Hello,

I am a beginner rebuilding a 1969 Steinway model Z, and I have a question about hammer brands.

The hammers on the piano, as is the piano, are in bad shape, and therefore need replacing. I would like nothing more than to be able to just order a new set of Renner hammers, and a complete set of strings, but as i am on a budget, I am looking for an alternative.
so my searches led me to several options.
Abel Hammers. which are decent yet a stretch from what i plan to pay
Newoctave -- i have no idea about the quality, the price is good but they didn't answer my email.
Ronsen hammers -- just like newoctave, not a clue about quality and no reply.

There's this independent manufacturer of bass strings and hammers, who goes by the name of Isaac, but i'm sure it's not in my league.
The piano rebuild is an enormous task, and would take a huge budget if i don't keep it in check.
The other question is about the casing. The wood of the original casing is not solid wood, but a sandwich type. it's a surprise, and i'm wondering, if we disregard the price, would it be beneficial to have the casing remade from hard wood, such as mahogany or even ... brace yourselves.. Olive?

if anyone is interested in helping me, this piano has a very dramatic story, and i am hoping that i can appeal to the more sentimental technician.

Before anyone asks, the nearest piano technician is 1200 miles away.



Thanks all

Tempogen,

Hammers is one of the places you don't want to economize on. Sure, you might save $100 going with a more mass produced hammer but when you consider how many hours you are going to have into this project is it really worth the savings? The hammers have a major impact (no pun intended!) on tone, and good hammers will be easier for a less-experienced technician to voice.

For a beginner I strongly recommend buying a set of Abel hammers. They sound pretty good "right out of the box" and are some of the easiest hammers to work with.

Having a custom cabinet made would be enormously expensive and would have no real benefit. Even the best pianos made today use laminated wood for the cabinets.

And the best a hundred years ago. It's about stability, not some imagined "solid-wood integrity".

Thank you both. so i guess the alternative, is refinishing the original casing. funny, i thought it would at least have SOME acoustic benefit, scientifically speaking.harder woods should transmit sounds faster.

And i agree. Abel hammers do seem like a good choice. with the exception that i can't seem to get them shipped for the 220$ i have put aside for the hammers. what's even crazier is the price of "restoring" the original hammers, which i found to cost 525 GBP in one site...

The job of the cabinet is primarily to provide rigidity. It is often said that some of the older pianos that were massively overbuilt project sound better due to the increased rigidity of the cabinets. In terms of rigidity laminated wood is actually a better choice as you can alternate the direction of the grain between plys which not only improves rigidity but adds resistance to warping.

Thanks for clearing that up steve..

so is there like a piano parts classifieds around here somewhere?
I want to put out a wtb...

Hello,

Bumping this old thread instead of posting a new one...

So, i've been ordering parts and screwing around with this rebuild, and now that i have finished repairing / replacing individual parts, i want to put the whole thing together. so, i installed a single note on the action, and mounted it to try and see how i'm doing. thing is, i'm not really sure where the hammers are supposed to hit the strings. I removed the old hammers, and got a fresh set from Renner. so today i put the first hammer on the shank of the note i installed. and i noticed after attaching it to the shank and pushing the wippen, that the key hits the first note - from the right - right on a ridge in the plate, rather than the free part of the strings. Yes, i am a total and utter noob. but i need to know, is this where the hammer is supposed to hit? there is no change in the shanks regarding height, and the hammer is identical to the original regarding the hole, and it is fully attached on the shank...


thanks

The hammers should hit approximately one eighth or ninth of the speaking length of the string. For a top note speaking length of 2" (25mm), that is a distance of 1/4" (6mm) from the top of the speaking length.

Disclaimer: I am not a tech, and I might be wrong about this (but I am sure the techs will correct me and give much better advice).

It is important to set the striking point right to be able to get the best tone and volume.The hammer must contact the string in its speaking length, somewhere between 1/7 and 1/9 of this length.

Are you sure about the dimensions of these parts being equal to the original ones?

What about the angles? If the shank is not inserted at the correct angle(s), the striking point would change, even if the other parts are of the right dimensions.

What kind of hammer set did you order exactly? Pre-bored? Pre-hung? Pre-something? Just the hammer heads with nothing done to them? (I think the techs could use that information to be able to try to help you).

What sources are you using to guide you through this? By reading this thread, I feel you might not have all the knowledge you need to have before attempting hammer replacement and restringing. Not that I know about this, either... Just saying.

Model Z?

BDB, 2" is not 25mm, it's 50.8mm.

ok... Thanks BDB and 88keys.
Erus, you are right, i am in no way qualified for the job, but i am doing it anyway for two reasons : there are no piano technicians for hundreds of miles from where i am. and it gives me something to do in a very long vacation i'm taking.

So all that aside, i will use some terminology : the hammer hits the string right at the front duplex bridge, under the agraffe.. the parts are identical to the best of my knowledge, and the hammers are pre-bored. i sent my model and serial number to Renner Germany, and got the hammers, which are supposed to be compatible. if i finish attaching the notes to the rail, i'm sure the rest of the hammers would strike in the right spots, but this very first one is getting me anxious about what i'm missing...

Hammer strike point is very important. Small adjustments can mean the difference between just alright tone and great tone. Don't just set them between 1/7 and 1/9th of the string length and call it done. To see how important it is take a look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3muV4ueVBc

A Z is an upright. It was made in Hamburg.

Yes, I meant 50 mm. I think in inches!

Thanks for the clarification BDB. I don't think I've ever, that I can remember anyway, of course, I can't remember what I posted yesterday so, take that for what it's worth, seen a model Z and I've tuned a lot of peeaners.

Hello,

I found out what's wrong. it's not the hammers or shanks, it's the way the action is attached. there seems to be something missing that keeps the action at a distance from the strings. i discovered this when i tested the dampers. there wasn't enough room for them to move as they were sticking to the plate. I wonder what's missing...

Take out all the pedal rods before putting the action in. Make sure the action brackets are on the action posts correctly, and that they are firmly seated on the action bolts. On newer pianos sometimes I need to put a big screwdriver on the bracket just below the bolt and whack the end of the handle with my palm to get it in.