Rant warning!!!

I have another pair of sibling who I teach one after the other, a boy and a girl. The girl is quite serious (or would like to be) and the boy is more of a 'play for fun' type. Sometimes one or the other can't make the lesson so I end up with just one for the full time slot which is fine by me. A little advanced warning might be nice so I can alter my planning.

Last week the boy was on holiday his sister took the whole lesson. I was quite glad because she has ABRSM grade 5 coming up in 3 weeks time and she could do with the extra time. With this in mind I would have expected that this week would be back to normal. Oh no! This week the boy shows up on his own because he missed a week. Sounds fair you might think? BUT....he is not working towards anything in particular at the moment and she has her exam shortly. I just can't believe they would be so stupid. She can not afford to be missing lessons right now.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Rant over.

SO whhhhhhhhat if she flunks her ABwhatever grade 5.. She will just do it again. or not...

You all piano teachers have been in cranky mood recently.. How about a "my wonderful students" thread.. It may have therapeutic value..

That's just not good enough. It's not necessary.

Rant away, that's what we're "hear" for. Lol, get it

Honestly I don't think people think sometimes. They probably didn't even realize that DD needed that extra time, they just wanted things to be "fair".

It's all about attitude and taking responsibilty you see.

Over in the UK there is a national obsession with these exams. I would rather they didn't bother but everyone pushes for them all the time. When they commit to doing an exam they do so on the understanding that they will work hard enough to do well. It matters to me for my students to do well because of my reputation and also because I know that failing something is not pleasant. This particular girl cares as well. She would be devestated to fail and is not the kind of girl who does fail. She is a high achiever in academic studies and is perfectly capable. Her only problem is that she has left the bulk of the practice until the last minute as many of them do. Missing a lesson this close to the exam is stupid, especially as there was no reason for her to miss. Her parents should know better as well. It stinks. And I will be telling her so next week.

She is lucky it's 3 weeks off. I only got the dates at the start of the week. I could have been sooner as far as she knew.

AND.....

If she does flunk it she will not just do it again. The next opportunity would be November/December. There's no way I am listening to the same pieces for the next five months. If she flunks she is going to have to learn different pieces for next time and she won't like that.


Think I've done now.

I have a son like that too. I hate to say it, but sometimes that's the best thing for them .
JMO, The sooner they fail the better. My son didn't fail at anything until he went to college and then it was really, really rough. he didn't fail, but he sure got a huge reality check!

I love ranting! It's a great opportunity to blow some steam and the folks here are helpful. Questions for Chris: What age is the young lady student? Will you be discussing the issue with her parent(s) or her directly?

Can I join in too? This isn't really a rant, more of a

"You have GOT to be kidding me!!"

But...
Remember I finally "fired" that mom 2-3 weeks ago?
Well, today I got a check for what she owed me (shocker!!!)
with a note that said "I just wanted to be sure you would be holding her spot for fall so I thought I better pay you".

SERIOUSLY?????
See title of thread please...

Has/had this been clearly articulated to the student and her parents?

She is 14 years old and as I said very intelligent. Certainly old enough to take responsibilty for her own learning. To be fair to her parents they probably just didn't think and were balancing out the lessons because the boy had missed a week. But I feel like she has taken advantage of the situation. After her extended lesson last week it was clear to her that there was much work to do and I was expecting a big improvement this week. I think she has not practised enough and took the opportunity to skive the lesson when her parents suggested it. Had I have anticipated this I would have called the parents to make sure she came but it caught me by surprise. I think I will call them now to check on her progress.

Wonderful comment. So helpful.

We are in a cranky mood from time to time because we face unbelievable crap from time to time. I understand *exactly* what Chris is talking about, and I'd wager most teachers do too.

Well "rant" disclaimer or no, reading the original post and then the ensuing details really makes me wonder. Now I know that I'm a bit old fashion in this regard, but in my book calling someone "stupid" is considered derogatory. The parents were called stupid over a matter that they may have no idea about. And if you consider them "stupid" for not knowing, one can easily argue it's part of the teachers responsibility to keep the parents informed when such situations arise (I realize that he said that he was going to ping the parents, but IMHO that should have been done _before_ any ranting/name calling). A teenager is a teenager, intelligent or not (not to mention the fact that being intelligent and being responsible/mature are different attributes entirely).

Talk about showing people some respect.

Everyone gets to, wants to, NEEDS to rant sometimes.

We are a piano family, so we rant to each other where we can *hopefully* get some support, and it is a *safe* place to do it where no one says something they will regret to the wrong people.

I just came across this website and thought I should add it to my post:

[url=http://][/url] http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/2516854/Bar-encourages-verbal-abuse

It is important to rant!!

Let the rants fly!



Better out than in I always say.

Chris, as my students approach exam time, I frequently ask the more suspect ones if I'll see them next week. Wait, that's not quite correct....I say, see you again next week, RIGHT????

I called up a parent who was just crawling in to bed to read them the riot act because a student missed an important event. What were they thinking? Didn't they want their daughter to excel? Dad answered the phone and told me, in a rather sheepish voice, that mom didn't want to talk to me, because she had guilt written all over her face. I was furious. I told them that I worked my rear end off trying to help their daughter, what possible excuse could the conjure up for not getting her to lessons? Etc., Etc. Etc.

It doesn't matter, mom is too wrapped up in the family business, and daughter misses school events, church events, social events, and of course, piano. Argh.

It could be a possiblity that the girl may not want to sit for the exam because she is not as prepared as she should be and probably that could be a reason why she didn't turn up for the lesson. It seems odd given the prominence that music exams play in the UK that the parents and/or the girl would choose to skip a lesson so close to the exam. Maybe the girl feels overwhelmed and stressed about her possible lack of preparation.

I used to have this mom who would show up late and tell me her daughter would have to have an "abbreviated" lesson. I thought that was hilarious. I've been into interesting terms lately. Abreviated, phased out, etc.

Not at all.

People do stupid things all the time. I certainly do and I am sure that you do as well. We are all prone to being stupid at some point. Yesterday I took my wife out for coffee and whilst in the queue realised that I had left my wallet at home. STUPID!

As for the parents having no idea. Well they know she has an important exam in a couple of weeks time. It's not the first exam she has taken. Is it that difficult to work out that going two weeks without a lesson this close to the exam is a bad idea?

As for the girl not wanting to take the exam. She begged me to enter her for it and promised to work hard.

Sorry, but I have been stewing on this all morning.

It comes to something when you can't sign on to PW for a quick rant without getting your ear bent about respect.

bitWrangler, can't you read between the lines?

End of a long day.
+
Summer term and having to compete with school work, trips and sports activities and events.
+
Exams and recitals fast approaching and nobody seems to care except me.
+
Students winding down for the Summer hols and winding me up in the process.
+
Kids who don't practise and parents who don't encourage them.

=

Frustration and stress which leads to the need to vent.

I know this is a public forum but to me (and others I assume) it's a place where I can share my experiences with people who are in the same boat. Sometimes this involves letting off a bit of steam. We piano teacher's can feel very isolated in this job. We don't have work colleagues to sound off to when thigs get on top of us. This might not be the best place to do so but it's all there is.

So you don't like the word 'stupid'. Perhaps it was a stupid choice of word. What would you prefer? Silly? Thoughtless? Is that a little less derogatory?

Whatever!

Of course I dont really think they are stupid.

Of course she is not really in danger of flunking the exam.

Of course I don't really have anything against these people.

It just wound me up.

You are a parent in a musical family. If your kid had an important exam in a couple of weeks would it not occur to you that missing a lesson was a bad idea?

That's all I am saying.

Now, Chris, that's a first class rant! Feel better?

Getting there.

Off topic, but I had to share this one...

When my son was about 12 he wanted "skinny jeans" so he asked me if I would "edit" his pants for him Lol lol

PS, I did, and it worked fine.

Me too, and I didn't start the rant.

I understood exactly what you were talking about. I almost wrote you a PM.

The smug, condescending answers you got yesterday are typical of responses from people who simply have not faced the stress we face, especially this time of year. Summer is very difficult, for one thing. We do expect all sorts of strange things to happen, yet we still get blind-sided by the few students we have assumed are bit more responsible and serious.

As others have said, most parents look at us as a service, easily replaced. The are whole number of problems we face that I don't think non-teachers (piano) can possibly understand, Chris.

Thwaaack.....(that's the sound of a bulls eye!)

Actually, your response made me "wonder". It seems as though you did everything possible to misinterpret everything Chris was talking about. It started here:





My question to you: why would you assume that Chris has not been clear? Why would you assume that his instructions were vague and that the parents were giving him cooperation? Why assume that the situation is not exactly as Chris described it?


Oh good grief. He didn't call them stupid to their face. He used the word, in a moment of extreme irritation, to describe how they handled lessons, in this situation. I suppose it is beyond you, in irritation, to say of someones actions: "Gosh, that was stupid". You are not being old-fashioned. You are being "holier than thou". By the way, do you teach? Do you have personal experience dealing with the kind of craziness we teachers so often run into?

You do NOT know that. You have suddenly decided to be apologist for parents and a family that Chris knows but you do not.

You are assuming Chris is irresponsible and that he did not keep the parents informed. Why do you make such assumptions?

Yes. Talk about showing people some respect. Your high horse could not be any higher. If you had spent any time reading Chris's posts in this forum, you would know that he is a highly committed teacher and faces some very real problems. But no, you are not interested in that. You'd rather assume he is a jerk and lecture him about how he should have handled a family that you have assumed did nothint wrong or foolish.

Thanks for your support Gary. I do appreciate it but I don't want to be responsible for starting a war here.

bitWrangler, I have read a lot of your posts on the forums and understand that you take your music tuition very seriously and have a good relationship with your teacher. I know you have high expectations of your kids and ensure that they practise regularly as well as giving them plenty of support. You are one of the good ones and I would not like there to be any ill feeling. Sorry if you found my remarks offensive.

I do think this time of year is difficult. This week I have had four cancellations because of school trips or term time holidays. Needless to say they all want make-ups. Hardly any of my students have got anything to show for a weeks practice because they are snowed under with exam revision or have shows or sports events to prepare for. The school where I work cancelled me due to exam week which means I don't get paid. I had a cheque bounce from an adult student. And on top of this I am worried that some students will not perform well in their exams or recitals because of lack of preparation. As we all know piano is bottom of the list of priorities. And yet when things don't go as well as they would have liked they will look to me for answers and explanations.

Anyway, a rant is a rant. I have taken today off and feel better about things now.

Could we just let it go?

This time of year is especially difficult for us in our teaching business. I feel fortunate to have found this forum and all of you classy folk here to discuss these issues with that we face every day. We want to vent and bounce ideas off each other. Of course we may not always agree and that comes out as unsupportive sometimes.
I'm taking Mondays and Fridays off during this summer from teaching, in hopes that it will give me some time to reflect and relax.

What I would do Chris is call and say, "I didn't expect your son to take the entire lesson this week. Because your daughter is doing a piano exam could she please come tomorrow or the day after and pay for an extra lesson?"

Candywoman, that's a really good idea. Unfortunately I don't have any space to fit her in other than the normal lesson time.

I tried to call but they are away for the weekend. That means another couple of days without practice!

I will try again when they are back and maybe suggest she takes the whole time slot again this week so that we can cover everything in detail. I just hope she has been getting on with things on her own.

I once read the following phrase: "Stress is a choice."

What do you think?

Well, it is true. Chris could simply refuse to let students participate in exams, or even recitals, which are also stressful. But would that be best for the students and families? No. And so the choice is made to go through with these things and hope that the student puts forth the effort to do their best.

I had a very stressful recital this year. It seemed as though no one was practicing and preparing, and letting one another down (we did all duets). In the end, it did come together, although not up to the potential that I know the students have.

Most teachers really care how well their students do, not just for their own reputation's sake, but also for the sake of the student. We know what they are capable of if they apply themselves, and ultimately we suffer disappointment when they do not. It can really get to us. Most of us do not want to set up our students for failure, although it seems sometimes they do.

Who wrote that rubbish?

I think I would like to hang them out of the window by their ankles.

Perhaps something even more stressful, like water-boarding?

I had a boss, years ago... somehow I managed to hang on long enough to notice that, as long as he kept yelling at people, he still cared and thought they had a chance. When we noticed he no longer yelled, of course, it meant that he had given up and that person was soon gone from the staff.

So... caring is good. I wonder if it was so good for the boss--- I never found out. Stroke, heart attack, nervous breakdown, divorce court, fatal road rage incident?

My dentist is very caring, but never yells or criticizes. A slight frown is the worst... but I'll tell, you, you never want to see that slight frown.

Glad you got to blow off some steam, Chris. I hope things are better next week.

"...I called up a parent who was just crawling in to bed to read them the riot act because a student missed an important event. What were they thinking? Didn't they want their daughter to excel? Dad answered the phone and told me, in a rather sheepish voice, that mom didn't want to talk to me, because she had guilt written all over her face..."

No doubt it didn't seem so funny to you at the time, John, as it does to me now... but this is delicious; it's as good as it gets. It's like catching one of my dogs red-handed, doing something they know they shouldn't. That shame-faced doggie look--- you don't have to say anything.

So... did the mom shape up?. Maybe not; not if they can get away with it. But there's hope; I could never have four dogs in a condo if they weren't very good animals. They behave well, partly because they love their daddy, and partly because they know it works best for them. So if your student's mom is as smart as my dog...

Someone who probably believes your thoughts determine your reality. Easy to disprove. Just keep saying to yourself ... "I am an orange." See how long it takes to transform. And this from a guy who plays New Age piano. See?

If we choose stress, than this idea fits perfectly into the topic of this thread

It's been a long time since I was at school (a very long time!!) so I don't know if things have changed in that environment too, but a thought occured to me as I was reading this thread.

When I was at school, if I didn't do as well in an exam as I was expected to do, it was considered to be MY fault, not the Teacher's fault. It was becasue I didn't work hard enough, didn't do as I was told by the Teacher, didn't prepare properly etc. It was NEVER considered to be the fault of my Teacher.

It seems to me that exactly the opposite seems to be the norm in the field of Piano Teaching. People seem to think that if a student does well in an exam it's because they have worked very hard and deserve their good grade. If they don't it must be the Teacher's fault.

I don't know how Teachers cope with that as it would do my nut in if I was doing everything I could for a Student and they simply didn't do the work they need to do between lessons to get the grade they should in an exam. And then the Parents think it's MY fault.

Well, you already posted:

So my question is this: how come you have zero problems in all areas when the rest of us have all run into all sorts of problems?

You have no scheduling problems, no problems collecting money, no interference from parents. It's a pretty perfect world you live in. If it's really that good, we should all be taking "lessons in life" from you.

It sure as heck does not bear much resemblance to the world I live in.

It isn't to say I've never had those problems, though. This year has been truly amazing. I do have a small studio, so that reduces the chances of these kinds of things.

I interviewed a potential student this week. I knew (from his previous teacher) that his work was somewhat haphazard and not really what it should be.

I told him this: "You work hard, I work hard. You don't work hard, I don't work hard? Why should I? It is your responsibility to prepare and participate in the lesson and if you don't prepare, you can't really participate."

I do have a studio policy that I have honed through the years that helps eliminate basic issues and the parents read and sign that during the interview. And I've learned to not accept students I don't sense a vibe with, so that also helps.

I don't allow myself to judge my worth by the performance of my students. They are what they are and display the results of the effort they have invested. They are unique individuals and I take them where they are and, if they work hard, they move forward.

You cannot control others, only your response to them.

Gary, you must admit that some teachers would have more problems than others. People's personalities and ambitions really factor into this. For instance if a teacher tries to maximize her schedule to make the most amount of money, she will likely encounter more trouble with make-up lessons both legitimate and illegitimate in origin. If a teacher wants to maximize his pupils' performance at a recital, he will encounter more stress than if he says, "Que Sera Sera!"

Bearing these two considerations in mind, as well as the fact that I have a strongly worded studio policy and am assertive in enforcing it, I have very few problems. Like Minniemay, I now leave more of the responsibility for success in the hands of the students. I experience very little stress in my job.

To some extent I agree with you. I just think some people take this idea too far. For one thing, those of us who teach for a living have no CHOICE but to maximize our schedules. This has nothing to do with ambition. It has to do with financial survival.

I am not a big fan of competitions and recitals, which puts me at odds with many teachers, so my points may seem strange. It is the posturing and condescension from some here that makes me, to be honest, disgusted.

Chris, AZN and John are all involved in recitals, at least, AZN in competitions. For all of them, maximizing performance is probably tightly connected to their reputations as teachers and thus connects directly to how many students they will have in the future, which gets back to income.

I have been arguing against all people who minimize the importance of our making money, as if somehow because of the "noble teaching profession" we should be content to be treated in ways that people in other professions are not. In other words, I have bills to pay. If I can't pay them, I can't continue teaching. And if I can't continue teaching, I at least HOPE that the better students I have would miss having a better teacher than some of the crack-pots in my area, which by the way get a disproportionate percentage of beginners.

Frankly, I had stress down to an absolute minimum until the last year or so, mostly the last year, when our area got clobbered by the current economy. In the past, if people did not show up and did not want to pay, or if parents were pushy and uncooperative, it was also just a matter of saying, "Well, obviously I am not the right teacher for your needs." Then I'd go to my waiting list and fill the spot with more cooperative people.

I myself am facing a situation I've never faced before. I don't have enough students. I can't fill spots. I have at most 2/3rds the number of students I've been able to depend upon in the past, and I don't believe I'm the only teacher facing this, though perhaps the only one who is admitting it, and trying to talk about it.

In short, I believe just about EVERYONE is facing SOME of the stress that so many of us are looking square in the eyes.

So in view of this, when people smugly tell me that they have zero problems, that everything is almost perfect, it doesn't come across to me as sharing. It comes across, to me, as bragging, rubbing it in the faces of those of us who are less fortunate.

In short, if the situation were reversed, if things were again going very well for me, as they have in the past, I would not assume that other people who are having problems just don't know how to handle stress, or have not worded their policies well enough. I would assume that I was extremely lucky and leave it at that.

My oh my, don't check PW for the weekend and whamo



Sorry if I caused an entire morning of angst for you, that was not my intention. _However_ one word that comes up repeatedly, in this forum esp, is "RESPECT". One thing I stress to my kids is that being in a bad mood (regardless of justification) does not give one carte blanche to start treating others negatively. We as parents have to live and breathe this daily, regardless of how bad things are at work, you don't bring it home and take it out on your family. Not the easiest thing to do in reality, but I believe that it's a very important skill to learn. So if you are having a bad day/week/season, I understand, it's not like piano teachers have the market cornered on stressful times of the year. However, I think it's important to still be mindful even (maybe even especially) when you are in "rant" mode.

Plus, if one considers my post a "rant", why are you allowed to "rant" but me not? You could have followed your own words and let me state my piece without having to fire back? You didn't because my post had content that you felt compelled to reply to, no different than mine. The exact context that made it compelling (a simple word such as "stupid" or something broader)
may have differed, but the outcome was the same.



Well that would depend entirely on where we thought the kid was at. If our assessment of the situation was that everything was well in hand, then missing a lesson wouldn't be a big deal (and in some cases even preferable, depends on the kid and the situation though). That's why I asked my original question to begin with.



As I've repeatedly stated in this forum, my view is not that way regarding teachers so my opinions should be placed in that context. Perhaps it's because my views of teachers are not a simply easily replaceable units that makes me have higher expectations (rightly or wrongly). I guess you're saying "It's a teacher thang, you just wouldn't understand".



Actually I didn't assume, that's why I asked. He didn't explicitly state if they, the parents especially, had been explicitly told where she was and where she needed to be in relation to the amount of time available. The whole point is I didn't assume and I didn't want to lay any judgments until I knew what the facts were, one way or the other.



Oh good grief. I just stated my opinion, and even explicitly said it is likely in the minority view. If you wish to consider my feelings about the word "stupid" to be "holier than thou", fine, that's your opinion. I don't even consider your opinion to be "holier than thou", simply your opinion.

To answer your question, I am not a teacher, though I have taught. I have a smidge of insight due to my wife and her many teacher buddies and as I've mentioned before, we've become very good friends with our kids teacher, even to the point of helping her out with some of her misc studio todo's. So, do I have any personal experience, no, not in a direct fashion.



True, I do not know that. That's why I said "that they may have no idea about". I don't know, that's why I didn't make a direct statement absolving them from responsibility here. Curious how you decide to turn that into me being an "apologist".



Well logic dictates that if the parents truly didn't know (note the "if"), then Chris must not have informed them. If that was the case, then I do feel that it is part of a teachers responsibility when instructing minors to keep the parents informed of status esp. when important dates/events are coming up. Plus Chris is the one who, via his reply to my query, backed off placing responsibility and culpability on the parents.



Again curious, "jerk", "high horse". Chris leveled some harsh criticisms at the parents, later backed off those criticisms. I merely pointed out that if those criticisms were not justified, then perhaps they shouldn't have been said. Curious again how you take my statements and decide to interpret them as somehow absolving the family of any responsibility and laying the "blame" solely at Chris' feet. And how it's you who are presenting terms such as "jerk" into the conversation.

This is the teachers forum. Any of you (teachers that is) are obviously free to vent as much as you want. However, it is also a public forum, so if you do vent, and someone takes umbrage with the venting and replies accordingly, then that is to be expected. While I understand that being a music teacher presents a set of frustrations that most folks can't fully appreciate, I do know that music teachers are not unique in having frustrations that many other people can't fully appreciate.

Anyway, my reply has gotten longer than my little mind can cope with on a Monday morning so I'll end it here. Feel free to pile on as deemed appropriate.

keystring posted a video here in the teachers forum in a thread called "just because" that I think might be enlightening to some folks here. It was posted because it had been "making the rounds" of freelancers, who are in, financially speaking, some of the same positions independent piano teachers are. It was hysterical, I thought.

But - it was funny because it was true, and for me the truth came because I've been in retail for much of my working life and I've seen all of it.

The point, for me, of pointing it out in this thread is that in fact teachers, much less piano teachers, are far from being the only folks who have to put up with, um, strange behavior, from the financial side of it. Everything in the video looked like things I've read in this forum.

I've also taught for many years, and I can say that the kind of student behavior I read about here is not unique to piano teachers. I had a college student threaten to tell her mom on me because I had given her a 0 on a homework assignment in which she had gotten no right answers.

So I think it is not true that those of us who are not piano teachers can't understand what piano teachers go thru. I'm currently an independent contractor, and I can tell you that my income is about half of what it was a year ago, tho I choose to use the time I now have to play a lot more piano But by the end of the summer I better have figured out some way to make more money, because I'll be out of savings. Believe me, many of us understand the financial end of it.

Just my perspective -

Cathy

BitWrangler,
I think the whole point of Chris posting was simply to vent. Personally, I have no problem with someone venting, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Now if all Chris did on this forum was vent, then there'd be a long-term issue there with anger. However, this doesn't seem to be par for the course for him. Venting on a forum where there is anonymity and no chance of the students or parents being affected by it. I do not feel as though Chris is "taking it out" on any of us, simply looking for a sounding board to commiserate on. In act, venting is probably the best way to avoid accidentally saying something to someone you would soon regret, or taking it out on an innocent bystander. The things Chris said I can relate to, and when I read it I knew he didn't mean he actually thought they were stupid: it was just his frustration speaking. Perhaps you didn't see it that way, but that is how I took it.

Well, .... well ..... did she?

I don't know, but I never heard from mom

Cathy

I don't see anyplace where there is disrespect here.
I don't see anyplace where he "treated others negatively".
Maybe if he weren't able to vent HERE, he would go home and take it out on his family, but he can do it safely here to get it off his chest.



Unless you have had some kind of situation where you are "stuck" there, have to finish it, and cannot leave, you really can't understand. Teachers of ANY kind are in a place that they frequently cannot control. A teacher cannot simply get up and walk away if they need a breather. A teacher cannot run to the bathroom. A teacher has to keep their cool no matter what happens (and there is frequently "un-cool provoking stuff"!).




I don't think anyone here is saying that.

Gary, in your neck of the woods, the poor economy is causing the decrease in students, I presume. But I wonder if there are other factors going on too. For instance, people are getting married later, having fewer children, divorcing and having less disposable income as a result, putting their children in a wider array of extra-curricular activities, and valuing education less as evidenced by their vacations during teaching sessions. What do you think? Over here, we also have more immigration and there may be cultural issues pertaining to interest in classical piano.

My original point was that _I_ considered him calling the parents "stupid" in this context as a showing of disrespect. Apparently others don't agree, I'm ok with that even if others aren't.



I would venture to guess that many folks are in this situation with their primary sources of incomes (i.e. jobs). I've been in places where telephone operators were not allowed to leave their desks unless it was a scheduled break, for any reason. Those folks had to deal with myriad forms of negativity on the phones all day, every day and they would be fired if they even showed a hint of negativity themselves. Plus that job doesn't have nearly the upside as teaching. I don't want to turn this into a p*ssing contest, just pointing out that there are others who are indeed in somewhat similar situations with regards to dealing with others, often in generally negative contexts.




No, but there is a strong undercurrent where the implication is that teachers are forced to suffer fates far worse than mere mortals. Perhaps I'm reading too much into the statements, but that's the general vibe I'm feeling.

No. The "undercurrent" is that those of us who teach privately, especially full-time, face specific problems that people who do a different kind of job do not. Just as those who do other jobs face problems that we do not.

No one else feels that Chris committed a sin, either major or minor, by venting a bit. You do.

The rest of us are teaching piano. You are not.

The rest of us are listening. You are being judgmental.

It's as simple as that.

Yes, those are highly stressful jobs. I'm certain that they have a *safe* place to go and "rant" too.

The point is he did NOT show any disrespect to the student or to anyone here (except you, and I really don't think he meant to do that). He came here where it is safe, and NO ONE got hurt by it.

You said:


Then you answered yourself with:


Exactly. It was just a rant. Doesn't mean anymore than that.

OK, so we'll agree to disagree on the disrespect part (as in everyone will disagree with my take, but like I said, that's fine).

On a more philosophical note, the fact that "no one got hurt by it" seems to relate primarily to the fact that the parents in question do not appear to be readers of this forum. If however, they were like me, and they did read the original comments and were insulted, would that make Gary's statements any worse or would everyone still feel the same? Again, just curious. No need to justify any responses, unless you feel so compelled, just wondering what everyone's take on that scenario is. I promise not to be judgmental

I think the discussion of my original statement has reached/surpassed any useful point for further discussion.

Then again, you are being just as judgmental of me and my stated opinion.

I normally don't post over here, but this thread had me thinking about the situation.

Chris was absolutely right in being stressed over the situation. I sure would be, and have been in the past. Some people just don't get it that time ticks by without waiting for people to get their act together.

I've had this happen in college classes where the fellow student team members take their time posting additions and revisions to team projects. We would get down to the wire with nothing happening, then there's that last minute push to get everything together. In the mean time, my stomach is in my throat, my heart is pounding, and the non-committed students wander in like nothing is wrong!

In part I blame this on the parents. THey don't see the work at the piano as "work" and treat music studies as low priority. Like any sport that replaces piano lessons, the work at the piano requires a good attitude, hard work, and consistency. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but you all know what I mean.

John

ps. I've been accepted academeically into UMASS Lowell's Music Department as an undergraduate for Music Education. I still have to audition, which is coming up in July or August

Question for bitwrangler:

If you don't approve of us "ranting" here, how do you suggest we let off steam?
I'm not trying to stir things up, just curious as to what you think would be a better venue.

Perhaps a drink? Kicking the proverbial cat?

I have seen an awful lot of posts where someone doesn't agree with someone. That's fine. But if that's the case, why not offer an alternative?

I see the OP as no different than a teacher talking to other teachers in the teacher's lounge. Not in the hallway or in front of students.

If you are one of those rare people who truly never has anything negative to say about anyone else, than I commend you. That is very unusual. If however, you sometimes need to let off steam, where do you go to do it?

Congratulations!! That is really wonderful! You must be so excited

Good luck

Well I never called out Gary for simply "ranting". Like I said before, I understand how frustrating dealing with the public can be (along with all the other things in life one has to deal with). I think I already mentioned in a previous post that I felt he was free to blow off steam in this forum if he chooses. But this is not a "teachers lounge" from a practical standpoint, it's a public forum. As such, when statements are made, one has to always take that into consideration. Like I've said, I'm a parent, I'm here, as are other parents.

I don't know what the "solution" is, or even if there needs to be one. I know the concept of a true "teachers only" forum has been bandied about, though personally I think that we as a total community would be lesser for it. Perhaps a "teachers lounge" forum for non-technical banter/ranting/etc?

Yeah, that's the ticket. A rant-only forum! Not.

I understand all sides of this little dispute, which doesn't help much. It's nice to be able to let off a bit of steam once in a while without worrying about all the niceties. On the other hand, this is a public forum, as bW suggests.

The things I'm talking about are economic issues. For example, I have one first year student who is excellent. I know the parents love what I'm doing. But the dad lost his job, out of the blue, right at the end of the school year. I know they will return if they can find a way, but it may also happen that they will be forced to leave this area to survive. More parents have told me that they have had to stop lesson due to money in the last year. These problems began roughly in late 2007 or early 2008.

One of my neighbors is an architect. Or was. He is now steam-cleaning houses. Two of my relatives lost their jobs, cut.

Another of my parents, an assistant principal, told me that she was given the job of laying off teachers through memos that suddenly appeared on her desk at the end of the year. If you listen to the news, the economy is talked about every night. We are at close to 10% unemployment nationally.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laumstrk.htm

Florida is 39th, a bit above 10%, but I believe this is misleading, because that is the whole state. South Florida, I believe, is worse.

We also have one of the worst insurance problems in the country (insanely high), so that too is driving people out of the state.

The problems I'm talking about are DIRECTLY linked to the economy.

According to statistics I just read, south Florida is at 10%. Where I live, it's 15.5%. Where my friends live in Indiana, it's 20%.

When the economy is bad, we all need to be a bit more creative. I switched to a 12-month tuition plan so that the cost of the lessons is spread out and the cash flow is easier for everyone. I'm considering offering group lessons so that the cost is lower for the students, but I can still make income.

Your glass is either half full or half empty. Be frustrated, yes, but don't stay there. It's not healthy.

It helps to vent/rant/discuss our issues as teachers here in this forum. It is healthy to do that. I live in CA, too, and yes it's tough here. I lost 4 students this spring due to parents losing jobs.
We all have our frustrations and I would ask if we can simply respect and OFFER SUPPORT to each other here, so we can all do better and make our businesses as professional and efficient as possible, so that we can be happier Sorry to sound like a pollyanna here, but I am looking for ways to improve my business and network with other teachers as we go along together. I'M NOT LOOKING TO RIDICULE, CRITICIZE, OR PISS OFF ANYBODY. This is a teachers' lounge, come on everyone lighten up.

Never take a student's action or progress too personally, otherwise you'd just drive yourself crazy. Remember, kids have school, sports, friends, arts, dance, etc....all needing their attention. 25% may be 100% of all they can give at that time.

I reckon if you ask any parent, they'd rather their kids excel in school than piano. Even those that are considered "prodigies" and show exceptional talent need to be given space to grow.

Self motivation really is the best way. I've read alot of stories where kids had to stop playing for a while, just to get their life back. Same thing happens with sports prodigies... think young tennis or gymnastic stars.

Not my parents. They knew I had no interest in grade point average or test scores and supported my desire to score high on auditions. I knew what I wanted to major in, and they supported me. I don't believe I'm the only one who had that experience.

However, I have never pushed a student to follow my course. For most they do need the grades for scholarships, since few will be successful enough in music to make a living in that area, especially in performing.

This is an interesting thread. As you know I rarely post over here in the teacher's forum, but this topic hit home.

For some reason many people feel that they have all the time on their hands when in reality they do not. They under estimate the amount of work to be done, and end up rushing in the end to make up the difference.

I ran into this in some of my college classes. We would have a team project to do. There would be five or six people on a team, and only two or three would do the work. We had a major deadline to meet in order to receive proper credits for these classes and no one shows up for our scheduled meetings.

In the mean time, my heart is pounding in my head, my stomach is in a knot, and I can see the hands on the clock whizz around the face like it's being turned by hand.

Why does this happen? I think because people are not taught how to handle priorities. I blame it on the parents. If the kids were taught that being late, or rushing things at the last minute, is bad then perhaps they would learn to plan accordingly.

The other thing to I don't think many parents realize the hard work that's involved with a performance. Now I know that I'm preaching to the choir here, but the if the parents understood that studying piano or music is just as much, if not more work, than needed to be successful in sport, then perhaps they would take a different view on it. Music is considered entertainment and falls into the cracks as a low priority over sports events and other things.

John

I don't really understand this presumption that people are dense. Yes of course, some people have IQ lower than 100. Roughly half, if I recall. :-)

Someone can have very different preferences (or priorities, if you will) and that does not make them stupid. And some people (children) have very different work styles, and that is not necessarily the fault of their parents.

On priorities, someone who uses music as a pastime may not see the urgency that you teachers see. They may not sweat the consequences as much as you sweat them for their children. This does not mark these parents as stupid. They may know full well that true mastery requires diligent effort over a long time span. They may know full well that to become the star guard on the basketball team requires endless hours on the tarmac handling a ball and practicing footwork. Their son or daughter may be doing this work at the same time that they are shirking on your assignments. Or their child may be spending every pre-dawn morning in a swimming pool practicing strokes and building endurance. It may be a bit of a conceit to think that everyone must accord what you do the same importance and prioritization that you give it.

As always, good communication helps. If they're telling you (or pretending to you) that piano lessons are crucial while their and their children's behavior suggests the opposite, well, that's a recipe for acid indigestion.

On work styles: I have known many successful people who are last minute rushers. My first college girlfriend was one ...... long story. Needless to say, I'm not one. Actually, I have not known many last minute rushers who are failures. I suspect that is because failures tend to get weeded out and therefore the people who tend to succeed in whatever it is that they do begin to associate with fewer and fewer failures of any sort. On the other hand, I have also known many successful tortoises -- the people who plan carefully and who work slowly and deliberately toward an end. People sort of like .... me!

Many of our work habits are reflections of who we are .... they're hard wired. My wife and I are methodical. I have two children. One is methodical and the other is a procrastinator. I dare anyone to say that my 'rusher' child is MY fault. Go ahead, make my day.

I agree with you. One of my students rarely practices more than an hour a week. Her parents are very intelligent. She is very intelligent. But she is aiming for law and entry into one of the top schools for that. Her grades are high enough so that she has a very good chance. She chooses to continue taking lessons, every Saturday, and when she says that most of the time she has no more opportunity to practice, I believe her. We always concentrate most on reading, on being able to pick up new music and get the big things. I have told her again and again that she may have more time later, and if she does, I want her to have a strong reading foundation, then she might be able to accomplish many things that she has had not chance to do as a teen.

My take: actions speak louder than words. When people say that piano is very important but put little or no time into it, I simply assume they are not honest with themselves, and I kick back, take it easy. There is no sense in pushing in such situations.

I don't think you will find too many people who work that way when preparing performances though. I do it only when I have to, and I am able to get away with it because of my reading ability. But for a program played in public, as a soloist? There I would say that last minute rushing is almost a sure recipe for disaster.

I would add that the way public education crams everything at the high school level makes a procrastinator out of all honors students! Such cramming makes students exceptionally good at managing time and delaying the delayable; however, it also makes things a lot less perfect.

In retrospect, it's probably better to accomplish fewer things, but do them more perfectly, instead of trying to do everything and be halfway decent at many things. Some of the classes I took in high school and college are a complete waste of my life and time, which should have been spent at practicing piano more.

I try to tell my high-school-age piano students the same thing, but I'm afraid many of them are heading for the procrastination route. These kids believe--if they don't do 50 extracurricular things--they'll never get into Harvard.

I'm sure this is a sentiment most of us can share. Yet I'll wager it's easier to say in hindsight than prospectively. Most high school students (and many in college) really don't know what they want to do. They're still discovering who they are.



And if they do 50 extracurricular things they most assuredly WON'T get into Harvard. The top places are not looking for the proverbial 'jacks of all trades' precisely because of the rest of that phrase.

I would say that public education rewards cramming. It's all ABOUT cramming. The students I have who have high grades and who score well on standardized tests all agree with me: the goal is to pass the tests, not to learn.

Piano is different. Cramming is useless. It doesn't work well. The idea of not practicing after a lesson and then trying to get it all done one or two days before the next lesson leads to total failure.

However, there is obvious carry-over from good piano practicing habits to at least some other subjects. Cramming is also useless for doing well in a forgeign language, and those students who attempt to cram for tests eventually outsmart themselves. They do not absorb vocabulary or structures, so they build on quicksand.

Indeed. The rushers aren't likely to succeed at this sort of task. But what I'm really talking about are the people who are able to condense a lot of intensity into short bursts. The ability to do that is not incompatible with the ability to plan for the long run. My wife is actually a planner and an intense burst worker. I am most definitely NOT an intense burst worker. If I start an important task the night before, I will not do a good job. My wife, on the other hand, can work intensely on something for six hours straight and produce an amazing outcome.

This intense burst skill is probably more innate than learned. I suspect this skill can be quite useful to a musician, though one cannot learn the instrument this way.

I think most people are "mixtures". However, working in intense bursts and doing so right before a deadline are not the same thing to me.

This may have something to do with "steady practice". I have never practiced steadily. Repetition makes me crazy, and the whole idea of doing the same thing, day after day, is a mind-killer for me.

I definitely think you are on to something, and I do think it is linked to our basic personality.