Hi fellow piano students….
I’ve been trying to learn the piano for a while now and find that my progress and motivation tend to ebb and flow all the time, !I have a lessons every couple of weeks to try to give me some direction and motivation but to date seem unlucky with my choice of piano teacher and just seem to find those who want to get paid for supervising my practice rather than teaching me anything….In fact I have yet to find a teacher who has prepared anything before I arrive…at the age of 45 I get the impression they don’t seem take your needs as a student seriously ‘ I think ,hope I’ve just been unlucky)….maybe I’m just too demanding !!

Anyway I’m at yet another crossroads where I am feed up with my “practice teacher” and my motivation is flagging, So I have a proposition for you ………

I’m looking to find 1 or two people at the same point of learning with similar aims and taste in music to form a mutual support group…………I thought we could all study the same material and bounce ideas and problems of one another, thus keeping the motivation and excitement going….. I believe this long learning curve needs to be enjoyable.

So here is my profile, I’d love to hear from anyone who feels the same need……Any takers??

My profile
Age: 45
Married with young children
Piano Level: Beginner (about a year in)
Study material: I use a mixture of John Thompson adult piano book II, some easy piano books and Alfred’s book 1 page 70 ish (I’m happy to change !)

Musical taste: I like to listen to pop (80’s, motown, soul), rock and some classical and jazz ……so almost anything goes…..
Musical dislikes: Rap, teen pop sensations!

Available practice time: 1hour each day
Aims: tough question ……long term, to play some well known pop and jazz pieces for friends at special occasions and gatherings, some classical pieces for me because it’s the most beautiful piano music. To be able to play along with someone else!!

Difficulties: maintaining motivation ……lack of talent

Other hobbies: I like to run bike and anything orienteering. I love to cook

So how about it ….. Rather than hours of practicing alone and banging our heads against the wall, shall we share those frustrations with like minded people Maybe one of the teachers that who read this forum could join us and offer advice along the way…..;

So anyone want to give it try……?

Peter

It seems to me the Alfred's Basic and All in One Book #1 Study Group thread here in the ABF is what you're looking for. You can scroll down a little ways and see it.

It's an on-going thread, and you can join at any time, and at any point in the book. People talk about particular pieces in the book, how to practice them, what the problems are. Many people even post recordings so that others can hear what pieces sound like. And when they've completed that book, there's threads for the next two books that are equally active.

And there are indeed a couple of teachers who read them and sometimes offer advice.

Sort of made to order for you

Cathy

hi Cathy
I did consider posting there, however I thought of a closer and probably smaller group that are following the same route together. With more interaction, and a certain committment to each others progression. ....Piano buddies
I do read the alfreds thread and it is motivational just not personal enough and is restricted to Alfreds book..

Peter

You are at Nîmes? Really! We're almost neighbors!

Did you know that the word "denim" comes from "de Nîmes" meaning from Nîmes!



Now there's a great basis for a mutual support group!

Yep ........in a village about 15km north of Nîmes......
we were not far from you last month at Vernet-les-bains....

I'm just looking for someone to share the learning curve with...exchange of ideas etc........

Peter

I think the Alfred's Basic and All in One Book #1 Study Group thread is good for you, too, but if you want to create a new study group, I might want to join in...:D I think we're about the same level (I'm at page 94 in Alfred). I have the the John Thompson's, but it's the standard Grade 1 book (not the adult version). Maybe we could find a piece at our level and play that?

By the way, I'm curious as to why you are unsatisfied with the 'supervised practice' with your teacher. We may have different ideas, but I always thought piano lessons were 'supervised practice' in the sense that come lesson time, you play the piece assigned to you and the teacher points out areas for improvement. I'm more interested in my teacher's feedback on my performance than what she 'teaches' me per se. I just can't grasp how your teacher can't 'teach you anything.'

Hi .....
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not in any way critical of the Alfred's Basic and All in One Book #1 Study Group, I would just like to make contact with a few people at the same point in the learning prossess and hopefully we would be interested in each others progression and keep regular contact. I don't know anyone locally who shares my interest so i was looking here...

I hope i haven't come accross too critical of my teachers, and maybe i am too demanding,, I agree that the feed back from practiced pieces was useful for improving that particular piece. The gripe is that not one teacher has proposed any theory, not even in relation to the pieces i'm learning. I have never seen any preperation for our classes and I have had to propose the pieces we study ...so i got to the point of asking myself why am i paying for this? I had expected to be guided and motivated, was that too demanding?
Sorry if it sounds a ,bit off it's just I found this very frustrating........
So I think i will try to go it alone......hence the call for a few like minded people to get together and push each other along ..

Peter

Hi Peter,

I think if your piano teacher cannot fully cater to your needs, you should consider changing to another whom you're more comfortable with & can customise a music course according to your needs.

I'm currently learning ABRSM grade 3 exam pieces. My first piano teacher was a late 20s young lady who worked partime for the extra cash. She didn't really have any plans mapped out for me xcept getting me an Adult's music book to begin with but it was still fine for me then as I had just started (2007) and could not decide if I wanted to take exams or just learning for leisure. By the time I was more sure in 2008 that I wanted to go for exam, she dropped me as she did not have enough time. She didn't really have much passion in her eyes when she taught and had high expectation that I had to sight-read a new music piece without any errors, sometimes comparing me to her 7-8 year old pupils (but I'm an adult!). It seemed like a blessing in disguise that she dropped me...

Anyway, I moved on to my second & current piano teacher, a young male undergraduate who is about 7-8 years younger than me. It was the right choice. I'm very comfortable with his style of teaching and he often gives me lots of little practical tips. He has the passion for sharing music and in fact, earning the little fees isn't his priority as he comes from quite a good background. He's teaching just to make sure he maintains his proficiency in piano-playing since he completed his ABRSM Grade 8 in early teens. Actually, most people want older teachers who possess more years of experience in teaching and who probably have incredibly high music credentials like a music degree or masters in Piano Performance but for me, I think I look more for passion and creativity in a teacher. I just notice that the younger the teacher, the more willing he/she is to try to customise to the pupil's needs, probably because the lack or little experience they have makes them feel less secure so they're more willing to put in more effort since they treat it like a learning phase.

Within a short 6 months with him, I could actually score a distinction for grade 1 exam, had it not been for my nervousness causing some slight mistakes.

Anyway, I had a partime 3rd teacher (now gone to US to study) who taught me to play for leisure as my current teacher does not have the extra time for an extra lesson within the week. She was just 19 year old but very nice. It was also thanks to her that my sight-reading's getting better. All in all, my 2nd and 3rd piano teachers turn out so much better than my 1st. I think you may want to communicate your expectation with your current teacher and see what he/she can come up with for you to make your learning more structured. If it fails, then think about changing to another teacher and search carefully.

This is indeed a small world, Petex. I was just in your town last month. We were staying in Arles and drove to Nimes on our way to Pond Du Gard, and then on to Avignon.

I would follow the thread and would contribute as I could. I certainly need the incouragement. Every group I have been a part of has flown past me with such speed I get dizzy.

I would participate until you fly by me as well.....

Hi Peter,

Just some ideas....

I'm a beginner too (just finished Alfed's Book 1 Adult All in One), and to make a long story short, I have been all over the place with methods. I have worked with the Sudnow Method (sudnow.com), and in my experience in their forum, I have had the great opportunity to have an internet "Piano Buddy" to help with ideas, and encouragement. I'm not even specifically doing the Sudnow Method now, but my Piano Buddy and I continue to keep in touch.

My piano playing frustrations have been helped this year by:
1) Keeping a blog. Its here: http://thepianojourneyofme.blogspot.com/
2) My piano Buddy
3) The MOYD thread in Piano World where we pledge to practice at least a little each day except for illness.
4) The Alfreds thread(s) here on Piano World

You list maintaining motivation and lack of talent! Now those are issues that I identify with! I hope those two issues don't frustrate you unduly, though. But I've found that the Numbers 1,2, 3, and 4 above have helped me with the motivation issues:

1) In my blog. I sometimes have expressed frustration, and sometimes I have expressed good feelings about learning the piano. But in the blog, I notate what I did at the piano daily, and it helps with motivation. That's the point: I am determined to make an entry daily, and it helps with motivation.

2) And my piano Buddy helps with motivation, also, with encouragement and humor.

3) The MOYD thread also helps with accountability

4) With the Alfed's thread(s), I know I ain't alone!

I'm 47, with young kids and less practice time available than you....but I know that motivation and so-called lack of talent issues that you are dealing with! I read in a book ("The Artist's Way) that's it is not our job to worry about QUALITY of our work, its our job to worry about the QUANTITY of work. (In other words, don't worry about how you sound when practicing, JUST WORRY ABOUT ACTUALLY PUTTING YOUR TIME IN TO PRACTICE!)I know....easier said than done ! ! !

Don't go away from Piano World! Keep talking, keep exploring different methods, and you just might come acroos a piano buddy and/or group that helps you with your frustrations!

Maybe if you are more specific in terms of what method you'd like to use, you may be more apt to get takers who might be interested in the same method...I was lucky enough to find my buddy because perhaps we both were using a specific method (The Sudnow Method), and our friendship continues even though we are not using the same method now.

If you are looking for someone to help with encouragement, and you are having no takers to your original request, I suggest that you keep us posted here on the forum about your frustrations, and the group here is great with support.

Just don't give up. My four methods outlined above have worked for me. I suggest that you look around and find some personalized methods that might help you, also, with the frustrations we all feel.

Hope this helps...

Good Luck, and keep us posted!

Angelojf

Sancte bovinus, this is starting to sound like a UMUTA meeting!

I don't get it.

landorrano likes what I call "hit and run" comments

Perhaps meant to be pithy?

"Sancte bovinus" = holy cow

UMUTA = ?

Who knows? The Shadow?

Cathy

UMUTA: Un-motivated and Un-talented Anonymous

Seriously though, Peter, are your kids studying music?

Ahhhh....now I get it!

HI Twinkie......
Interesting comments...I suppose i am in this delema following two false starts with two teachers. I build my hopes up then get demotivated (not just by my lack of natural talent!) buy their capacity to take the cash without really giving much in return...I am ready to work hard to achive my goals but i'm now sceptical of the value of this type of teacher, IF I could find a good one that was interested in my progression then he she would definately be worth paying!!
Bravo for your achivements...i would be so happy to emulate them!

Keep it up
Peter

Gmm1..
I presume you were here on holiday...Did you enjoy the region?
I was at the Pont du Gard a few weeks ago as part of a sporting challenge, the event included canoeing under the famous bridge ....quite stunning!!

what are you studying at the momment?

Peter

Hi landorrano
"Seriously though, Peter, are your kids studying music? "

No not at the moment, they are just comming to an age to start, part of my motivation is to learn so iI can inspire them to play music too...........

Peter

Hi Peter,

Hope you'll be able to find a good teacher soon. Meanwhile, just ask more questions or take more initiative in planning the type of materials you'd like to use for your lessons to 'stimulate' your teacher. Probably, it'll inspire her a little and get her more proactive in guiding you and in providing more valuable and constructive feedback.

Yes, it was a long overdue trip. Our main goal was to visit the village I lived in as a child (Cousy-lès-Eppes) in the north, but we visited the south as well. We loved the region. We did not plan enough time there, so we will return in a few years (saving for it now).

Pont du Gard is stunning from the top as well. One of the highlights of the trip. We absolutely fell in love with Arles and the people there. It was the friendliest place we visited.

I am currently using Alfreds and The Piano Handbook. My studies tend to be classical, and my goof-off time tends to be music from the 70s and 80s. I am going it alone (well, almost alone, no teacher but I am constantly looking for help here).

First of all “lack talent”??? I will not accept that for one minute!! In the words of the Dalai Lama: “We all have the same potential.”

Even though I like my teacher my motivation still comes and goes. I think its hard b/c sometimes the process can seem slow and we need something to keep the momentum going. Having a smaller group to check in with for motivation and practice tips will be helpful.

I’m not working with any particular book just working on a piece (Bach’s menuet in G minor). I have been working on this piece for a while b/c even though I can play it my teacher is focused on every detail (not in a mean or strict way). I know she’s right but sometimes I feel like I want to be done with it and move on already-LOL. She also gives me a lot of great advice. Something teachers in the past did not do. They would just load me down with “work”.

At the moment I can’t practice b/c I hurt my hand so I have to wait until it gets better.
But when it is better I know I need to start practicing more.

BTW…, don’t give up on finding the right teacher. I am on my fourth and she truly is a great teacher 


So, how would this be set up? As a separate thread or some kind of shared calendar???
Also, I only have access to a computer Monday-Friday. Eventually I might get a home computer though.

Kymber.. I am working on Bach's minuet in G minor also. My teacher has had me working on it for months. We are working on dynamics and expression. He is very strick when it comes to Bach. I am actually learning a lot

Hey Peter, take it easy on yourself, it'll be a long time before your playing can inspire your kids, maybe never. Be careful, if you misjudge the situation you may find that you get the opposite result and become their chief limitation. You may find yourself the subject of a Piano World teachers' forum thread about "a difficult parent in the south of France"! Doucement !

As for a study group, count me out, I am not at all enthousiast of internet for that kind of usage.

I'll be in Narbonne the 12th of July, to leave my little girl off at music camp. We could maybe use a piano there for a little UMUTA meeting, if you feel like dropping by.

By the way, have you thought of yourself going to a summer music camp, a "stage"? I know of one not so far away from you, in the Lozère. It is principally for kids but I know that adults participate as well, they just have to lodge themselves somewhere in the vicinity. They promise at least a 1/2 hours lesson a day, if I remember correctly, and you have a piano at your disposition pretty much all day. It is a pretty high level, but the teacher might be willing to work with a HMVTAB like you !

wj3
Thanks for sharing I feel better now.
Quality over quantity...right?
I think my playing has definitely improved a lot. I think it's good our teachers are concerned about the details b/c we can transfer what we learn to other songs in the future.

landorrano.......thanks for the advice...
For my children i am only looking to inspire them by being able to play myself, after that i would wait for them to ask questions and go from there...i would never push them to play.

So Kymber a good question, so for those who are interested, how would it work... I thought that we would need to be agreed on a practice piece or two then either through the forum or a blog we can exchange ideas and discus the piece (theory) untill we are either sickof it or ready to record a performance (the thought of this already sends shivers down my spine, but this way we can give better feedback to each other)then we chose another piece or two and move forward.
How about two pieces one classical, one modern and a cource book...
I think we need to leave ourselves room for playing our own music so we have some variation...
What version of Bach's minuet in G minor are you playing?

Peter

Well that post seems to have silenced you all!!

Hi, actually I'm interested in joining the study group. Seems like a great idea. Just a bit hesitant 'cause I don't know how it'll work out. I agree we could pick out a piece or two to practice, then take off from there. But there must be discrepancies in our abilities. I'm definitely in the early beginner level concentrating on working with Alfred Adult Course Book 1. Someone may pick out a nice piece, but it could be too hard for some but too easy for others. This will clearly result to a loss of interest from all. Sorry, I'm nitpicky about details like this

Some people say it's better to tackle pieces more advanced than your current level but after trying it a bit myself, I decided to go the slow and steady way. I get to learn more technique with less headaches, and learn more pieces in the same amount of time. (This is just my long-winded way of saying that I'm not ready to tackle pieces above my level in the method book )

Lurking here. :-) I might be interested in a study group if the piece/pieces you pick are easy enough. I've been playing for more than a year, but am still on Alfred AIO Book 1, self taught and very slow.

Hi Petex,

I think I understand what you're looking for... you want something a little more focused than the current Alfred's threads. We've had very successful "Study Groups" in the past on the forum that were geared toward mastery of certain pieces, e.g., we had one for Croatian Rhapsody and one for Jim Brickman's "Edgewater." (O.T. reminiscence: I never did get that into recording shape... I should probably break it out and take another crack at it.) And then there was the time we had a sight-reading study group, where several of us purchased the same book and we practiced sight-reading a piece out of it every week and reported back on our experience.

So I think such a support group could work, but I'd advise making it very specific in purpose. The "general" support group already exists and is called AB forum.

Probably the best way to start it is just to start a new thread entitled "[name of piece] Study Group" and see who hops on.

LOL.

I like Monika's idea. It might be a good place to start for now and then we can decide if we want to add another song or follow along with the book (or both)....

I was feeling a little overwhelmed by following along with a book and doing two songs in addition to my lessons and the song my teacher has me do. But, I do want to push myself a little more and I think this would be a good way to do it. I definitely have my "down" days and the support and encouragement form people working on the same things would be wonderful.

BTW... I probably won't be able to start until next week (Monday) b/c I hurt my hand

This is a good idea, but maybe we should make several groups according to the current level of each student. For some, a specific piece may well be too hard at this very moment, whilst for others the same piece could be quite easy. And then again, who says we all want to study the same piece?

Well, another approach might be that we ask each other our dumb questions?? Like, "Does anything know what that squiggly thing with a couple of dots mean, in a piece that has that strange word 'coda' in it?" And if nobody knows, we post the question on the piano teachers forum?

Otherwise, I'd feel comfortable just telling you what I'm struggling with, or what I would like to do but don't know how to get from "here to there," etc. If someone wants to post a piece and invite others to play, I could try that and report back whether I could do that--and others could help us all analyze where we are musically. Or maybe we just need to ask something here before we take it to our teachers (assuming we have them). Do we need to be anything in particular, other than a support group?

We could just start a thread for each piece and those who are interested can participate...it would work but i'd like to see amore personal group forming so we can bounce ideas of each other and count on eachothers moral support.
If we keep the pieces in the public domain we can all be learning from the same sheet....
I think now has come the time to suggest some works to get the ball rolling ........how about one classical and one modern ?
i'll start hunting
Peter

Hi Peter, I'm 54 and just started about 4 years ago. I won't go through all of the details because I have mentioned them before in this forum. The point I am trying to make is that this forum for me has been a great way to learn quite a few things. I don't always post, but look around to see what new ways of playing/practicing and use some of those suggestions.

I keep my dreams because if I knew several years ago that I would be playing piano, I wouldn't believe it! I am proud at what I have accomplished and you hopefully will be/are as well.

To echo, Angelojf, don't give up and enjoy what you have accomplished in the amount of time you have done this!

Take care