Has anyone here had experience with the rockschool pop piano or the ABRSM jazz piano syllabuses? I was thinking of using one or both of these as a way of learning, and want to do some research before I buy.

So, first off, is the Rockschool just rock, or would I find jazz/blues there too?

Are the grades roughly comparable? I noticed the Rockschool grades go debut-grade 8 (but no grade 7!) but the Associated Board do grades 1-5 only.

I'm wondering which grade I should start at. I realise no-one here can tell me, but any info would be helpful. As a kid I did grade 8 and more, but that was classical, and it was a long time ago. I remember pieces I played, but I can't remember what grade they were, so I don't know what standard I'm playing at now. Here's a sample of my playing:

http://www.box.net/shared/lsz1ma1lri

What I want to get out of this is to be able to play different genres. Jazz, but not just jazz. Rock and blues too.

I own a couple of the Jazz books, grade 2 & 3. I'd start there because you need to learn the basics. It's not so much the note reading, but the improv part that you'll need to work on. These are good books to get you started. Remember to do lots and lots of listening to jazz to really get a feel for the sound. Jazz is primarily an aural tradition and not a written one.

A book that is great if you're really serious about jazz is "Jazz Keyboard Harmony" by Phil DeGreg.

This thread may help:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1203814/1.html

You'll see that one of our teacher friends here, Pete the Bean, uses the Rockschool Method. IIRC, he has said that its not good as a self study course.

Good luck,
GregF

That's good to know, thanks. I'm just assuming the scales book will be important too? I've not done jazz scales before.

Thanks, GregF. As far as I can see, Pete is singing the praises of Rockschool. Is Pete still around, I wonder?

Now I'm wondering what the difference/connection is between this:
http://www.musicroom.com/Search/gsearch.aspx?searchtext=rockschool+piano

and this:
http://www.rockschool.co.uk/rsl/sites/6/pdf/Rockschool_Order_Form_Sterling.pdf

Also I'm wondering which grade to start at, because I don't want to throw money away. I think Pete mentioned by grade 4 it's already quite complex?

ten Left thumbs: nice playing!
If you were thinking of a self study course then Rockschool is not it. I would take on Tim Richards Explore jazz piano vol 1 and 2 and you will be busy for a good long while. It is not all about jazz. There is latin and other styles there too.

Rockschool piano books contain 6 pieces each. There is a blues, a latin, and a melodic Bruce Hornsby-esque- ish. Some of the grades I can only find 3 songs I like and the rest are not to my taste and not rock.

Technical requirements and ear training examples are included but really the companion guide the guitar books have would be nice. The material is scant. You might learn the scales but there will be no instruction on what to do with what you just put in your fingers. Also, if you need fingering for scales in different keys you will need a scale book The Source Hal Leonard is a good bet.

Where to start. Gr 4 or Gr 5 by the sound of your playing. I have a student who completed her Gr 8 RCM, which is about Gr6 in the UK and Gr 5 was a challenge in the scale and ear training department.

If you want to hear the pieces in the book, go to the music room site and click on the book and scroll down to the bottom of the page.

I use the Rockschool books to force the scales issue and also get my students to read fully arranged scores that make sense and are stylistically accurate. For the free choice piece I use a fake arrangement of a hit song to work up the chords that the students are supposed to be able to know. Also the exam at the end really gets the students motivated to practice.

Thanks for that Pete, that was really helpful!

I have already invested in Beale 'Jazz Piano from Scratch' (Associated Board) which has loads to keep me busy, bar the actual music itself! I think what I might do is just to buy their graded pieces, which at least are quite cheap and will hopefully let me apply what is in the book.

I'm more familiar with the Rockschool guitar material, and what I have seen I was really impressed by. But if the piano material is not as robust, then I might leave it for now.

The Tim Richards books look great, but they may also need to wait.

Thanks again!

If you like the guitar material, Rockschool will have a course Band Based Keys out in September. I am under the impression that it is going to be the same material as the bass guitar and drums.
I was not trying to imply the piano material is not as robust as the guitar material. But if you are self studying then you will not be getting any info on how to apply the technical skill requirements in solos and fills. There is also not any breakdown on elements of a given style.

An example: By George in grade 4 written in locked hand style. No where is there a mention of the locked hand style or how to play in that style. But in the sight reading portion of the book , you are asked to create a melody in that style over the given chord changes and you have 90 seconds to do so. If you are self studying, you are going to have a hard time if this is the only book you are working out of.

I keep raving about the course because my students can get the same external credits for their highschool as the students who study classical music. It forces them to learn the scales and modes because it is a portion of the examination. They can be examined on pieces that contain the style elements that I have been teaching them on lead sheets. It takes a lot of pressure off me to get the students to get down to the grind of practicing the technic.

I think I see - *you're* not telling them to practice scales - *you're* just helping them pass the exam! lol

You're saying the books themselves don't replace a teacher. That's fine, I wouldn't expect them to. I'm not looking for any one thing to show me the way, I'm happy to pick things up from different sources.

So, I have to ask - locked hand style? All I can imagine is, say parallel octoves. I set my hand to octaves and play. Big stretch, loose wrist. Am I anywhere close?

Ten Left thumbs- you are very close re lockedhand. The style is attributed to George Shearing.
The way I teach it is: RH- Melody note stays on top. Harmonize each melody note with 3 notes below the melody in close voicing. LH plays melody an octave below the RH melody using the thumb.
I think Mark Levine wrote a book on the style.
The song I get students started on Locked Hand is And I Love Her- Beatles. Lots of quarter notes in the melody, lots of repetition and no one has ever been knocked over flat because it was too hard.

Good to know, thanks!