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#1202482 - 05/19/09 10:45 PM New Mason & Hamlin AA - Questions
Zooplibob Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 244
Loc: Houston, TX
I played on an incredible M&H AA at the dealer today and was totally amazed. However, there were a few things wrong with it, and I wanted to know if they are common and/or easily fixable by the final tuning and regulation.
1) The notes F# G G# A and A#, 2 octaves below middle C, seemed kind of dead. They were kind of muffled and didnt match the tone quality of everything else around it. Is this an issue with the strings or the hammer most likely, and can it be fixed?

2) The A# 2 octaves above middle C made sort of a high pitches ringing when played loudly. Same question about that.

3) Many of the keys themselves made sort of a swooshing sound (think felt rubbing together) when pressed. Is that because it is new and has to be "broken in?"

I'm being extremely picky (which of course I should for this price) and want an idea of what kind of things are easily fixable by a tech before I take delivery and what things I should see as "deal breakers" if I encounter them. Thanks a lot,
Jeff

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#1202527 - 05/20/09 12:21 AM Re: New Mason & Hamlin AA - Questions [Re: Zooplibob]
wg73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 63
For 1), I've noticed on every AA I've played (many) that the notes immediately around the bass/tenor transition sounded "nasal-ly". Not sure if these are the notes you're referring to, but I suspect it's a result of the scale design. You might check out the BB as the bass/tenor transition is almost undetectable. Otherwise, I really like these instruments.

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#1202529 - 05/20/09 12:33 AM Re: New Mason & Hamlin AA - Questions [Re: Zooplibob]
schwammerl Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 1925
Loc: Belgium
Hi Jeff,

Most of the phenonemons are due to a lack of dealer prep, some may have to do with the instrument not being broken-in.

E.g. [1] may improve after the instrument is played in a while but may also be a matter of voicing; the swooshing [3] you hear is likely in the trichord damper area: this may improve when the dampers get more compacted but techs will say it is a damper regulation issue i.e. damper felt touching the strings when lifting off and they might suggest trimming them as the tips descent to far below the strings.

So the dealer is either quite sloppy or you entered his showroom coincidentally at the worst moment possible.

Whatever get this wonderfull instrument play as it should BEFORE you commit yourself to anu deal.

schwammerl.

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#1202555 - 05/20/09 01:52 AM Re: New Mason & Hamlin AA - Questions [Re: schwammerl]
Zooplibob Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 244
Loc: Houston, TX
Thanks for the input. For [3], the sound is coming from the keys themselves, not the dampers. It almost sounded like they were rubbing against something felt-ish. Does that help?

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#1202571 - 05/20/09 03:11 AM Re: New Mason & Hamlin AA - Questions [Re: Zooplibob]
schwammerl Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 1925
Loc: Belgium
Jeff,

Re [3], I am not a tech and it is difficult to diagnose these things from a distance anyhow.

Keys should not produce that rubbing sound and I would ask the dealer to take care of it as it must be an easy fix.

schwammerl.

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#1202598 - 05/20/09 07:14 AM Re: New Mason & Hamlin AA - Questions [Re: schwammerl]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: boston north
No swooshing here.

No bass nasals.

No high A ringing.

I am picky too. My biggest problem has been the treble break. (D above middle C) It sounds 'different'.
It has been attended to by 2 techs.

Piano is now 2 yrs old and has had 2 regulations and voicing done per my request.

I hope your dealer attends to what you are hearing. When attention is paid to the AA's, they are beautiful pianos.

BB's are even better!!!

LL
_________________________
Let the people who think that life is a race get to the end ahead of you.

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#1202611 - 05/20/09 07:59 AM Re: New Mason & Hamlin AA - Questions [Re: lilylady]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 14698
Loc: New York City
Have the dealer fix everything before buying and have him tell you what caused the problem and what was done to fix it. Speculating about the causes/solutions seems irrelevant. If you still have doubts one can always have a tech inspect a new piano also.


Edited by pianoloverus (05/20/09 08:01 AM)

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#1202633 - 05/20/09 08:44 AM Re: New Mason & Hamlin AA - Questions [Re: pianoloverus]
rodmichael Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 334
Loc: Maryland
Originally Posted By: rodmichael
* "Key thumper" - They have their own machine that thumps all the keys for a hundred or more hours equating to a few months intensive use to seat and test all action parts. The intent is to get anything to break that's going to break in the shop not at home.
* Regulation: Phase 1 (12 hours)
- Bed key frame to key bed
- Lubricate key frame guide pins
- Polish capstans
- Set key dip at .390 on all keys
- Regulate end keys of each section completely
- Adjust hammer weight on remaining keys to match samples
- Escapement on remaining keys
- Drop on remaining keys
- Space hammers to string (square and travel as needed)
- Space repetitions to hammer shanks
- Space back checks with bending pliers
- Adjust jack to knuckle
- Adjust back checks
- Repetition springs
- Repetition lever height
- Readjust hammer height to samples
- Readjust hammer line slightly if needed for aftertouch
- Even out aftertouch on sharps with front rail punchings
- Retighten all action screws

Regulation: Phase 2 (8 hours)
- Adjust hammer height on remaining keys
- Escapement on remaining keys
- Drop on remaining keys
- Space hammers to strings
- Check spacing of repetitions to hammer shanks
- Space back checks with bending pliers
- Adjust jack to knuckle
- Adjust back checks
- Repetition springs
- Repetition lever height
- Readjust hammer height
- Reevaluate aftertouch on naturals, adjust slightly if needed
- Even out aftertouch on sharps by adding or removing front rail punchings
- Retighten all action screws
- Readjust back checks to 1-1/4" if geometry permits


On another thread (copied above) I iterated the standard dealer prep for their Mason& Hamlin grand pianos conducted by Piano Craft in Gaithersburg, MD. I purchased my AA a few weeks ago at Piano Craft and I have heard nothing resembling what you describe. I really have wonderful piano that really does sing (within the limits of my very limited ability). You should ask your dealer about their dealer prep and follow-up.

I am due for my 1st of 3 dealer paid in-home tunings in a couple of weeks. Although, I have heard nothing at this point to suggest tuning or voicing problems.
_________________________
Rod Michael
Mason & Hamlin AA, SN 93018
Yamaha CGP-1000, SN UCNZ01010
Zoom Q3



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