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#1219787 - 06/19/09 06:58 PM Would switching to a grand piano help my playing?
pianogal37 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 214
Hi, I am hoping to get some advice. I am 37 and practicing with the hope of taking my Grade 10 piano in a year. I have a Yamaha u1. I hate the color (walnut, bought it used) but like the piano, passed my Grade 10 on it 15 yrs ago, then stopped playing. I am very seriously considering buying a Grand (GC2 or C3) but I want to be realistic about what I expect from it. I play 1.5 hours per day average. The grands are beautiful pianos, but also a big investment. Would I learn better or be more effective with a grand?
_________________________
Bach French Suites No. 6, Allemande and Gigue, Beethoven's Pathetique, Chopin Nocturne 72/1, Fantaisie-Impromptu, Debussy's First Arabesque, Takacs Toccata Op 54, Rachmaninoff Etude-Tableau 33/8.

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#1219790 - 06/19/09 07:09 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: pianogal37]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19644
Loc: New York City
I'm not sure whether you'll be better but you'll probably be much more inspired by the sound of a grand. As a result you may practice more.

In other words, I think you should also factor in the increased enjoyment of playing a bigger piano in trying to decide if the purchase is worth it.

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#1219802 - 06/19/09 07:48 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: pianoloverus]
abcdefgh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 203
It really depends on the individual, if you have to money and space then use.

Personally, my grand arrived 3 weeks ago and my technique has skyrocketed!
Pieces that would take me months on my old piano are literally taking hours. I've learnt 2 debussy preludes and a schubert impromptu since Monday.

I put that down to the better piano allowing my technique to flourish!

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#1219804 - 06/19/09 07:51 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: pianoloverus]
Ted Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1518
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Pianoloverus has made a most important point here. It isn't just an objective, clinical matter concerning costs and measurable technical benefits. Creating music at an instrument is deeper and more emotional than these things. Speaking for myself I wouldn't swap my grand for anything else. I played it so hard over its first two decades I more or less buried the action and had to have it rebuilt, fortunately with excellent results, but there's no way I would switch to an upright or digital.

On the other hand, it may be that you would get just as much enjoyment from an upright; many good players do. Play a variety of grands. Let intuition, and emotional and musical response play a larger part in your decision. The right answer will be very obvious before too long.
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#1219807 - 06/19/09 08:03 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Ted]
abcdefgh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 203
Originally Posted By: Ted
The right answer will be very obvious before too long.


Nothing is truer when it comes to picking your piano smile

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#1219815 - 06/19/09 08:26 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: abcdefgh]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4441
Loc: San Jose, CA
One way to make up your mind might be to do some serious shopping, checking out dealers, instruments, prices. Part of the process is playing the candidates long enough to get a sense about them. Checking out lots of different makes and sizes, besides the one you have in mind, could help you get perspective it would be hard to acquire otherwise.

I can only tell you one thing for sure: don't get walnut veneer this time.
_________________________
Clef


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#1220094 - 06/20/09 02:08 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Jeff Clef]
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
Wait. Your upright enabled you to pass the exam before.
It's still the same piano. Why can't you pass the exam
again on it? I'm not familiar with the grade 10 exam, but
I wonder why you're going to take it again, after you've
already passed it.

"Investment" is not the right word. An investment is
something you expect to increase in value over time,
while pianos decrease in value with time.

I think that deep down you already know the answer, but
don't want to face it. If a grand could improve your
playing, why stop with a GC2? Go all the way and get a
$100,000 concert grand. But you wouldn't do that because
you know a concert grand could not improve your playing.
Neither can a GC2.

Buying a GC2 on credit would be an act of insanity in
my opinion. You quit before. What happens if you buy
it and quit again? You'll be making payments that
you can ill-afford on it while it sits unused.

However all's not lost because there is an inexpensive
solution to your problem. Digital pianos. I've
found digitals to be the greatest thing that's ever
happened to pianists. They've been my salvation as
a pianist and have enabled me to progess from
advanced-intermediate pieces to big-time stuff
like the Chopin op. 14. I currently play a $600
digital and it serves better than any grand could.


Edited by Gyro (06/20/09 02:14 PM)

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#1220095 - 06/20/09 02:15 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Gyro]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Nothing to see here folks. Move along. Nothing to see here. smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1220102 - 06/20/09 02:30 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Horowitzian]
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
Horowitzian, I don't think you even play the piano or
even have a piano, certainly not the Steinway that you
claim. You're just copying stuff about pianos and
playing off the internet and posting it as your own words
and views.

Learn how to express yourself so that we can hear your
own words and opinions. And get a piano and learn
how to play.

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#1220110 - 06/20/09 02:40 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Horowitzian]
Arghhh Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 1178
I typically get more out of practicing on the grands at school than on my upright at home. Part of that may be because I have a 90yr old upright that has really old hammers (it still works much better than the uprights at school). A good, well regulated and voiced upright may be a better use of your money.

My suggestion is to find a grand piano you can practice on for a few days instead of your upright. What difference does it make for you? Can you do things on it that you can't at home? An option if you don't like the idea of practicing at a store, is if there is a university or college close to you that has their practice rooms open in the summer (although the pianos won't be very well tuned). Then you can answer for yourself if a grand would be useful for you.

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#1220116 - 06/20/09 02:45 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Gyro]
CherryCoke Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 531
Originally Posted By: Gyro


"Investment" is not the right word. An investment is
something you expect to increase in value over time,
while pianos decrease in value with time.


In many cases, this is incorrect.

Quote:

However all's not lost because there is an inexpensive
solution to your problem. Digital pianos. I've
found digitals to be the greatest thing that's ever
happened to pianists. They've been my salvation as
a pianist and have enabled me to progess from
advanced-intermediate pieces to big-time stuff
like the Chopin op. 14. I currently play a $600
digital and it serves better than any grand could.


I would love to hear your Chopin. Please post a recording if you think of it. I'm not a fan of digitals, but to each their own.

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#1220128 - 06/20/09 03:11 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Gyro]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: Gyro
Horowitzian, I don't think you even play the piano or
even have a piano, certainly not the Steinway that you
claim. You're just copying stuff about pianos and
playing off the internet and posting it as your own words
and views.

Learn how to express yourself so that we can hear your
own words and opinions. And get a piano and learn
how to play.

_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1220135 - 06/20/09 03:24 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Horowitzian]
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
This is what I mean. You can't find any sentences on
the internet that you can copy for a reply, and
so you post this ridiculous animation.

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#1220198 - 06/20/09 05:28 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Gyro]
pianogal37 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 214
Thanks to Clef for the advice on Walnut veneers, believe me, never again! I thought it wouldn't bother me, and the price was great.

To Gyro, the reason I am redoing Grade 10 is that I had a 65 (pass) and to do the performer's diploma (ARCT) you need a 70 in Grade 10 in the RCM.

I "quit" piano because I did an undergrad degree and a postgrad degree while raising 3 kids and caring for my grandmother. I couldn't devote 2 hours a day to practice, it would have compromised my work, caregiving and parenting.
_________________________
Bach French Suites No. 6, Allemande and Gigue, Beethoven's Pathetique, Chopin Nocturne 72/1, Fantaisie-Impromptu, Debussy's First Arabesque, Takacs Toccata Op 54, Rachmaninoff Etude-Tableau 33/8.

Top
#1220229 - 06/20/09 07:03 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: pianogal37]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4441
Loc: San Jose, CA
"Thanks to Clef for the advice on Walnut veneers, believe me, never again!"

It was your own advice--- no wonder you liked it.

When you're trying out grands, there are a few features that really do make them different from uprights, and you might see if it makes a difference for your technique. One is, the way the una corda pedal works to change tone color, since a less-used part of the hammer strikes the strings (and also, fewer strings are struck). An upright moves the hammers closer to the strings, which throws it out of regulation to make it quieter (but tone color is unaffected)--- it's an essentially hopeless problem; a workaround. Grands, of course, move the action sideways and the regulation is unaffected.

Few uprights have a working sostenuto pedal. Some feel it is essentially unnecessary, but a lot of classic works do benefit from its use (Ravel, Debussy, many others). If you don't have one, you can hardly develop the technique of using it.

Most grands have longer keys (I mean the part behind the fallboard), and the touch is different--- many say, easier to control, and it's possible to regulate the touch more the way it suits your playing style. Also, grands are able to repeat notes faster than an upright--- probably faster than most of us can go anyway, but having the headroom might mean you're not going to smack your noggin on the ceiling... or worry about it.

Then there's the sound. Longer strings, more exposed soundboard, top that lifts out of the way, removable music desk (boy does that make a difference in what you hear!), and better potential for voicing the hammers. That alone may not be enough; there are wonderful uprights and poorly-made grands, but yes, the sound you can produce does influence your technique.

Maybe others can point out other things. I can't say much about half-pedaling or some other techniques that I've heard about, but have little experience with. Anyway, I think you can make up your own mind and find what's going to work out best for you.


Edited by Jeff Clef (06/20/09 07:05 PM)
_________________________
Clef


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#1220236 - 06/20/09 07:31 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: abcdefgh]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1646
Loc: northern California
Originally Posted By: bryanw
It really depends on the individual, if you have to money and space then use.

Personally, my grand arrived 3 weeks ago and my technique has skyrocketed!
Pieces that would take me months on my old piano are literally taking hours. I've learnt 2 debussy preludes and a schubert impromptu since Monday.

I put that down to the better piano allowing my technique to flourish!


What type of upright "old piano" did you have before getting your grand? There are some awesome uprights. What frustrates me is when people assume that "a grand" is better than "an upright". Example:
I have a Steinway upright in excellent condition and while it does not have a sostenuto pedal, it offers everything I want in a piano to practice on, compared with all grands I've played with the exception of the very pricey ones I can't afford. I could go out and buy a cheap "grand", just to have a "grand", but it would have to be a darn good one to replace my upright.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1220259 - 06/20/09 08:15 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Arghhh]
Fredil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 216
I have an upright at home. It's a great upright - also a U1 smile However, I find that I play MUCH better on a good Steinway! wink

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#1220281 - 06/20/09 09:44 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Fredil]
Synapse Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 68
Loc: Vermont
Unless the money isn't a big deal or you're deciding to get really serious (ie trying to pursue a career as a concert pianist or setting up a large teaching studio) I wouldn't think that a grand piano would be the best way to spend your money. This year I started practicing on my high school's grand piano 2-3 days a week (I have a Petrof upright that I am very indifferent to at home), I admittedly did see a large jump not only in my technique, but also in my ambition and love for the piano. Why not try to find a grand piano in a public or semi-public area that you can practice on for a few hours a day? There must be some library, performing space or school in your area that would be willing to let you practice on their grand piano if you ask their permission.


Edited by Synapse (06/20/09 09:45 PM)

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#1220282 - 06/20/09 09:45 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Fredil]
lacrymosa85 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 81
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I think the motivation that switching to a grand gave me was responsible for any improvement in my playing. I don't think I could say the grand improved my technique, but rather, I had better control of the sound, and also, the nicer tone qualities that were produced gave me an incentive to play an extra hour or so per day.

I think if the determination is there to begin with, then an upright will be sufficient for any pianist. However, I can definitely see why having a grand piano instead will motivate you to play more, and as a result, improve.

Matthew
_________________________
A painter paints pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.

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#1220643 - 06/21/09 05:07 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Gyro]
CherryCoke Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 531
Originally Posted By: Gyro
This is what I mean. You can't find any sentences on
the internet that you can copy for a reply, and
so you post this ridiculous animation.


I know how you feel. After all, you completely ignored my reply. frown

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#1220725 - 06/21/09 08:01 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playi [Re: Gyro]
David-G Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: London
Originally Posted By: Gyro
If a grand could improve your
playing, why stop with a GC2? Go all the way and get a
$100,000 concert grand. But you wouldn't do that because
you know a concert grand could not improve your playing.

I suspect that the main reason why you wouldn't get a $100,000 concert grand is because it costs $100,000...

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#1220727 - 06/21/09 08:03 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: pianogal37]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: pianogal37
Hi, I am hoping to get some advice. I am 37 and practicing with the hope of taking my Grade 10 piano in a year. I have a Yamaha u1. I hate the color (walnut, bought it used) but like the piano, passed my Grade 10 on it 15 yrs ago, then stopped playing. I am very seriously considering buying a Grand (GC2 or C3) but I want to be realistic about what I expect from it. I play 1.5 hours per day average. The grands are beautiful pianos, but also a big investment. Would I learn better or be more effective with a grand?

It might ... in the short run. Soon, the new amazing sound of the grand will fade into the background and the next question you'll be asking yourself is "should I buy a Steinway?" It's a trap. But, if you're wealthy go for it!
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1220957 - 06/22/09 11:26 AM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: Barb860]
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 1651
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Barb860

What type of upright "old piano" did you have before getting your grand? There are some awesome uprights. What frustrates me is when people assume that "a grand" is better than "an upright". Example:
I have a Steinway upright in excellent condition and while it does not have a sostenuto pedal, it offers everything I want in a piano to practice on, compared with all grands I've played with the exception of the very pricey ones I can't afford. I could go out and buy a cheap "grand", just to have a "grand", but it would have to be a darn good one to replace my upright.


You make an excellent point, Barb, and we would all do well to read the underlying meaning in your words. Ever wonder why, on PianoWorld, the "Piano Forum" has 3-4x the number of viewers than the "Pianists' Corner" or "Adult Beginners"? So many are obsessed with the piano, which when all is said and done is simply an object.

Sure, if I were wealthy I could pick up a Steinway or a Faz or a Bosie and have bragging rights... but it would not transform me into a top-tier pianist. All it would get is bragging rights as a sort of status symbol. Nothing wrong with that per se, but I would suggest that the time and effort one puts into learning and ultimate mastery is of infinitely greater worth than the instrument itself.

Also, eweiss' post above deserves support: the "grass is always greener over there." Have something adequate, and just PLAY and enjoy it! thumb

JMO
_________________________
http://www.ecital.net
Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

Don't click here!

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#1221024 - 06/22/09 01:15 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: eweiss]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18292
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: eweiss
[...] Soon, the new amazing sound of the grand will fade into the background and the next question you'll be asking yourself is "should I buy a Steinway?" It's a trap. But, if you're wealthy go for it!


This suggests that we are all more materialistic than we are musicians. I and a number number of pianists I know are very happy with the pianos we have and have no allure for the "trap".

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1221150 - 06/22/09 05:29 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: BruceD]
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
PianoGal,

I say go for it. You owe it to yourself at this stage in your life. You've "paid" the price and worked really hard at everytyhing you have done so now's the time to give yourself an instrument you will enjoy.

So having said this, go piano hunting. I would not however, jump at the first instrument that comes along during your piano search. Take your time and try as many pianos as you can; both uprights as well as grands. Try some that are way out of your financial abilities, and then settle on an instrument that you'll hopefully be happy with for a very long time, and one that you can reasonably afford.

In my piano search, which was done going on 4 years ago now, I tried well over 30 pianos. These ranged from cheap consoles to very expensive grands. In the end, I found an instrument that I loved and I could afford at the same time. And nearly 4 years later, I'm still in love with my piano.

John
_________________________
Nothing.

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#1221205 - 06/22/09 07:21 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: BruceD]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: eweiss
[...] Soon, the new amazing sound of the grand will fade into the background and the next question you'll be asking yourself is "should I buy a Steinway?" It's a trap. But, if you're wealthy go for it!


This suggests that we are all more materialistic than we are musicians. I and a number number of pianists I know are very happy with the pianos we have and have no allure for the "trap".

Regards,


Good point. I don't know anyone who isn't happy with what they have. smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1221217 - 06/22/09 08:11 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: Horowitzian]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4841
Loc: Seattle area, WA
smirk I assume you are being sarcastic. I labored on a Baldwin Acrosonic for decades. It had heavy action that my tech was not able to fix.

When I got my grand (Steinway O), the salesman told me it would take about 2 years to get used to and my technique would improve drastically in those two years. He was absolutely right.

I adore my "O" but would trade it for a B or D if I had the room.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1221261 - 06/22/09 09:14 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: gooddog]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Well, I don't know anyone who owns a real "Piano Shaped Object", is what I'm getting at. smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1221312 - 06/22/09 10:51 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: Horowitzian]
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 1646
Loc: northern California
Originally Posted By: Horowitzian
Well, I don't know anyone who owns a real "Piano Shaped Object", is what I'm getting at. smile


or, as my tech calls 'em:
"FWS's"
(firewood with strings) laugh
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1221315 - 06/22/09 11:10 PM Re: Would switching to a grand piano help my playing? [Re: Barb860]
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
Back when I played golf, I thought the next new putter would help my score - it never worked that way.
_________________________
"She loves to limbo, that much is clear. She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier"
http://roadhouseallstars.com/

David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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