I found this forum when I searched for a grand piano. Thanks for all posting, I learned a lot here. As a lucky Californian, I can find Estonia, Bohemia, Schimmel, Petrof within 20 mins of drive (and Steinway, M&H, Shigeru, Bosendorfer... but they are irrelevent to me ).
Here comes the problem, the quote I got for Estonia 190, Bohemia 225 and Schimeml K169 are all above $30K. Those prices seems beyond my impression about what people paid on this forum.
Either they want to charge me good weather tax like real estate here or I am not good enough of negotiation. Or just like cars, it seems everyone always pay lower price than me.
Can't believe my sister just got a K189 for $28k last year, in east coast though.
I have asked a veteran here about the question but didn't get the answer. With those wonderful sounds, I don't want to put off anymore. So here I am, post this question immediately after I am cleared to ask.
Sink.

Hi sink, welcome to the forum.

I guess the question I have for you is where in the negotiation stage did you get those quotes? Were they written on a tag tied to the piano? (If so, disregard them entirely.) Were they the first number out of the salesperson's mouth? (Ditto.) Were they the second estimate uttered as you were getting ready to walk out the door? (Still probably not the best price.)

In short, the only way to find out what is the best price on a given piano is to talk to the dealer, whip out your checkbook, and say, "I'm ready to buy this piano right now if we can work out a price that's mutually agreeable."

This is just a guess on my part, but the fact that you obtained quotes on ALL these pianos suggest to me that the dealer(s) realized you're still early in your shopping around and as such hasn't given you his/her best price.

Another possibility is that prices on pianos have gone up since the quotes you've read here. I don't have the latest Fine price supplement, but you should order it, as that will give you a better idea of a reasonable target to shoot for.

Complicating all of this discussion is that you need to take the prices you see here with a grain of salt. People tend to quote prices mainly when they feel they got a particularly good bargain. It is also not impossible that some prices mentioned may be fictitious.

So, I would worry less about what others claim to have paid here, and instead concentrate on whether *you* feel happy with the deal and the dealer and, last but not least, the piano.

Thanks Monica,

Those quotes are from different dealer and each told me that Euro goes much higher vs USD this year so they can't sell it cheap. I understand that with my check book, I *probably* can get a better price. However, unlike most of the cars, which invoices can be easily obtained. For pianos, some brands have firmer price then the others and the worst is that I don't know where to begin with. I probablly will choose between Bohemia 225 and Schimmel K189. They got different personalities, but somehow, I like both . I will be very happy with either one.

Hi Sink,

As Monica says you should get the Larry Fine books to help you with your quest for a new piano. Here are the prices that Larry Fine has in the 2007-08 Annual Supplement -

Bohemia 225R 7'4" Satin & Polished Ebony $44,780
Schimmel K169R 5'7" Polished Ebony $46,780
Estonia 190 6'3" Satin & Polished Ebony $35,865

These are the prices form which negotiations are supposed to begin. Obviously you are comparing different size pianos, but all prices start above $30K.

If you consider similar size pianos the price picture looks like this (according to Fine) -

Bohemia 185A-BR 6'1" Satin & Polished Ebony $36,000
Schimmel K189R 6'3" Polished Ebony $50,780
Estonia L190 6'3" Satin & Polished Ebony $35,865

Good Luck, John

Yeah, John,
It's true, the similar size piano will be
Bohemia 185A, Schimmel k189 and Estonia 190
But the dealer here in floor has a 225 instead of 185A, and the sound is gorgeous. Schimmel K189 sounds great too. Here, I saw Estonia 190 on the same place of Schimmel K189. They sounds different.
I know the list price of them. but the list price are far far away from sale price. You won't buy a Camry with MSRP, and you know it's about a few hurdreds more or less the invoice price. For me, piano sales are not that transparent, even though those piano cost about the same or more than a Camry.

I've also been looking in the Bay Area for a piano and wonder about the prices here compared to other parts of the country. That's because when I was in my old hometown I priced out the same pianos for much less. I'm debating whether it's worth the long distance shipping for the $multiple thousands less.

Hi Sink,

The prices I provided are from Larry Fine's book which tells you how to arrive at a reasonable selling price based upon those prices. Isn't that what you were asking for?

John

Squonk,

How about DE, no sale tax. potential better price. probably $5000+ difference. .

Sink.

sink,[/b] the dollar has declined c.10% against the euro over the last 12 months. Dealers will consider replacement cost when negotiating, but I don't know how quickly that happens. Even without the depreciation, a price "above $30k" for the Bo 225 is not necessarily excessive. If you took Fine's list price and deducted a 30% discount, you'd still come up with a number higher than 30.

As Monica posted, because you were asking about several pianos, it's possible that the dealer thinks that you're just price shopping. I think that if you zero in on one and let the dealer know that you're ready to buy, you'll achieve a good result.

Re your sister's buy, sometimes dealers want to move stock. She may have benefited from that.

squonk,[/b] everything is overpriced here in Northern California;-) Can you give exampes of price differences in your hometown?

Not sure I can quote exact numbers, but even with delivery, I could put a pianodisc on these pianos and still pay less than the prices I'm getting in Northern California before sales tax is added.

Yikes!

Squonk, FogVilleLad,

My sister actually got the K189 in DE. After some calculation, there is no way I can get the same piano for $5000 more than she paid for if I factor in tax. Good thing is that the dealer where she bought the piano from is closed, so the bay area dealer still got the chance to get my money .

OK, it looks like the dealer in DE was unloading stock. No way you can duplicate that.

Re the 225 vs. the 169, the larger piano should have a much fuller, richer tone, particularly in the bass. Maybe just continue to audition until a clear winner emerges, then make your best deal.

btw, ebay has a list for Schimmel K189, new one, free of shipping. for $30900. Hum.. Squonk, that seems a too good deal for us.....

I know, it's tempting, but more than I was planning to spend. They're a dealer in Florida, and it's a fantastic deal. I found the Schimmel 189 quite a bit more pleasing than the 169. So if you can be more comfortable with the amount, there's your piano.

Hey you guys - that is not only a Schimmel, it is a NW Schimmel! Have you seen or heard one of these? They are fabulous.

Yeah, it's tempting. but don't know if 1. it's really new. 2. is there any defect, 3. how's the sound variation from one 189 to another 189. Really don't know anyone in FL to 'kick the tire' for me. and not sure if I want to bet $31k for $5k saving.

No need to.

There's a whole other market in So. Cal. and costs are generally lower in the Pacific Northwest.

Just continue to audition until a clear preference emerges. Doesn't mean that you won't recognize that there are other very fine instruments, just that you personally prefer the one that you do.

It is common to negotiate to 25%-30% off of the MSRP price. Estonia may not discount quite as much as they are limited and in demand.