Hi everyone, this is my first post, I hope I do this right! I am a adult, beginner/intermediate level pianist. I started lessons about 8 years ago at age 42, and had a wonderful teacher, who was also a professor at the local college near me. Well do to health issues, age etc he retired, and I began researching, and looking around to find a new teacher. My previous teacher used a combo of Alfred adult piano books and Suzuki method. Well I contacted and was interviewed by the 'dean' of the local piano conservatory here in Columbus. Understand I am not, the over sensitive type, and I do try to take constructive advice or criticism well. But I have to say the results of my interview, did, seem to cause me to ponder and question my efforts to the point that I have not pursued another teacher, and I find my self not playing as much as I was, although I still feel it in my bones. The short of it was this 'conservatory dean' looked over my Alfred books, my Suzuki books, (I had made it to book 4) along with my other reading material and pretty much told me I had wasted my time for the last 8 years! That what I have been playing is children s pieces, and transcriptions of real works for little kids, that if this is all that I have advanced to in 8 years, then I was just wasting my time. She went on to say that my teacher must have been terrible to use the Suzuki methods with me, since I was an adult, and really put me back years in development. she said I should have been studying real works, not easy transcriptions, and should have been immersed in the Hannon studies. Pretty much she just said, I was wasting my time. Until this, I didn't feel I was, and really enjoyed playing, but now, I find myself just second guessing myself, and wondering If I was just kidding myself, in taking up the piano at age 42, with no previous instrumental or musical experience. Although I have loved classical music with a passion since the 7th grade, and did teach myself to read music to some extent so I could look through scores of symphonies etc. This may sound stupid to you all, but my question is, is she right?, or should I try to continue my search, and continue my interrupted piano journey? Was I wrong to have been using the Suzuki books?
Thanks
Paul in Columbus

Please don't let this conservatory dean discourage you. Sure, if your goal is to enter a conservatory, then the dean might have a point. If your goal is to play for pleasure, don't listen to the dean. There are many styles of teaching piano playing. Lots of players - like jazz greats - play by ear and never read music. So don't let the dean kill your enthusiasm or joy of learning. It is a journey.
There are alot people here that would be thrilled to be at your level. There are a lot of non-classically trained players. There are lots of self taught players who cannot do the things the dean is talking about, yet, they are perfectly happy. The dean has a very specific definition and goal as far as reading and studying classical literature, it sounds like.
If your goal is to master classical literature, then there may be something to what the dean said and you can find a teacher to take you on that path.

hi
just a quick question: DID SHE HEAR YOU PLAYING?
or she just looked at your books, etc?
If she heard your playing she may have a point (or not).
I agree 100% with guest1013 reply
Cheers!

I'm not quite sure what level the songs in the Suzuki method are at book 4. What this teacher was telling you, however, is that is what *she* would have done with you...the Hanon and studying repertoire written for your level of playing. That is just her opinion and her style of teaching. Obviously this teacher isn't the right fit for you.

Keep looking for a teacher who can pick up where the other left off. It is possible that your previous teacher left some holes that need to be filled, but that is not to diminish your accomplishments thus far or to discourage you. It just means you might need some more foundational work. I often get transfer students who need such work. But they learn it, and we progress, and that is certainly enjoyable to see one's progress, right? However, I think this dean was perhaps a bit too harsh with you and should have worded things a bit differently.

I have student who actually did waste her time with previous teachers. I didn't say as much, but I did tell her that there were some issues that as her teacher I felt it necessary to address. She agreed to try, and now a year later, she is enjoying piano more than ever.

so it may be true that your previous teacher focused a bit too much on learning by rote and not enough reading, or perhaps not enough technique, or whatever. But if you find a new teacher that will walk you through that stuff, it will result in you becoming a better pianist, and that is worth it, right? That doesn't automatically make what you learned before a waste, not at all! There are most likely some things that your new teacher won't have to work with you on because you learned them well from your other teacher. It's all a part of the process.

When you reach the end of adult Alfred 3 you start playing real works. The early stuff is to prepare you. From Alfred 3 my teacher has me starting the repertory pieces from the different eras...sounds like all you need is a teacher who frankly isn't a stuffed shirt, like this lady. Good luck and don't let anyone discourage you.

If she heard me play she would of probably thrown me out...

Reading this just adds another notch into the "why I don't use a teacher" folder.

I hope you find what you are looking for, please don't stop playing because someone doesn't agree with the way you were taught.

Paul,

It may be the case that given your desire to play classical repertoire that maybe the Suzuki method may not be the best method. I really don't know. Maybe the dean's criticisms were more about the Suzuki method and not necessarily about your ability to learn the classics. From your post it sounds like the dean is very critical of the Suzuki method as a way to learn classical repertoire.

If you were to search older threads on the Adult Beginners Forum you would find many persons who started learning to play the piano with no previous experience at ages older than 42 and are progressing well. You may wish to check out the various ABF recital threads and piano bars to hear recordings from various ABF forum members.

I encourage you to find a teacher that will make your dream of being able to play the classics a reality.

Best wishes,

Musictuary

Wow, what a creep that dean was. IMHO, of course

But seriously,

if you love playing, *you* are right, not her. As others here have said, the folks who are posters here in the ABF are *all* over the map in experience, styles, levels if one can define those. I've been playing oom-pah dance music for 15 years, including paid gigs. I guarantee you I wouldn't be anywhere near whatever level the dean thinks I should be at. I don't have a teacher (I had 2 years of lessons in my early teens). I love what I do, I learn something new all the time, and I play (probably early) intermediate popular sheet music. I love it.

As Morodiene said, when/if you get another teacher s/he will address different skills, and build on the ones you have. It'll be a whole new adventure. But I can't even begin to feel like 8 years of enjoying playing piano (or 15 of playing oom-pah) can even possibly be a waste of time. Give me a break :\

Well, rant over, and welcome to the ABF! We have a lot of friendly, helpful people here, and we'd love to hear how your piano journey continues. You might check out our recital - you'll be pleasantly surprised at the WIDE range of pieces/experience/styles there. And every one of us is having a great time. You'll fit right in.

Cathy

Well, as others have said, you should probably keep looking for another teacher who isn't quite so abrupt. But I also notice that your original post didn't really tell us what YOU expect of YOURSELF. Do you want to play classical or jazz or perhaps easy pop? Do you want to learn to improvise or to play from fake books? Do you want to become a fluent reader of sheet music? Until you can answer these questions for yourself it will be difficult for you to take charge of your own learning with or without a teacher and that, to me, is the real thrill of adult piano.

I will say that if classical music is your goal, I am somewhat surprised that you are not into real literature after 8 years of lessons. There is a TON of original (i.e. non-simplified) repertoire from serious composers that should be accessible to someone with your experience and I am curious why you haven't gotten to that yet (unless that isn't your goal).

Keep looking, you will find someone. I'm guessing the Dean has just lost sensitivity over the years, or had little to start. As stated there is music at all levels in the classical repetoire. I don't think it's correct to criticize what you play as opposed to offer guidance on how you play.

This whole years of development thing is a bit lame to me as well. 8 years with someone else would have led you down a different path, but you're still playing and if you're enjoying it and still progressing than its still a success. Until one analyzes their own goals it's impossible to say if you needed to move on, but you didn't lose your love of music or the piano and that can happen with an incorrect match of student to teacher.

As Morodiene says it's a process and there's no harm in stepping back in some respects to refocus and then move forward again. My excerpts of Bach, Anna's Notebook is on its way so I'll be back to grade 2 in no time. And I've been at this thing for fifteen years in my life.

Welcome to the forum, Bruckner!

I am so sorry you had this experience with the conservatory dean. I don't think I can say it any more emphatically: Your study in piano has NOT been a waste. By your own admission, you have learned and progressed and loved playing piano all these years. How can that NOT be considered a wonderful success?

My take on your unfortunate conversation is that this dean is used to a particular kind of student, and that is a typical music conservatory student--i.e., a student who started piano early in childhood and has the goal of becoming a professional pianist.

That is not you... and imo what I think you need is to find a teacher who is used to adult beginners and who is willing to work with you on reaching your goals for piano and music.

The dean is correct on one issue, which is that you are almost certainly capable of learning classical pieces as originally composed (because, after all, there are plenty of classical pieces written at all levels of difficulty). And if that is something you want as well (which I'm getting the impression it is), I would simply let prospective teachers know during interviews that your interest is in learning the classical repertoire as written rather than simplified arrangements.

As for Hanon, heck, you can search the archives here and you'll see the gamut of opinions regarding whether Hanon is good or bad for pianists. There are some teachers who don't have their students at ANY level play through Hanon.

Good luck, and don't let this experience discourage you from continuing in your piano journey. Go out and interview some other teachers, and keep looking until you find somebody who is a good fit for you.

You have the benefit of this lady's honest opinion, I will allow her that much. I hope you now know better than to study with someone like her; it would be too discouraging--- maybe for both of you. Get other opinions! Does your former teacher have no recommendations? How about talking to other people who are studying, a church choir director, music store owner, people you meet at concerts... there are many ways to find an appropriate instructor, in temperament as well as pedagogical skill.

One woman wrote on this forum recently that she thought learning to play the piano was more painful than having a baby. That would be beyond my experience, but I believed that she thought so. One thing I do believe is that it's not easy. Another thing I believe is that if you've been studying for eight years and have a love for the instrument, there is a teacher out there who is wishing they could find someone like you. But sitting on the couch and waiting for them to discover you by magic is unlikely to work. This is pianoworld, not Publisher's Clearinghouse. They say, "God gives every bird his food--- but he doesn't throw it into the nest."

So get out there, and try, and try, and try again.

Giving up your love is not going to get you anywhere. Don't give up--- take the advice you've received for what it's worth. Who knows, maybe that professor rues her words already. Or maybe she's one that's found that she needs to throw a firecracker under the piano bench to keep the student awake.

Teaching you could make the difference in a young teacher or conservatory student's being able to keep going financially... and someone will find you a pleasure to work with.

It would be great if you'd let us know.

OMG!
I don't even know where to begin to tell you how upset I am that this person could not express themselves in a constructive way. It seems their ego has taken over their good senses.

If you learned something and enjoyed it then the 8 years were not wasted. Maybe it's true that the teacher could have pushed you a little more to try more difficult pieces but that is something you can thinking about as you continue.

I have been through about four teachers. Two awful ones that made me want to quit. One that was so-so. And now I have a wonderful teacher and I have learned more from her than with the other three. I have been trough a lot of ups and downs. I stopped and started many times. But the key is that I never gave up.

Please do not allow ANYONE to discourage you from playing. Just keep going until you find the right teacher-and you will.

Remember "no one can make us feel inferior without out our permission". So don't waste another thought on the person.
Good luck.

I want to thank everyone who replied and offered their helpful advice. I am amazed, every single post to my problem was so helpful and so good, each in its own way, and from a different perspective. I agree with Kymber, life is never a straight line, nor a straight ascent, I just have to accept the peaks and valleys. I do hope to be able to play some classical works 'straight' (I did begin to start on the prelude number one from WTC by Bach before health issues took my first teacher. Therefore, Ill start plugging away on my own, and continue searching. I think one of the reasons that I reacted so emotionally over time to what was said, was as an adult, I feel somewhat unsure and a little hesitant at times to be taking up piano anyway, and perhaps my confidence was dented. Also, this happened in September, during the financial crisis, when I saw a lot of my retirement and my child's college funds decline (like most everyone else). So I began to beat myself up, with the idea that I was being selfish to indulge this dream, when My family and my daughter's dreams were also, being hit, especially if as what the 'dean' said was true, that I was just wasting my time. again though Thanks so much! This resource is great, and you people are wonderful, I sometimes have felt alone as an adult newbie, and it is great to find kindred spirits!
Paul

You are definitely not alone! There are many adult beginners and we are a dangerous species

Boira, bona tarda !

Bona tarda! (= good afternoon, for those who don't speak Catalan)

Bruckner, we're dangerous and we're worldwide!

And "Boira" means fog ! Lovely name ! Bonic!

There are many adult beginners and several of them happen to be the "pride and joy" of my studio. Right now my "star" student is a 74 year-old man who is discovering the absolute joy of playing the piano and studying music theory. His latest project has been to analyze the cadences of the pieces he is studying and he absolutely loves doing it and sharing his discoveries with me.

Unlike the music conservatory dean you encountered, I believe we who have the privilege to teach adult beginners need to meet each one of them in their space and help them discover what music and specifically playing the piano can do to enhance their lives whether it be from a Suzuki book or the Anna Magdelena Notebook.

Keep up the great work and remember - the more you play the better your day.

Dr. J

Grrrrrr! I haven't been around much lately, but this post made me so mad I had to chime in. Were you "wasting your time" raising your children because they didn't become billionaire Nobel Laureate doctors? Were you "wasting" your Saturday afternoons on the golf course because you didn't make the PGA tour? Maybe all your dates with people you didn't marry were a waste of time too. I have to wonder just what this "Conservatory Dean" expected of a 42-year-old beginner.
It seems she sees musical achievement as a harsh end-driven task with no value short of absolute mastery.


Speaking as a 50-year-old beginner, now 53, I can assure you there are many, many of us whose lives have been enriched (possibly saved, but that's another story) by learning music late in life. If you are 50 and playing Alfreds 4, you probably won't be playing Carnegie Hall anytime soon, but you have the foundation for gratifying and stimulating hobby you can enjoy for the rest of your life. Don't let this stuffed-shirt, full-of-herself, Dean ruin it for you.

Hello

The dean sounds like a skyscraper victim.

No one builds a skyscraper and then willingly jumps off the top of it, i.e. the Dean is very comfortable with a credentials approach (hers, of course)and therefore cannot contemplate much of anything else, even taking it to the rudeness of undermining your joy.

So just think of her wandering around, lonely as hell, on top of her skyscraper and you will feel better.

Hi, Bruckner,

Please, take comfort in the circle of adult beginners! I especially welcome you, because I, too, am in Columbus, and I always wanted lessons. I started last August at age 51, with the encouragement of a friend who is also an adult beginner. We are everywhere!

I still haven't explored all the joys of this forum, but when I have needed comfort or advice, it is here.

My current problem is that I have felt stalled since February, and I think I'll take a couple of months off and go it alone for a bit. Perhaps this would serve you well, to think about what you enjoy, what you want more of, whether you think you have any gaps that you'd like a teacher to help fill, etc. Or you can use the "off" time to interview teachers who enjoy teaching adults (contrary to the conservatory dean!).

Just wanted to add my bit of encouragement, too, Bruckner.

Learning piano as an adult is a great accomplishment. The fact that you love to play is even more important, to me, than what level or what music you're playing. That love of playing is what sustains you through the difficulties of learning - it's critical! And I'm so glad your previous teacher developed that in you, as well as guiding your playing along to steady growth.

I have a guess that you probably have excellent rhythm now as a result of the Suzuki influence! My niece takes Suzuki violin and her internal sense of rhythm developed so quickly it astonished me! Suzuki gets into quite complicated rhythms very quickly, and the listening work you do is great. I actually think it's a pretty interesting combination to use Alfred's with Suzuki.

Finding a teacher is a very personal thing. It may take you quite a few phone calls and interviews before you find someone that "clicks" for you. It's such a personal experience, private lessons, that you really need to feel comfortable with the teacher's interaction with you as the student (as well as be enthusiastic about the method/repertoire/curriculum you're going to learn). Some teachers don't have the experience or desire to teach adult beginners, and the result would be nothing but frustration.

SO glad you came and posted here after your negative experience with that dean. Put it out of your head! It makes me angry that you even had to experience that. Keep playing, and there is a wonderful teacher out there for you!

Best,

Kim

Mr. Bruckner,

Don't take this to heart. This woman is from the conservatory and expects all students that go there for lessons to be at a conservatory level.

What I suggest is take what you've learned from your first teacher as a foundation for learning something new from someone else. This woman did make a good point about learning the real classical pieces instead of the watered down kid's versions.

When you finally find a teacher that is willing to work with you, tell him or her that you want to learn the real versions of the pieces instead of the kid's versions. Also explain that you want to improve your technique using such things as Hanon. (Hint: Build on what the lady told you instead of taking it as a criticism).

The thing is, don't let the critcism hurt your willingness to learn or your enjoyment of the piano. Once that happens, you'll lose your interest and never be able to progress any more than you have.

In my opinion, this woman should have thought outside of her box. She's so wrapped up in her own conservatory world that she doesn't see that there are tother people out there that really enjoy music as much as, if not more than, the conservatory students.

I have a former teacher like that who makes snide remarks to me every time I mention wanting to learn something new. She treats me as second-class or lower compared to her Carnegie Hall days. After all, I never "made it" as she says. I never brought my music to the "other level" by memorizing it, and I didn't grovel over the piano, or did the "hard" work as she calls it. She tells me that I never learned to memorize therefore the music is never finished, etc.

Well sorry former teacher (I think this all the time), I was never given the chance to progress that far, and I don't care at this point in my life if I memorize anything or not. The amount of time we have is very limited compared to full-time musicians. I want to enjoy the music instead of struggling for months at a single piece to get it memorized and "perfected." By the time I have that opportunity, I'll be totally blind and unable to play anyway!

This goes for the most of us up here in PW, it's all for enjoyment, which is what music should be in the first place!

These people that act this way, in my opinion, really don't love music anymore. Instead they've become music snobs that look down their noses at the rest of us. For them the music has become a chore rather than a true passion that it once was. They forget where they were when they first started out in this journey called music.

John

Paul,
My first good teacher said about the same thing to me. I had been taking lessons for about 6 years and was in John Thompson's book 4 or 5. She said the same thing about playing real works and not transcriptions. OK she did not come right out and say I had "wasted my time"...she was nicer than that.

She was a Benedictine nun and I was in jr. high. It was....uhh...over 30 years ago.

So it's not an "adult student" thing.

The thing is...I had not really wasted my time, and neither have you. You may not realize it, and the conservatory dean never got a chance to find out...but you have been learning things in those 8 years. Just like I had learned in my 6 (at that point). And I was lucky enough that Sister C. realized it. She took me on as a student and I learned a tremendous amount from her.

Unfortunately, I was quite a bit behind other students...my age and even younger...and neither I nor my parents realized that didn't really matter and I could get caught up.

No time spent with music is ever really "wasted"...you may not find out what important things you learned in your 8 years of lessons but if you were taking Suzuki I can guess that it involved listening carefully which is a Very Very important thing to learn!

Moving slowly does not mean you are wasting time. It means you are learning thoroughly and have time to relax and make music! In my case, my first 2 teachers were just not very good, but in yours, your original teacher was a college professor so I am sure you got a very good foundation. In fact, it's entirely possible that your first teacher was more "old school" than the dean (your comment on his retirement suggested he is quite a bit older).

Did he suggest you talk to the dean? Can you contact him and talk to him a bit? Ask him for suggestions for your next teacher?[i][/i][u][/u]