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#1213714 - 06/08/09 12:07 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: LiszThalberg]
yhc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 148
Loc: NYC, NY
Well, I'd still buy Bozhanov's CD when it comes out.


Edited by yhc (06/08/09 12:08 AM)

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#1213716 - 06/08/09 12:14 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: LiszThalberg]
newport Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 492
Originally Posted By: Debussy20


at least now he has an answer....

Yes, no more tears! yippie
_________________________
Chopin Op.51
John

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#1213726 - 06/08/09 12:54 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: newport]
fredericch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Westport, CT
I call this year's results "The Young and the Restless".

It is a good thing that there are two of them to share the burden of first prize. Both will benefit from a slightly lighter load.

Fredericch

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#1213728 - 06/08/09 12:55 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: fredericch]
fredericch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Westport, CT
And my personal list was:

Vacatello
Bozhanov
Zhang
Tsujii
Son
Wu

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#1213741 - 06/08/09 01:40 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: yhc]
Guldesque Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 42
Loc: United States
If it comes out...It's no secret that competitions aren't what they used to be 50 years ago, when it made a difference. In today's world I honestly don't see the two winners competing at the world's stage. It maybe insensitive to point out, but there is already plenty of people filling in the "chinese pianist" niche. And the silver medalist? Didn't she get the silver at the previous competition? I was amazed how little buzz and relevance the competition carried overall, and honestly the biggest discussion about it was...well, HERE! Amazing how the mainstream world simply isn't tuned in, because honestly there aren't any interesting personalities, stories, or real artistry involed. It turned into a purely academic, boring, restricted, and utterly rigged activity that has no relevance whatsoever. Competition's era is over, these older than old judges are irrelevant, they don't (haven't been for a long time) produce real artists, those who are able to have an impact, to create strong feelings in people's minds and hearts. I don't have anything against any of the contestants, but I am sorry, all of the recent "big" competitions is the very definition of mediocrity. Don't expect Glen Gould to ever win, his posture wouldn't have been "WRONG". I doubt we will ever have a personality like him, or Horowitz, or Gillels, let alone Rachmaninoff and Liszt. SAD! Never have I ever been so turned off by this whole thing! I will step outside for a breath of fresh air...

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#1213751 - 06/08/09 02:17 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Guldesque]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Soon we will be talking about nobody is filling in the American pianist niche when the Chinese pianist "niche" is becoming the maintream.

The only problem I see in competitions like these (not just in piano, but in everything) is that the Americans are falling out of relevancy, in their own turf. And they still don't know why. Blame someone else! LOL!

Go outside and smoke all you want, if it makes you feel better!
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#1213754 - 06/08/09 02:26 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: pno]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
By the way, one doesn't need to be a psycho to make a great artist.
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#1213809 - 06/08/09 08:24 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Theowne]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19105
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Theowne
I assumed it wasn't too much of a leap to assume the Cliburn wanted people to come watch their booked performances.


Well, that goes without saying, but it's far different from saying that was one of the main criteria for choosing the winners. Similalry, your other statement about choosing the winners based on who would make the best headline was certainly not one of the "stated" criteria and highly cynical IMHO.

I think all the finalists are among the best young pianists in the world(most of them have aleady won other big prizes) and deserve far more respect than some PW members(especially the amateur pianists) are willing to give them.

If one looks at the musical accomplishments of the jury members compared to those who seem so ready to criticize them, I think that this is also highly out of place.


Edited by pianoloverus (06/08/09 08:37 AM)

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#1213836 - 06/08/09 09:56 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: pianoloverus]
Auntie Lynn Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 1096
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Do we move on to the Tchaikovsky International now, or can we take a breather...

Thanks!

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#1213848 - 06/08/09 10:21 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: newport]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19105
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: newport
有的时候自己半夜12点从学校练完琴回家,走在空无一人的小道上,走着走着就哭得泪流满面了:我那么要强是为了什么?

Sometimes at mid-night I walked home from school after practicing, walking alone on a small trail, I suddenly felt my face covered with tears: Why do I work so hard, what is it for?

4/14/2006 Haochen's last blog entry (before getting too busy to write)


How to you get his blog to read in English? I think I got to his his blog site at his "Major seducer of music" page , but the only blog I could find was in Chinese:
http://haochen0603haochen0603.spaces.live.com/blog/

Thanks!

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#1213853 - 06/08/09 10:30 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Auntie Lynn]
DameMyra Online   happy
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1906
Loc: South Jersey
The Tchaikovsky is way off. The next big competitions are the Minnesota E-Competition June 29 - July 10 and Leeds at the end of August.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher
Faculty, Rowan Prep Community School of Music
MTNA/NJMTA/SJMTA
Managing Director, Northern Lights Music Festival

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#1213895 - 06/08/09 11:43 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: pianoloverus]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5281
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: newport
有的时候自己半夜12点从学校练完琴回家,走在空无一人的小道上,走着走着就哭得泪流满面了:我那么要强是为了什么?

Sometimes at mid-night I walked home from school after practicing, walking alone on a small trail, I suddenly felt my face covered with tears: Why do I work so hard, what is it for?

4/14/2006 Haochen's last blog entry (before getting too busy to write)


How to you get his blog to read in English? I think I got to his his blog site at his "Major seducer of music" page , but the only blog I could find was in Chinese:
http://haochen0603haochen0603.spaces.live.com/blog/

Thanks!


I don't know...maybe google can help with the translation?

Man, that kid has issues. He's thinking way too much about life, especially at his age. Quite profound and profane at the same time. Read the poem he wrote to his mother.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1213900 - 06/08/09 11:47 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Axtremus]
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6150
Originally Posted By: Axtremus
How I will celebrate if ...

* Zhang wins - each Kentucky Fried Chicken, dark meat, Zhang's favorite, and pre-performance, food.
...
* Tsujii wins - eat sushi, but need to research what sort of blind fish can actually be made into sushi first.

* Son wins - eat Korean tofu pot, may be wear a green shirt for a day

In honor of the 2009 Van Cliburn medalists...



The Korean tofu pot will have to wait, since I have to go to a different town to get it.
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#1213927 - 06/08/09 12:19 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Axtremus]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Originally Posted By: Axtremus
The Korean tofu pot will have to wait, since I have to go to a different town to get it.


Oh poor guy! I could not imagine myself living in a town with such limited choices. Life must be tough there! grin
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#1214023 - 06/08/09 02:26 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Brendan]
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Brendan

Now, let's talk about Bozhanov. I agree that he's an amazing artist and is worthy of merit and distinction. HOWEVER, if he had played in the finals like he did in the prelims and semis, he would have unquestionably won the competition. Something snapped and he all of a sudden became a different pianist. Maybe Conlon rubbed him the wrong way. Maybe he got tired of all the cameras. Maybe he couldn't get the rep up to his standards in time and gave up. He went from being a poetic, sensitive artist to a complete animal with "my way or the highway" as his motto. It was the most baffling thing I've ever seen. He was simply someone else for the entire last round.

ok, he's not perfect at all in his Rach 2, but his Chopin concerto and his final solo recital were quite good, although some may not like his Chopin because of his style. so, it's not a completely different Bozhanov from start to finish. he might have simply got bored or irritated by what everyone has to say about him and the way he plays, and decide to play that Rach 2 differently. who knows. but you just cannot say that he's totally bad in the final. i didn't see it except i felt he's under some sort of pressure in the last couple of days. he's one of artistic type of pianists, more in line with Gould or Pogo type than anyone else. so he will not always be understood by many people. just let it be. that's what i would say about him.

i will try to go to his live recitals in Cleveland competition soon, and i do want to hear his sound again.

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#1214060 - 06/08/09 03:19 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: signa]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1071
Bozhanov has an exquisite sense of touch; an ability to shape phrases and balance voices that exceeds that of anybody else at the competition and puts him in the same league as Lang Lang and Kissin. Of these three, Bozhanov puts these skills to the best use in terms of making convincing and interesting musical interpretations. Kissin is close and Lang Lang is hit and miss in his use of these techniques.

On this basis I am interested in hearing more from Bozhanov, if I can avoid looking at him. I gather from comments on the Van Cliburn blog that Bozhanov had many family members there - sort of an entourage - who shielded him from others, and he was reluctant to give interviews with the press, which is an absolute no, no for a competition that asks for a three year public commitment from its winners.

In other words, he had "attitude". This may be what makes his performances interesting as well, so I could take some of his attitude as an individual since I'm just a member of the paying public, not his manager. I do wish, though, he would get rid of the neurotic facial gestures. He's in danger of becoming as ridiculed as Lang Lang, and that just detracts from his superb playing.

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#1214196 - 06/08/09 06:40 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Numerian]
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6150
Listened to Vacatello's Prok 3 again.

Still electrifying, still satisfying... but now I hold the opinion that she bears more responsibility for getting our of sync with the orchestra in the 1st mov't.

I made it a point to "count the beats" this time and found that she accelerated where there's no justification to (this is subjective) and even chomped the beats (cut the beats short) in a few places (this is less subjective). If I were to take facial expression into account, I'd say that she probably didn't realize that she accelerated and chomped beats.

Same problem at a few places in the 3rd mov't as well.

If I were Conlon, I would so ding her marks.
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#1214216 - 06/08/09 07:17 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: DameMyra]
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
The Tchaikovsky is way off. The next big competitions are the Minnesota E-Competition June 29 - July 10 and Leeds at the end of August.

i'm looking forward to watching Kunz playing again in the E-competition, and seeing Bozhanov live in Cleveland competition (7/28-8/5), and hopefully watching him online in Leeds.

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#1214333 - 06/08/09 11:14 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Axtremus]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1071
Originally Posted By: Axtremus
Listened to Vacatello's Prok 3 again.


If I were Conlon, I would so ding her marks.


Did Conlon get a vote with the rest of the jury? If not, did they accept any input from him? Did Van Cliburn get a vote?

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#1214336 - 06/08/09 11:23 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Numerian]
virtuoso_735 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 996
Loc: California
No vote from either Conlon or Van Cliburn. I don't think either had any input.

I see Haochen's name listed as a competitor in the upcoming Leeds Competition. I wonder if he'll withdraw his name after this.
_________________________
"If music be the food of love, play on." -William Shakespeare

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#1214430 - 06/09/09 05:58 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: virtuoso_735]
timmyab Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 446
Loc: Bristol, UK
Originally Posted By: virtuoso_735
I see Haochen's name listed as a competitor in the upcoming Leeds Competition. I wonder if he'll withdraw his name after this.

I should think so.He'll be too busy for one thing.
Looking at the history of the Leeds competition, I've just noticed what a fantastic year 1975 was.Or maybe the judges were just unusually perceptive.

First prize
Dmitri Alexeev (USSR)
Second prize
Mitsuko Uchida (Japan)
Third prize (joint)
Andras Schiff (Hungary)
Pascal Devoyon (France)

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#1214493 - 06/09/09 09:02 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: timmyab]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3885
Loc: New York
I am curious about one thing. I did not come across much coverage, not even a mention of the winners, in the mainstream media online or in print. Specifically, the NY Times, which often covers a wide spectrum of music including recitals by unknown students in small venues, had a 5 liner today simply stating the names of the competitors and the prize.
Is this the norm? Considering the amount of PR the Foundation seems to put into its competition, and the extensive webcast, it is somewhat surprising that it does not get much discussion or "critique" in the main newspapers. Is this the case in other large newspaper outlets in Boston, LA, Chicago etc..?
I did follow the competition closely and I thought the pianists were wonderful but the overall quality was rather "banal". Certainly the winners were good students but not people with creative musical concepts. Which is not to say they can't develop into great artists.. I did perceive aspects of such creativity in Bozhanov but he is not competition material .. Too individual, too liberal in his reading and interpretation of the scores, but with brillaint music making moments. I do look forward to see what he makes of his talent. He needs to be locked up at the Moscow Conservatory for 2 years with an old school teacher, then something wonderful will probably emerge.
Looking at the roster of winners at the Tchaikovsky competition, one can immediately see that the caliber of finalists there is far superior (Ashkenazy, Ogdon, Pletnev, Sokolov, Douglas, Berezovsky, Lugansky etc). Perhaps the Cliburn's focus on a "marketable" pianist is the problem. It is peculiar that one would put up this extensive show for the sake of commerce and not the actual god of music. It became clear to me during the competition that they are looking for a commercially viable candidate when I had assumed that they are looking for the greatest artist and then they would put their marketing talents at his/her service..
I should add that their "extensive" concertizing tours have not necessarily helped push their winners' careers dramatically, with the exception of a few. Kobrin, Ioudenitch, Philipov, Nakamatsu and the whole 97 crew barely rise above the masses of excellent pianists..
Lining up these two youngsters (Zhang 19 and Tsujii 20) for extensive touring, felt uneasy. They would benefit themselves and their audiences much more if they were to remain more sheltered at their respective schools for a while longer..
Am I way off the mark here??

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#1214507 - 06/09/09 09:25 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Andromaque]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19105
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Andromaque

I did follow the competition closely and I thought the pianists were wonderful but the overall quality was rather "banal". Certainly the winners were good students but not people with creative musical concepts. Which is not to say they can't develop into great artists..

Wonderful and banal at the same time? I think it is way off the mark to classify Zheng as a "good student" without "creative" musical ideas.

It get the impression you think someone has to do something very different to qualify as a good musician or "creative". Does Perahia play things very differently from most? To me he mostly plays things more beautifully than many other pianists, but his interpretations are not so far to one side of the center. I think Zheng played virtually everything with perfect technique, great musicality, extreme beauty and passion.

Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Perhaps the Cliburn's focus is on a "marketable" pianist is the problem. It is peculiar that one would put up this extensive show for the sake of commerce and not the actual god of music. It became clear to me during the competition that they are looking for a commercially viable candidate when I had assumed that they are looking for the greatest artist and then they would put their marketing talents at his/her service..


I didn't get the impression that the Cliburn's focus is on a marketable pianist. I don't see how you can state this as if it were a fact. I don't think marketable and great artist are mutually exclusive.


Edited by pianoloverus (06/09/09 09:33 AM)

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#1214544 - 06/09/09 10:28 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: pianoloverus]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3885
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

It get the impression you think someone has to do something very different to qualify as a good musician or "creative".
I didn't get the impression that the Cliburn's focus is on a marketable pianist. I don't see how you can state this as if it were a fact. I don't think marketable and great artist are mutually exclusive.


I get the impression you misunderstood what I said.
Perhaps I could have explained myself better. I will try again later/
What is most surprising is that you did not sense their focus on marketing!!! They all but said so, plainly!

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#1214550 - 06/09/09 10:35 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: pianoloverus]
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
i am curious that which big competitions actually have named the top prize winners who since have become great pianists in the world as well. i know Chopin Competition did for Pollini, Argerich at least. YL and the latest winner (RB?) are fading however. Cliburn only has Lupu so far.

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#1214598 - 06/09/09 11:33 AM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: signa]
boo1234 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 489
Originally Posted By: signa
i am curious that which big competitions actually have named the top prize winners who since have become great pianists in the world as well. i know Chopin Competition did for Pollini, Argrech at least. YL and the latest winner (RB?) are fading however. Cliburn only has Lupu so far.


The Chopin competition has produced the most stars.
Pollini
Argerich
Ohlsson
Zimerman
Li
..Askenazy and Uchida finished 2nd

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#1214641 - 06/09/09 12:34 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: boo1234]
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5229
Loc: McAllen, TX
International competitions are a dime a dozen these days. It all comes down to personality and sustained marketability after winning to stay in the limelight.

Since the competition is done, I'm unstickying the thread. Good times!
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#1214671 - 06/09/09 01:26 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: signa]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: signa
i am curious that which big competitions actually have named the top prize winners who since have become great pianists in the world as well. i know Chopin Competition did for Pollini, Argrech at least. YL and the latest winner (RB?) are fading however. Cliburn only has Lupu so far.


Cliburn has a lot more than Lupu. Look at the list of competitors for the past 50 years and there are many very recognizable names:

Votapek from 1962
Lupu, Uribe, and Snyder from 1966
Ortiz and Nojima from 1969
Viardo, Rodriguez, and Zacharias from 1973
Toradze, Swann, Hobson, Egorov, and Angela Hewitt from 1977

1981 was a big year, with Schub, Douglas, Rodriguez, Kahane, and O'Riley all past the first stage.

Feghali, Bianconi, Douglas (#1, 2, and 3 in 1985) have all had solid careers, as have Norman Kreiger and Diane Hidy.

Lupo, Angela Cheng, Boris Slutsky, and Sara Davis Beuchner from 1989 have all done well.

Since 1990, many of the competitors went on to various college teaching jobs: Kuleshov (University of Central Oklahoma), Taylor (University of Wisconsin), Bidini (UT Arlington at first, now at a University in Berlin), Kasman (University of Alabama), Ioudenitch (Park University near Kansas City), Pompa-Baldi (Cleveland Institute of Music), etc...

Just last night I heard Andrew Russo in concert. He's been doing a lot of crossover and transcription work (he played his own transcription of Stravinsky Firebird and it was incredible!) He continues to be very busy and is doing some very interesting outreach work at Le Moyne college.)

I say all of this because I think it's important for people to realize that playing concertos with the Chicago symphony is not the only goal or definition of success that pianists hold. They follow a wide range of career paths, some more visible than others, some more mainstream than others, but the vast majority making a living doing something they love and making a real contribution to the musical community.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1214745 - 06/09/09 03:26 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: Kreisler]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1454
One of the requirements to win a competition is to be able to adjust one's style to a certain style that will not offend the judges, yet still amazes them. In a way, Zheng is very clever in this. He can easily change his style to be more bold or to whatever he wants. He was able to control himself to adhere to a certain formula, yet still played with extreme beauty.

It was unbelieavably difficult to play such a long program as perfect as those contestants....

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#1214853 - 06/09/09 06:14 PM Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread [Re: RonaldSteinway]
newport Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 492
Who is Zheng? smile
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Chopin Op.51
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