Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
137 registered (Albert Brighten, Alexander Borro, accordeur, alans, 34 invisible), 1426 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Topic Options
#1203206 - 05/21/09 03:14 AM How do you lose compulsion fo rfull notation?
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Some of the best non-classical pianists I know play "by heart / by hand" or with just lead sheets or their own summary cheat sheets.

They have completely weaned themselves from the need to slavishly follow a detailed notated score.

For those trained as classical pianists, how did you manage to let loose? What would be a good self-study program to build up the baggage, vocabulary, chord and key knowledge, etc. to be able to take this path?

Top
Piano & Music Accessories
#1203231 - 05/21/09 06:06 AM Re: How do you lose compulsion fo rfull notation? [Re: theJourney]
jotur Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 6029
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Well, some of them never got in the habit of relying on sheet music in the first place smile

It seems to me, in my attempts, that a great part of the trick is to be willing to enjoy being a beginner again. I was always surprised when I'd sit down and just noodle - I didn't really think I could, and I was pleasantly surprised.

But to actually learn to do it with ease takes the same kind of time and commitment as learning to play with sheet music did, and there's distinctly a learning curve, which is why being willing to enjoy it is important. I actually think going cold turkey for 6 months or something is the best idea, tho I've never done that. But I do play from lead sheets and can do some rudimentary improvisation, and sat down this eve and played Tennessee Waltz in 4 different keys, and played without sheet music at jam tonight, so I've come some ways.

What was a real revelation to me (and I am admittedly an intermediate piano player) is that it's *all* about the *sound.* I hear in a whole different way than when I was only reading notes (and I know there are classical players who hear well). So the best advice I ever got was - listen, listen, listen.

One way to start is to team up with another musician who can play the melody while you accompany - a flute player, or violinist maybe - and play simple songs you both know. I accompany dance music, so I learned to read a lead sheet. But I think again, enjoying it is key, because it isn't always going to work right off the bat. You can start with just using block chords, or even just a tonic, as accompaniment. Then try simple patterns - all the LH patterns from Canon in D are useful in playing accompaniment or lead sheets smile

Another way is to join one of the study groups in the ABF - jazzwee has a great one on how to begin to play Autumn Leaves, here:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ite_id/1#import

There's another one called "How to play from a lead sheet" and one on "Pop Piano Pro."

And then there's always - pianomagic. It's an on-line play-be-ear course. A search in the ABF will bring up *many* threads. But again, being willing to be a beginner is key. Rosanna, a fairly accomplished player, made the decision to do it the pianomagic way, and she's played some lovely by ear and improvisations in the piano bars and recitals. Several people there - Seaside_Lee and mahlzeit for instance - learned to play piano that way. But Seaside spent 3 or 4 hours a day over the past 4 years, just like good classical pianists do.

It's also interesting to read Mr. Super-Hunky's take on it - he reads, but slowly, and improvises all of his pieces, and he does lovely work. He says over and over that it's about finding out where on the piano the sound you want comes from, and spending the time to explore it.

But I think it really comes down to being willing to take the risk, and be a beginner again, and enjoy it, and not give up as you work your way thru the study groups, or figure out the chords with a friend, or ask questions in the forums at pianomagic. It's really liberating, though.

That's my take on it, any way.

Cathy
_________________________
Cathy

Practice like you are the worst; play like you are the best - anonymous

Top
#1203374 - 05/21/09 11:05 AM Re: How do you lose compulsion fo rfull notation? [Re: jotur]
jjo Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 697
Loc: Chicago
I know where you're coming from. For 40 years I played from music and now I'm studying jazz with a teacher. It's a completely different mentality.

The key is the harmony. You absolutely must study the chords, and how they change in a piece. If its jazz you want to play, you must learn all the basic seventh chords and their alterations. You need to learn the basic chord sequences, starting with II-V-I. If it's just pop, learn those harmonies. Everything builds from the harmony. Your ear begins to hear the harmony equally with the melody. You learn to play the chords in many different ways (voicings), and all that matters is that you are playing the right chord.

When I memorize a piece now, I memorize the chord changes, not notes. Then, I can either play the melody, or improvise on top of the changes. When I make a mistake in the melody, it's no big deal. The key is do I know what chord comes next. There is a book (I forget the name), that has you memorize a piece by improvising over the chord changes in bars 1 and 2, then 2 and three, then 3 and 4, and then 1-4. That way you get comfortable with automatically knowing what chord comes next.

How do you learn harmony? I have a teacher. If it's jazz you want to learn, and on your own, a common book is the Jazz Piano Book. Much of that is oriented towards playing on groups, but it has all the stuff for solo playing, as well.

Hope this helps.

Top
#1203382 - 05/21/09 11:19 AM Re: How do you lose compulsion fo rfull notation? [Re: jjo]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
I was looking at charts of tunes composed by Taylor Eigsti, Aaron Parks.. etc, while the note part of sight reading isn't too bad, the rhythm and harmony is quite complex. There are a lot of written parts with very detailed arrangement... so these guys are quite capable of playing detailed score and they do it quite often. What amazes me is that they are able to get it right in couple of takes.

I think the biggest difference between classical sight reading is that you have to rely on your ears a lot more. In classical sight reading you tend to pay more attention to phrasing and such, but you don't have to necessary understand what's going on harmonically. For jazz musicians it's crucial they know what's going on rhythmically and harmonically, and what kind of feel it requires.

Top
#1203412 - 05/21/09 12:07 PM Re: How do you lose compulsion fo rfull notation? [Re: etcetra]
jotur Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 6029
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Here's a link to an old thread in the ABF in which many people eventually contributed improvisations on Mary Had a Little Lamb, or she had a @#$!! as this thread says, which is terrific for understanding how creative one can be smile

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1041238/1.html

It's one of my favorite threads of all time laugh

Cathy
_________________________
Cathy

Practice like you are the worst; play like you are the best - anonymous

Top

Moderator:  sharpsandflats 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
Back to School Music SALE!
Save 10% in our online store
.
Just enter SAVE10 in the coupon box during checkout. *
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
* Sale does not apply to advertising, how old requests, or any non-tangible items. Can not be combined with any other promotions. Ends August 31, 2015
(ad) Teaching Children Music
Teaching Music to Children
(ad) Yamaha Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP4 & CP40 Stage Pianos
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tours
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Student Q: Do "Non-Taubman" Teachers teach Forearm Rotation?
by ClsscLib
08/28/15 03:22 PM
Hiiii Everyone , Kyfran54 présentation :D
by Kyfran54
08/28/15 01:44 PM
Mainstage 3.2
by Leonid
08/28/15 12:55 PM
What works better with piano?
by MaggieGirl
08/28/15 11:59 AM
PE-2 Pedal Extender question for owners
by ViennaAutumn
08/28/15 11:55 AM
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
80,554 Registered Members
44 Forums
166,482 Topics
2,439,900 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission