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#1208923 - 05/30/09 10:44 PM The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today!
Zarathustra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 20
So, I haven't dedicated nearly as much of my life to piano as most of the individuals here have. In my case, however, I've dedicated the majority of my life to science; and that is indeed the field where I've had most of my education thusfar. I've focused relatively heavily on motor learning and cognition throughout my education and the research I've done to date, so I'm relatively familiar with the key papers and ideas.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a profound gap between science and the arts; some of the posts I see here are, quite frankly, shockingly contrary to the principles of motor learning that have been researched over the last few decades. I'm sure the posts are good-willed, but I felt a pang of sadness reading the thread about the book "The Talent Code".

So, I will use this thread - assuming people are interested - to regularly post important research relevant to piano playing or acquisition of motor skills in general. There's plenty of research that should be able to help you take your learning up a notch!

If anyone has anything specific they would like me to look into, just let me know.
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#1208925 - 05/30/09 10:46 PM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Zarathustra]
Zarathustra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 20
Musicians’ Practice Strategies and Retention of Motor Skills
Duke et. Al, 2004

So, let's start with something simple and straightforward. Common sense to some, but hopefully others will find this helpful. Duke et. Al, 2004 conducted a study on effective practice habits. A group of advanced pianists were carefully observed during acquisition, and the details of their practice habits were recorded.

The factor most indicative of a high level of performance during a subsequent retention test was the number of complete, error-free performances of the material during practice. The method of practice was found to have be dependent on the the practice methods employed, not the total amount of practice time.

*A retention test is a standard method test of measuring performance, where participants go a few days without practicing the target material, at which point they are tested. (This is done because fast learners often tend to be fast forgetters – I'll cover this point some other time!)

Furthermore, Simmons et al noted specific practice habits that were correlated with faster rates of acquisition:

“1. Playing is hands-together early in practice
2. Playing is with inflection early on; the initial conceptualization of the music is
with inflection
3. Practice is thoughtful, as evidenced by silent pauses while looking at the music,
singing/humming, making notes on the page, or expressing verbal “ah-ha”s
4. Errors are preempted by stopping in anticipation of mistakes
5. Errors are addressed immediately when they appear
6. The precise location and source of each error is accurately identified, rehearsed,
and corrected
7. Tempo of individual performance trials is systematically varied; logically
understandable changes in tempo occur between trials (slow down enough; do not
speed up too much)
8. Target passages are repeated until the error is corrected and the passage is
stabilized, as evidenced by the error’s absence in subsequent trials
9. When tempo is changed, the first trial at the new tempo is accurate
10. After the initial learning phase errors are intermittent (no persistent errors)
11. At least 20% of all starts are complete, correct performances, though not
necessarily at the target tempo “

-Quoted from Simmons (2007)

As far as I know, this article cannot be found online, so I don't have a link; sorry!

If interest is shown, I'll be updating with research fairly regularly – there are so many fascinating things that have been found! Unfortunately, rarely reaches the public eye.


Edited by Zarathustra (05/30/09 10:47 PM)
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#1208938 - 05/30/09 11:18 PM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Zarathustra]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
A correlation between a set of practice habits and a high level of performance doesn't prove, or even imply, causation.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1208939 - 05/30/09 11:19 PM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Zarathustra]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4669
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Very interesting. I'd very much appreciate your continuing to post on this subject. However, as a scientist myself, I must say that I am uneasy accepting information from a source that I cannot verify and information that gives no reference to sample size, how the information was gathered and by whom, etc.

And Steven has made a good point.

Interesting topic.

Thanks.
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Deborah

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#1208944 - 05/30/09 11:29 PM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: sotto voce]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1644
Loc: northern California
Originally Posted By: sotto voce
A correlation between a set of practice habits and a high level of performance doesn't prove, or even imply, causation.

Steven


This statement by Steven has to be absolutely true. A pianist with good practice habits which cause him to completely master a piece cannot possibly guarantee a high level of performance.

Love this thread though, fascinating stuff here.
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#1208945 - 05/30/09 11:29 PM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Zarathustra]
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 2368
Loc: Denver, CO
Zarathustra,

Thank you for starting this thread. Please continue with this type of information.

As a request, I'm not sure if this is within your area of expertise or not, but if you could review the research that has led to the claim that experts in general seem to have a minimum of 10,000 hours of experience in their fields. The books that I have read refer to Anders Ericsson's works for this result.

Thanks
Rich
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#1208954 - 05/30/09 11:50 PM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Zarathustra]
Claude56 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 469
Originally Posted By: Zarathustra
In my case, however, I've dedicated the majority of my life to science.


I wouldn't trust all science. Science can only go so far, but the rest is to believe in God. When people say "Science has proven", it doesn't necessarily mean its proven. After all, many of the experiments that have been used for the last few centuries might be in fact: wrong. God created a world where nobody could figure out how the universe worked. Only God knows how the Universe works.

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#1208961 - 05/30/09 11:59 PM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Claude56]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Originally Posted By: noSkillz
I wouldn't trust all science. Science can only go so far, but the rest is to believe in God. When people say "Science has proven", it doesn't necessarily mean its proven. After all, many of the experiments that have been used for the last few centuries might be in fact: wrong. God created a world where nobody could figure out how the universe worked. Only God knows how the Universe works.

Or, because nobody could figure out how the universe worked, man created a god. This is a slippery slope, and not a conversation you want to have here.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1208962 - 05/31/09 12:02 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Claude56]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4669
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted By: noSkillz
I wouldn't trust all science. Science can only go so far, but the rest is to believe in God. When people say "Science has proven", it doesn't necessarily mean its proven. After all, many of the experiments that have been used for the last few centuries might be in fact: wrong. God created a world where nobody could figure out how the universe worked. Only God knows how the Universe works.

Oh please let's not go there. Science is not about "trust". It is not about belief or convictions. Good science never "proves" anything. It merely states "this is the weight of the repeatable evidence" and "I am open to new ideas if you show me repeatable evidence to the contrary."

Let's not go on a tangent that will ruin an excellent thread. The topic is about scientific studies and their results.
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Deborah

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#1208968 - 05/31/09 12:06 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: sotto voce]
Claude56 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 469
Originally Posted By: sotto voce
Originally Posted By: noSkillz
I wouldn't trust all science. Science can only go so far, but the rest is to believe in God. When people say "Science has proven", it doesn't necessarily mean its proven. After all, many of the experiments that have been used for the last few centuries might be in fact: wrong. God created a world where nobody could figure out how the universe worked. Only God knows how the Universe works.

Or, because nobody could figure out how the universe worked, man created a god. This is a slippery slope, and not a conversation you want to have here.

Steven


Yes, the opposite might be true. But I don't want to be an atheist. smile

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#1208988 - 05/31/09 12:46 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Claude56]
Claude56 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 469
I heard Mozart and Liszt practiced 10 hours a day to reach their goal.

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#1208995 - 05/31/09 12:59 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Claude56]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Please keep this thread up Zarathustra. What have you got on Libet et al? Mirror neurons? I'm reading how the body shapes the Mind.
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#1209012 - 05/31/09 02:18 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: keyboardklutz]
Zarathustra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 20
Quote:

A correlation between a set of practice habits and a high level of performance doesn't prove, or even imply, causation.

Steven

Correlation is, ultimately, the only method of attempting to demonstrate causation. If I were to push a ball, it would be expected to roll, as my action is the causal agent to the ball's motion. However, the only rationalization we have for labeling my hand as the causal agent is the correlation between my actions and the creation of motion (the ball, in this case) as demonstrated in all past occurrences where my actions caused motion; no intrinsic causal relation exists. Thus, correlation is our only tool; it's just a matter of how strong the correlation is.

I wish there was a training-intervention study on these issues, but, this is precisely the problem with research into the fine arts. There is not one piece of research (I have searched thoroughly) that addresses acquisition of piano using modern paradigms of skill acquisition, so the moderate correlation I presented is the best I have; and, I think, considerably better than having no information at all.

Usually, a correlation observation is what prompts further consolidation of an issue so I hope we can look forward to some more interesting research in the future. smile

Also, just as a note, the correlations are similar to what is obtained in other research, I just thought this was the most comprehensive one.

Quote:

Very interesting. I'd very much appreciate your continuing to post on this subject. However, as a scientist myself, I must say that I am uneasy accepting information from a source that I cannot verify and information that gives no reference to sample size, how the information was gathered and by whom, etc.

Aha- I left that information out under the assumption that the majority of individuals would be more interested in the general point rather than the scientific details. I'm glad to have another science enthusiast here! I have in my notes (from a research project I did a while back) there were 17 participants. From memory, it was 2 weeks(don't quote me on this), practice was completely unregulated. I guess I should have chosen an article that I actually have a copy of, I suppose; next time I shall do so. There are a host of other studies on general practice habits (honestly though, most of them pretty much common sense), I actually have a thorough review of them lying around if you would like me to dig it up for you.

Quote:

As a request, I'm not sure if this is within your area of expertise or not, but if you could review the research that has led to the claim that experts in general seem to have a minimum of 10,000 hours of experience in their fields. The books that I have read refer to Anders Ericsson's works for this result.

I've read about it, definitely! Did you know that, the average number of hours it takes youth to reach Grade 8 ABRSM is (postulated to be) 3300 hours of 'deliberate practice'? Surprisingly, there wasn't much individual variation between the group of “highly talented” pianists and the group of average pianists. This implies that implies “innate talent” might not be all it's hyped to be, so get practicing! I might have some more to say about this later. smile

Quote:

Please keep this thread up Zarathustra. What have you got on Libet et al? Mirror neurons? I'm reading how the body shapes the Mind.

Libet! I always bring him up when I'm having a debate about free will. I saw Kreisler mention mirror neurons in another thread, so it seems like a hit; I might put up some info about them. I can't think of anything specifically related to piano though; if nothing comes up after some searching either, I might just present some general principles. As for the book, it actually looks pretty interesting. I need to get my head of the journals on day and read some real books. wink
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#1209014 - 05/31/09 02:23 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Zarathustra]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2598
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Zarathustra: Great stuff! Now would you kindly give us the complete references for Duke et al (2004) and Simmons (2007) so we can look them up in the library? Thanks!
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1209018 - 05/31/09 02:40 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: jazzyprof]
Zarathustra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 20
RA Duke, CM Davis, AL Simmons - 2004 - Texas Music Educators Conference, San Antonio, Texas
--Unfortunately, I don't know how easy it will be to find.
At least people are interested (or skeptical) enough to want more; I chose this article without the expectation that people would want to read the full paper.

Simmons (2007) can be found here; a brief summary of Duke et al (2004) including the quote I provided can be found on page 20.
https://www.lib.utexas.edu/etd/d/2007/simmonsa70222/simmonsa70222.pdf


Edited by Zarathustra (05/31/09 02:43 AM)
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#1209020 - 05/31/09 02:49 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Claude56]
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 1651
Loc: Houston, TX
As others have said, this is probably not something you want to bring up since we have a wide range of beliefs here.

I would assert, however, that there is no contradiction as you implied. The two are, in fact, in harmony: One must presuppose a priori the axiomatic foundations that enable human inquiry - not themselves subject to the methods of scientific positivism - before any such inquiry.

Where scientific positivism falls short is in its rather naive (and often rather smug) application of its methods to areas better addressed under the rubric of philosophy. Can science alone ("measurable, observable, repeatable") explain the good, the true, the beautiful?

Interesting thread, BTW.

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#1209026 - 05/31/09 03:33 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: gerg]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: gerg
One must presuppose a priori the axiomatic foundations that enable human inquiry - not themselves subject to the methods of scientific positivism - before any such inquiry
Only as a working hypothesis though, let's not get carried away!
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1209029 - 05/31/09 03:43 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: keyboardklutz]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Re: Libet et al, I think his flaw was to not factor in the time to process visual stimuli i.e. the big clock. If subjects had timed themselves with aural cues I can't help thinking the 350ms would have disappeared. I learnt from experience that aural cues are processed far quicker, it's an interesting observation which has relevance for music cognition.

As for mirror neurons, I think it validates the old 'He cannot move others who is not moved himself' theory.
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1209078 - 05/31/09 07:08 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Zarathustra]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7429
Originally Posted By: Zarathustra

Quote:

As a request, I'm not sure if this is within your area of expertise or not, but if you could review the research that has led to the claim that experts in general seem to have a minimum of 10,000 hours of experience in their fields. The books that I have read refer to Anders Ericsson's works for this result.

I've read about it, definitely! Did you know that, the average number of hours it takes youth to reach Grade 8 ABRSM is (postulated to be) 3300 hours of 'deliberate practice'? Surprisingly, there wasn't much individual variation between the group of “highly talented” pianists and the group of average pianists. This implies that implies “innate talent” might not be all it's hyped to be, so get practicing! I might have some more to say about this later. smile



But, on the other hand, it may just as well imply that Grade 8 ABRSM might not be all it is hyped to be.

This thread is interesting, and I do like learning about the research that is going on, so I hope it goes for a while.

Nevertheless, I still find that what gets measured and studied is what is convenient to get measured and studied. Said differently, I find that the very idea of talent is getting redefined in this area so that it refers to skills, and not to artistry. Art is apparently extremely inconvenient to measure, relative to skill. But in music, in the end, what I actually care about is the art, not the skill, even if having huge skill is pretty much a prerequisite (although not always).

Not that I can't get off on skill for its own sake, but that's a completely different issue.

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#1209084 - 05/31/09 07:27 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: wr]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I'm happy to see Bob Duke's work get some attention here on the forums. He's one of the top researchers in music ed today and his work is widely read and and subjected to rigorous scrutiny by the editorial boards for the journals in which he publishes.

Trust me, Duke knows his statistics, and his studies always include the relevant data on sample size, correlation patterns, and experimental design.

He is often published in JRME, a journal many here would do well to read, and you can learn more about him here:

http://www.music.utexas.edu/directory/details.aspx?id=36
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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1209086 - 05/31/09 07:33 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Kreisler]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Oh, and the "A. Simmons" is Amy Simmons at UTSA:

http://imr.utsa.edu/research.htm

And the CM Davis recently got married and is now:

http://www.depts.ttu.edu/music/SOM/CarlaCash.asp
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1209089 - 05/31/09 07:41 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: wr]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
By the way, anybody interested in music research should read Clifford Madsen's "Experimental Research in Music."

It's pretty much the standard textbook on experimental design in music education studies and will answer a lot of questions about what music education research can and cannot tell us. (And how and why...)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1209101 - 05/31/09 08:04 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Kreisler]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4395
Loc: San Jose, CA
"4. Errors are preempted by stopping in anticipation of mistakes
5. Errors are addressed immediately when they appear
6. The precise location and source of each error is accurately identified, rehearsed,
and corrected
7. Tempo of individual performance trials is systematically varied; logically
understandable changes in tempo occur between trials (slow down enough; do not
speed up too much)
8. Target passages are repeated until the error is corrected and the passage is
stabilized, as evidenced by the error’s absence in subsequent trials"


Whether the correlation implies causation or not, this is exactly the way my piano teacher insisted I practice while learning new pieces. She would, in fact, just about have a fit if I would fish for notes or fail to back up at least a half-measure when I made an error. She did not want the fingers to learn the wrong thing, kinesthetically, even at the start; she insisted one never gets better if this is allowed. And it's not the way I like to practice--- I like to try to get through the piece, then go back and improve... so she was always on me about it.

The research findings would seem to support her view of the matter.

I would be glad if Zarathustra would continue sharing the studies. Their veracity is for further experiment to verify... or modify.


Edited by Jeff Clef (05/31/09 08:05 AM)
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#1209106 - 05/31/09 08:24 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Zarathustra]
Studio Joe Offline
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Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
Originally Posted By: Zarathustra

Correlation is, ultimately, the only method of attempting to demonstrate causation. If I were to push a ball, it would be expected to roll, as my action is the causal agent to the ball's motion. However, the only rationalization we have for labeling my hand as the causal agent is the correlation between my actions and the creation of motion (the ball, in this case) as demonstrated in all past occurrences where my actions caused motion; no intrinsic causal relation exists. Thus, correlation is our only tool; it's just a matter of how strong the correlation is.


A child once observed that when the wind blows the tree branches move. Therefore: The trees wave their branches and cause the wind.
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#1209111 - 05/31/09 08:40 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Zarathustra]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Originally Posted By: Zarathustra
Correlation is, ultimately, the only method of attempting to demonstrate causation. If I were to push a ball, it would be expected to roll, as my action is the causal agent to the ball's motion. However, the only rationalization we have for labeling my hand as the causal agent is the correlation between my actions and the creation of motion (the ball, in this case) as demonstrated in all past occurrences where my actions caused motion; no intrinsic causal relation exists. Thus, correlation is our only tool; it's just a matter of how strong the correlation is.

My point is that in correlating a set of habits with success, you can't say whether those habits led to success, or success led to those habits, or that there aren't other forces involved.

Adoption of strategies correlated with success may be beneficial as a practical matter, but I wonder if reading about (and emulating) the habits of highly successful people has made many people equally successful as those for whom it happens naturally.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1209112 - 05/31/09 08:41 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: sotto voce]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
And the researchers are very aware of that fact.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1209113 - 05/31/09 08:43 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Studio Joe]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: jw7480
A child once observed that when the wind blows the tree branches move. Therefore: The trees wave their branches and cause the wind.
They do, it's just the maths is simpler the other way round!
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1209117 - 05/31/09 09:09 AM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Kreisler]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
And the researchers are very aware of that fact.

I would expect them to be, but I don't believe the same is true of those who are not researchers (and who instead cherry-pick from what's apparently scientifically validated and exploit it for their own purposes).

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1209183 - 05/31/09 12:18 PM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: sotto voce]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Those who are not researchers make a great many incorrect inferences as to what researchers are often trying to say.

I think this happens in all fields, and I think many times the news media is to blame.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1209193 - 05/31/09 12:44 PM Re: The Research Thread -- Fight Ignorance Today! [Re: Jeff Clef]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4669
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
[i]"4. Errors are preempted by stopping in anticipation of mistakes
5. Errors are addressed immediately when they appear
6. The precise location and source of each error is accurately identified, rehearsed,
and corrected...

Whether the correlation implies causation or not, this is exactly the way my piano teacher insisted I practice while learning new pieces. She would, in fact, just about have a fit if I would fish for notes or fail to back up at least a half-measure when I made an error. She did not want the fingers to learn the wrong thing, kinesthetically, even at the start; she insisted one never gets better if this is allowed.


Jeff, this is interesting to me because my former teacher insisted that it was important to learn to keep playing through my mistakes during a performance or when I was doing a run through at the beginning of a lesson. I usually play through a piece once (with mistakes) at the beginning of a practice session to identify the places I need to go back to and work on. I wonder if it makes a difference if I complete the piece and go back, or stop my playing and make the correction as the mistake happens?
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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