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#1209270 - 05/31/09 03:44 PM Combined crochet & quaver..help???
crusadar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Middle England
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I stumbled on this seemingly simple piece of music but can't understand why the crotchet and dotted quavers in bars 1,2,5 & 6 of the treble staff are combined, I'm inclined to play the dotted quaver and hold it for 3 beats, but I could play the crotchet for one beat and the upper quaver for two beats, there must be reason why the crotchets are there, very confusing. Any help gratefully received, thanks.



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#1209287 - 05/31/09 04:02 PM Re: Combined crochet & quaver..help??? [Re: crusadar]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
It's to make plain that there are two distinct "voices" in those measures: in one voice (stems upward), there's a crotchet slurred to a minim; in the other voice (stem downward), a dotted minim lasts for the duration of the measure.

Imagine that the two voices were literally two human voices singing together or two different musical instruments with each singing or playing a separate line of music.

Because the two voices share the same note on the first beat of the measure, it can only be played once on the piano (i.e., played as a crotchet slurred to the minim but hold the crotchet down for the value of a dotted minim).

I hope this helps. This type of notation is fairly common, and I'm pretty sure you'll be seeing more of it. smile

Steven


Edited by sotto voce (05/31/09 06:00 PM)
Edit Reason: Dang, got all my UK terminology wrong! Thanks to Chris H. for the clarification.
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1209339 - 05/31/09 05:56 PM Re: Combined crochet & quaver..help??? [Re: sotto voce]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: UK.
For those who are not used to our (UK) odd time names:

Whole note = Semibreve

Half note = Minim

Qaurter note = Crotchet

Eigth note = Quaver

Sixteenth note = Semiquaver

32nd note = Demisemiquaver

64th note = You don't want to know!
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#1209574 - 06/01/09 02:48 AM Re: Combined crochet & quaver..help??? [Re: Chris H.]
crusadar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Middle England
-

Thanks sotto voce, so, take the first bar, I play F# on the first beat and hold it for three beats then play the D on the second beat and hold it for two beats which is what I'm inclined to do but I'm still a little fuzzy about why the crotchet (1/4 note) is there if it doesn't give an instruction, or is it drawing attention to the notes in the first bar of the bass staff also?

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Edited by crusadar (06/01/09 02:49 AM)

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#1209625 - 06/01/09 06:51 AM Re: Combined crochet & quaver..help??? [Re: crusadar]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
You're exactly right about how the measures should be played, but it's beyond my own knowledge to try to explain more about the concepts behind the notation than I have.

Wikipedia has articles about polyphony and counterpoint that might be useful.

I think the most important thing to know, though, is that you can expect to encounter it again (and again) in other music and to recognize it when you do.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1209806 - 06/01/09 02:15 PM Re: Combined crochet & quaver..help??? [Re: sotto voce]
packa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/05
Posts: 1248
Loc: Dallas, TX
Here's a more detailed way to think about this notation. In the treble clef, ignore the dotted half notes for a moment and you just have the melody. Play it through a couple of times to get the feel of connecting the melody notes to make it sound like a flowing lyrical line.

Then, still ignoring the dotted half notes in the treble clef, play the LH figure against the RH main melody. Balance them carefully so that they play off each other. Get this sound of two alternating lines fixed in your mind.

Then, go back and hold the notes in the RH as indicated by the dotted half notes. This additional sound (from holding onto the notes) is a harmony that should not disturb the lyrical voicing you have practiced with the melody alone. It should be pretty easy in this case.

Steven is correct that you will often see this kind of notation and it is frequently important to consider the voicing of the shared note so that it serves both indicated functions (in this case, a note in a melody line and a harmonizing note at the same time).

As a notational matter, the quarter note is important to tell you when to play the upper note of the melody. If the quarter note were simply left out, then you would still need to add a rest to indicate the timing for the upper note. But a rest would destroy the representation of the melody line itself.
_________________________
Paul Buchanan
Estonia L168 #1718

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#1209861 - 06/01/09 04:16 PM Re: Combined crochet & quaver..help??? [Re: packa]
crusadar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Middle England
-

Thanks Guys, I think I'm getting there.

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#1210186 - 06/02/09 07:09 AM Re: Combined crochet & quaver..help??? [Re: Chris H.]
ancientsolar Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 17
Hmm did you miss breve? If semie breve is a whole note, what is breve? I only seen it written once or twice in some hymns.
Originally Posted By: Chris H.
For those who are not used to our (UK) odd time names:

Whole note = Semibreve

Half note = Minim

Qaurter note = Crotchet

Eigth note = Quaver

Sixteenth note = Semiquaver

32nd note = Demisemiquaver

64th note = You don't want to know!
_________________________
Learning ABRSM & Michael Aaron

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#1210213 - 06/02/09 09:29 AM Re: Combined crochet & quaver..help??? [Re: ancientsolar]
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Originally Posted By: ancientsolar
Hmm did you miss breve? If semie breve is a whole note, what is breve? I only seen it written once or twice in some hymns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_whole_note

They exist, but are considerably rarer than hemidemisemiquavers ("You don't want to know!"). smile

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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