiful music by Rachmaninoff, and fantastic transcriptions and passionate playing by Earl Wild.


Mel

These wonderful original transcriptions Wild wrote of the Rach songs are among the most beautiful piano recordings I have ever heard!