Hi all,
I'm wondering what you'd recommend for this situation:

I bill my students monthly. If they cancel they get a makeup to use within that month, but there are no refunds.
Many of my clients take extended vacations, some gone for a month at a time. I allow two weeks of unpaid travel, more than that I bill for whether you're here or not. This is only to accommodate those who travel. I know some will disagree with my policy, but it's in my contract.
I gave out a summer schedule at my spring recital and restated this policy. I requested that any travel dates be submitted by June 7th, etc. I just had a client cancel a lesson through email and end it with "we'll see you July 6th". That's two more weeks of missed lessons. I'm unsure of how to bill this.

I plan on billing for all three weeks (he's already paid for this month, so the issue will be how to bill July). I don't think this warrants a reduced monthly fee for July, but am not sure how to handle it if he complains. "We didn't have a lesson for the last three weeks, why doesn't the bill reflect that?" Does anyone think he should get a reduced bill?

Just to be clear: you allow two unpaid spots per month right?

that is extremely generous IMO.I bill quarterly, and only allow 2 missed (unpaid) lessons. Sorry, not about me

If I'm understanding you correctly; that you have stated this in your policies, then what I would do is:

send him the bill AND a copy of your contract, with the part about missing lessons highlighted. Then I would include a note with "have a fun vacation, and let me know if you have any questions".

I don't know how long you've been teaching, but I have leaned that the sooner these things are cleared up the better. Many of these people will take the proverbial mile, every time they get the chance!

It is possible he didn't understand? Or maybe forgot?

+1

Sorry - let me be clearer - I allow 2 unpaid lessons for the entire summer and ONLY during the summer. I cancel over Christmas, but I don't travel over the summer {can't afford it :(} so, it's not like they can plan to travel when i'm gone (not that they would anyway!)

this parent is VERY flakey. always misses makeups, payment, etc. If i don't email him with specific instructions, i can bet he doesn't get it. I send home quarterly newsletters and he admitted a few lessons ago that he's never paid attention to them. go figure. I know he received the reminder about summer lessons and never returned anything to me. arg.

Sounds like my earlier post would still work then.

Just highlight the part about missing lessons, and bill him!
Seriously. Especially if he's flaky

I enjoy my summers and simply don't want to teach every day, so I request students schedule lessons on Tues/Wed. If they can make it, fine, if not, fine. Rates are reduced as a "reward" for studying with me during the school year. If parents cannot figure out a bargain and a heck of a great deal, it's their loss.

Why do you think that someone has to pay for not having the lessons? Is money really everything that matters? What about happiness when you know that you are the one to blame for student's improvement?

GreenRain,
While the client may not have lessons, I cannot fill those slots since everyone comes at the same time every week. So, they pay because they still want to have a lesson slot when they return, also for the time it takes to process all the billing, rearranging, etc. This parent will have makeup lessons available if they wish to take me up on it.
Money is not all that matters, but I do have bills to pay, etc. And finally, I'm not the one to blame for a student's improvement or lack thereof if they only have a lesson 1x a month!

hopefully that sounds more reasonable to your sober eye

You must not be a teacher.
I get families all the time that want a lesson here and a lesson there. I have to charge for time, otherwise I have no budget!

If a family wants to take piano, then they need to pay for the privilege of it. If they want one lesson a month, they are not learning the piano, they are fiddling with it.

Well said, E&I and Mrs.C!

I sometimes feel we'll never be appreciated.

They're not paying for NOT having a lesson; they are paying for me to set aside a time slot specifically for them. When they cancel a lesson or don't show up, I am the loser if I can't fill that time slot with a paying student. So why should I lose money for something a student/parent did?

Or to phrase it a bit more from a student's reference point, you've contracted with me to be present, provide a studio, instrument, etc., and to teach you. I fulfilled my half of the bargain and you need to fulfill your half.

But that's all we care about. Haven't you understood that yet?

We are all a bunch of money-grubbing, heartless people who just went into piano teaching because of the Big Bucks. Part of the reason we are so rich is that we ask people to pay for time they have reserved.

Of course i understand that "your pianists" cannot constantly skipp lessons, however, summer is different. Average human goes on vacation for 2-6 weeks.

I'm wondering how many of you give a studio policy to your students' parents and ask them to read and sign it?
I have thought about doing this. If they agree to your policy, they then agree to pay you for such missed lessons and etc., right? Especially if they sign it?
If people cannot accept our policies for whatever reason, we respect that and don't take them as students. Simple as that.
Just because we are teaching an art does not mean the act of teaching is not a business.

So, pick a teacher who will allow you to take your 2-6 week vacation, exactly as you want it. That's between you and your teacher.

I think MrsCamels is reasonable. You don't.

As I understand it she scheduled lessons for a family based on their saying that they would be attending lessons for June. As I understand it they cancelled for the rest of the month, by email.

This is not about your money.

It is about MrsCamels losing money. I absolutely don't understand why people who have NO idea what it is to teach and face the problems we face, financially, consistently assume that those of us who DO teach are out to clobber people unfairly.

But I'll let MrsCamels take it from here. Perhaps she is so rich from all the money she is making teaching piano that she hardly knows where to put it all.

I rather doubt it. I'd wager the truth is closer to struggling to keep her head above the water, like the rest of us.

Don't assume for one moment that any of the parents who sign a policy read it, no matter how much you ask them to, no matter how clearly you express your policy.

Some parents are very reasonable and pay attention. Some do not pay attention but are reasonable when things are pointed out to them. Some will fight over every cent and will attempt to wear us down unless we set limits and absolutely refuse to give in.

I have parents who skip lessons and do not even give me the courtesy of a call, then expect a make-up. They don't get it. But they will still try to push me until I hold the line.

I'm pretty sure that almost, if not all the teachers who make their living teaching private lessons face similar problems.

+1
(I'm assuming that +1 means "I agree" )

I hand my students a lengthy policy upon signing up for lessons. It is very strict and "business like".

I am also a music school teacher so I know the best way to enter a classroom is very strict...I can always get friendly LATER.

This technique has also performed well with my business. There are times when I do forgive a lesson. And my clients are very grateful. Sometimes I even add some extra time to a lesson for free. But for me it really depends on the client. I am usually able to screen out flaky students in the beginning. (Knock on wood...)

I guess my goal is to have a fulfilling job as well as dependable income. I have gone the my "way or the highway route" with my policy but for my personality it works better this way. I have routed my business to suit me as well as my students.

I offer them flexibility and travel to their homes but they are also flexible with me changing my schedule and running late as well. I strive for a healthy, personal business relationship. A job that is tailored for me and them...

Things have changed a little since I started teaching in a little music shop studio for $5 per lesson!

Question: could you survive on the salary you make as a school teacher?

I think there is a difference, regardless, between teaching piano, no matter how many lessons a week, when there is a "steady job" for back-up and depending ONLY on the money made from teaching. I keep thinking of the saying, "Don't quite your day job."

But I agree with your strict first, easy later point. I think bending the rules is something that needs to be earned, which I think you are also expressing here:

I do much the same. The moment I sense people trying to jerk me around, I go right to the rules and do not give an inch. It has been much harder this year because of the economy. In the past I could literally boot people out if they caused problems and replace them immediately with more cooperative people on my waiting list. No waiting list this year, the first year EVER that I have no had one.

Wise path…

Well, I can't remember ever teaching a lesson for that little. Perhaps so when I just started, but that was about 1968, and I was just getting started!

I started teaching piano when I was 15..I'm 35 now. I was so happy to be making $10 an hour in 1989 when minimum wage was about $4.25....The music shop charged 8 per lesson...they gave me 5 and kept 3. $24/month for lessons....and if the student didn't show I didn't get paid and I was happy as a clam either way! My how things have changed!

My "school job" is not what you think. I work as an independent contractor doing general school music one day a week at an elementary school...every June they are iffy if my contract will get renewed. But somehow the PTA gets the money together for another year of music rotations. Piano lessons are my main gravy...and the CA budget is in shambles so I feel very lucky to have my own business.

Even with my experience I still struggle at times with communicating, money issues and annoying students...but I enjoy the variety and challenges...

My husband is also a musician...I guess all of our "unsteady jobs" added together make up one steady job somehow?

In 1972 in small town Iowa, I handed my piano teacher a five dollar bill every week for a one-half hour lesson. She was a retired college piano professor who attended the Paris Conservatory as a student. My grandparents started paying for lessons so I could afford to take a one hour lesson at $10. I guess my old teacher was doing O.K. for those days...?

I would have responded earlier, but I was stuffing money under my mattress cover. Love the way it fills up. Three feet of bills makes a great pillowtop...

On another note, just wanted to clarify that I do allow 2 weeks cancellation over the summer with notice. I gave everyone paper work to give me the dates in advance, or if they didn't have them yet, to give me generalities.
I'd be annoyed if I couldn't get some Bohemian braids on my vacation because I was paying my kids teacher for a lesson we didn't take, so I'm happy to make concessions. However, I do need notice so I can plan my budget.

I wanted feedback in this case since it was unusual. Since most agree that it should still be billed, I'm sticking to my guns. I think this family has other travel plans for later in the summer. If they let me know soon enough I might make a concession for that.

Teachers here do not teach over the summer, except some students that want to. Teachers make special schledule for the summer.

Maybe i think this is the best way because i'm used to it, but i wouldn't pay for a lesson I have not attended during the summer.

I hope you are prepared to be "let go".
I really don't understand how students can be so oblivious to the reasoning behind getting paid every week. Do you think our bills change in the summer?

You apparently feel your time is much more valuable than ours is.

If you have found a teacher that lets you choose your lessons then, that's great. But if you have a teacher that has attendance policies in place, I would really hope you would respect that!

Barb, that's around $100 or more taking inflation into account. I'd say you were most fortunate to find her.

E&I,

I suspect GreenRain's remark originates in a failure to consider the timetable according to which piano lessons are contracted. I also until recently was under the misconception that lessons were something I contracted for at most a month ahead of time, so that if I wished not to have lessons for a month, I merely did not pay for them and did not show up. Paying for lessons one does not take seems counterintuitive unless one realizes that the piano teacher is hired and fulfills his/her responsibilities to his/her students in an ongoing way, that discontinuing and resuming lessons amounts to an iterative firing and rehiring that offends against the primary contract between student and teacher. Agreeing to take lessons, I now understand, means not continually terminating that agreement and expecting the services of a teacher to be provided at the student's discretion. Maybe contributing to misunderstanding here is the method of payment, weekly or monthly as the case may be. It can seem as though one only pays for those lessons one takes, instead of the reality of the situation, which is that students and teachers form a contract that is binding on both. If a teacher were to provide and discontinue services based on apparent whim, nobody would hire that teacher. Why would a teacher want to teach a student who is always cancelling and taking his/her remuneration away? I don't think the issue is the money, though the money is important, as it always is.

I think it depends whether you're teaching privately or through a school.

Music schools have their rules and it's understandable, but for private piano teachers, I think that as long as the student gives sufficient notice (24 hours is fine I think) they should get to make it up whenever they want and not have to pay for the lesson if they don't want to make it up.

The piano teacher's financial problems haven nothing to do with the student.

I don't mean to step on anybody's foot here, this is just my two cents.

I must be way below average!

Why do you feel this is different? Because we run our business from our own home or studio? We are still expected to be there on time, be prepared. Make other arrangements for things (UPS guy isn't going to get an answer, kids aren't going to get rides, phone isn't going to get answered), the same as if we were at a job away from home. Sometimes it's even more challenging: having to wait until you leave because a parent hasn't come back, trying to figure out which student is writing on the furniture (there was a thread where someone had to find out who was taking the batteries out of the remote!!), telling a parent that their child is peeing all over your bathroom floor....Things you wouldn't do in a school. These are just a few reasons why we also have to have policies in place.

You said that they student should "be able to make it up whenever they want". Seriously? Really, do you think teachers want students showing up during their family time, their dinner time? This misconception is why it is SO difficult for *some* people to respect our boundaries. This is a job, like any other. We just happen to do it from home. We are NOT available every moment, nor should we be expected to be.



If a teacher has 5 students at 27$ per lesson on a given day, and 3 of them decide that (since she's not working from a school) they don't want to come because it's going to be nice out tomorrow, she will still lose $81 of income. If that happens often enough, then yes, the teacher's financial problems can have everything to do with the students.

That must mean "mental vacation". You know, shut off. Nothing going on in there lol.

So if your child is absent from school, you should get your tax money back? Or the tuition you paid to the private school?

My studio is my business. I have two degrees and have almost 30 years experience. I don't teach lessons for a little pin money. This is how I make my living. I deserve a living wage, to be able to save for retirement, just like anyone else. I pay taxes on my income. If you choose not to come to your lesson, I shouldn't be penalized.

Wow, you are really pissed off lol.
Not paying for unattended lessons doesnt't have anything to do with time value.
Yes, i have found a teacher that does not request me to pay her for not teaching me. And she doesn't own 5 mansions...





While i could understand that one has to pay missed lessons during the year (although i beleive that at least a few lessons should be rescheduled), i would not pay her/him for 3 lessons i have not attented during the summer (I am going away for 18 days this summer).

This example has nothing to do with piano lessons.

Everyone has to pay taxes. Even if you have no child, you are still supportning schools with taxes. If one does not like that, he should go to Monako.

Beside that, at least in my country, there is rarely less than 20 persons in one class. If one student is accent, the teacher still has to teach. If students cancell the piano lesson, the teacher can't teach.

Music teachers ... especially private piano teachers are notoriously underpaid for their services. Where else will you find someone with at least one degree (usually advanced) to teach for $40-$60 an hour?

Especially now as we near 2010? Wake up people! Teachers deserve better. And if one of my students missed a lesson, he/she would have to pay or get the boot!

This is so very true. My first lesson with new students is a detailed conversation about my policies for payment, missed lessons, practice, etc. Like another teacher mentioned, I've gotten pretty good at reading who will be committed students/parents, and who wont. By actually having a very detailed conversation, and not just expecting them to read the document, (I do get a sigend policy document, too) I always have the conversation to refer back to when there is a misunderstanding.

Like other teachers here, I tend to be more flexible with excellent, committed students and parents. They are respectful of my time and preparation by being on time, paying on time, and preparing for lessons. If an unexpected glitch happens in their lives, a lesson conflict or a plea for a last-minute summer day trip, my answer is usually yes. This give-and-take is understood when something happens in my life, too.

The idea that summer should be absolutely flexible, that it's somehow different than other times of the year, is ridiculous. If the teacher teaches during the summer (I realize some don't), part of the responsibility of the student is to communicate clearly about travel and lessons that will be missed. If you have a lesson scheduled, and you miss it without adequate notice per your teacher's policy, you should expect to pay for that lesson. The teacher has reserved the time, prepared, and cannot fill that slot without adequate notice.

I know many others have already said many of the same things, I just had to agree. By being clear and verbal about my policies, I've been able to avoid much confrontation that plagued me in my first few years of teaching.

Best,

Kim

If you replace "teach" with "work", I'll give you translation and interpretation. I have had to accept $25/hour, no traveling expenses or parking fee deductions, to interpret at a tribunal hearing and that was after bargaining up from the offered $15. $40 to $60 an hour seems like a fantastic rate from over here. We're fighting a similar battle in our corner. At least one of our number has gone back to her first degree and is doing something more lucrative ... teaching music privately.

For the summer, I have students pay for the entire summer upfront. They are required to have 6 weeks/6 lessons over the entire summer. They can schedule whatever time works best for both of us, and if they cancel ahead of time, I can make it up. However, if they don't show up, they don't get rescheduled. My policy is very clear on this, because I would go out of my way to schedule lessons that worked in student's schedules, and get stood up.

Making up one or two lessons isn't that big a deal, but when you have over 30 students and if even half of them need a make up for one reason or another, this is a scheduling nightmare that inevitably cuts into time that I would be spending in preparing for lessons, practicing, paying the bills, and being with my husband.

Think of it this way: You are scheduled to work a full day, and the boss tells you that you won't be paid for an hour even though you're there. He then tells you that you'll have to make up that hour at another time this week without pay. Doesn't make sense, does it?

I remember many times when I was a salaried employee, the boss asked me to work late or on week ends. There would be no extra pay for the extra time.

But it works both ways. If I had to take a sick day I got paid anyway.

But it doesn't work both ways for most piano teachers. If we are sick and miss a day we DO NOT get paid for it.

Well, in 1989 I was 41 and had nearly 20 years experience. If students missed lessons and did not at least make them up, I dropped them from my schedule, so I think this is a lot more to do with experience.

Right. CA is a mess, though Florida is not in much better shape, and our health care costs (insurance) are insane. My wife and I pay about $15 000 a year just for premiums, and with a very high deductable, we pay all our usual doctor bills and for all prescriptions out of pocket.

It is insurance and medical bills that is destroying our finances.

How is this in CA?

That's the story of my life.

I am a student, and I understand about your buisness... I find that some students ask for too many concession but having a break for the summer is quite understanding when you have taken lesson all years around. Every school (university, college) has elective classes during the summer...I think it should be the same for the music school...

In my view the important point is not whether students will take or not take lessons during the summer.

It's whether or no a student who does "elect" to take lessons during the summer will then feel free to cancel them without a good reason, or simply skip them, without calling, with an excuse such as: "Well, it's summer we were busy. We just forgot. Can we make it up?"

That's a little different than my scenario, though isn't it? You were guaranteed wages, and salaried employees are expected to work at least 40 hours, and more if necessary. The OP is talking about a student who hasn't yet paid her for the time when she was supposed to teach, and also asking to be rescheduled to said unpaid time. We don't get sick days or any other benefits.

I'm not complaining, that is the nature of the business and if I didn't like it, I'd go make a lot more money doing something else. So you take the good with the bad. However, it is smart business practice to minimize the bad by having a policy to account for such circumstances. As a business owner, we can decide how to run our business, and if someone does not agree with the terms, they can go elsewhere. I have my students and parents sign the policy stating they have read it so that there are no misunderstandings right from the start. If they sign it, I assume they deem it fair and reasonable.

I aggree that if you "choose" to take summer lessons, you should pay for them and be present .... But somme school are very strict even in the summer for yeararound students. I changed school for that reason...

No sick pay, no vacation pay. No 401K, no matching 401K. Worst of all, no health insurance plan that is not obscenely expensive, with high deductables.

I smile when I tell people that retirement for me will be death. I'm not smiling inside. It's 100% true.

As we can see from some entries in this thread, there are always students who think we should be on call, 24/7, to make up lessons they miss, often with no notice, at their convenience. They are incapable of grasping that lost time is lost money. I suspect they also never understand why really good teachers don't want them as students.

I'm not sure what you mean by "schools". Most of the teachers who have been attempting to explain what they do—and why—are working for themselves.

No, just obviously frustrated with your weird logic.

What is "time value"? There are have been many people who have given very reasonable explanations of what happens when lessons are skipped and then teachers are expected to "absorb the losses". You seem to be the only person who is incapable of understanding why teachers have such difficulty earning a reasonable living wage.

Who does own 5 mansions? Aren't you the person who has such terrible physical damage from the last teacher that you have been forced to take a break? I find it astonishing that you can't see why your attitude towards teachers, in general, will alienate the very teachers who would most likely be able to help you get OVER the damage you got from poor teaching.

If you refuse to honor the policy of a good teacher, you won't be paying for any lessons because that teacher will refuse to work with you. With the arrogant attitude you keep presenting here, your chance of getting a good teacher is nearly zero, and keeping such a teacher IS zero.

It seems that people think that lessons involve only the time the student is in the room. Not true. I spend time planning lessons, shopping for new materials, doing bookkeeping, practicing and studying to maintain my skills, attending professional meetings, serving on committees for the MTA whose programs my students participate in, etc.

Those things still have to happen even if the student doesn't show.

All that is true, but the number one thing that people don't get is that we only have a limited amount of time that CAN be scheduled. They think that because we work for ourselves, we can schedule lessons whenever we want.

They also don't have any idea that teaching a lesson, then having nothing to do while a student does not show up, is not "free time".

On days when I have a schedule from 3 PM to 8 PM, I have students who want to know why it is inconvenient for me to schedule a single lesson, for one student, at 10 in the morning.

I won't do it, but I have to explain why.

People also seem to think that making up time is just a matter of swapping lessons. No big deal. But many if not most people insist that they can only come at specific times on specific days.

Now, if a good, respectful student calls in a the last moment, even same day, and it is an emergency, I have no problem with rescheduling, because such a student will be glad to come in during a time I have free. And the good students appreciate the fact that I have done them a favor.

It's the students who are rude and who expect special treatment from me who get NOTHING free. NOTHING. Not one extra minute of lessons, no exceptions, and so on. They never realize that it is their attitudes that have gotten my back up.

These are the people I refer to as "The Only People in the Word Who Count", and they consistently act as though the whole world should bow to their needs, their schedules, their whims.

This input is invaluable as I know as lots of you have many more years of experience than me. I appreciate you all sharing your wisdom regarding the craft of piano teaching. Checking into these forums is part of my daily routine.

Gary D., since it's obvious that we have different views and that we won't agree, i will stay out of this thread, because i see no point in further posting. The debate would just go in the circles.

Is it possible that you have different views because you're coming at it as a student and not as a teacher?

You said earlier that I "was really pissed off".
It is frustrating when people don't listen to the vast majority of folks. I'm not saying one way is right or one is wrong, but when you're in the minority, maybe you should take a step back and see if there is something that makes sense out of what people are saying.

I understand what you are saying GR. But you seem to have taken a stance that the teachers are just out to rob the students. That is not the case, we are simply trying to make a buck like everyone else. You said that time value has nothing to do with attended lessons. I really fail to see how you came to that conclusion. Lets say you are a soloist at a function. You spend hours and hours researching and practicing, but then the function gets canceled. They don't pay you. Fair?

By the way, who DOES own 5 mansions? Or even 1?? Probably not anyone teaching any sort of lessons, attended or not!

Actually, if you were to continue as you have been, your points would continue to be shot down as illogical and unreasonable.

Ditto.

piqué,

You might remember that we get notifications. Writing a pointed criticism, leaving it up long enough for it to be read, then deleting is what I call "hit and run".

So I'm going to answer you, since frankly your post did make me very irritated. It was a distortion.

So obviously it is something that is of great concern to teachers.

But I would not presume to tell you or other writers how to run your business. Nor would I judge the fairness of said writers by reading about concerns raised about collecting money.

What is discussed is how not to go out of business due to non-payment, or how not to head to the edge of going out of business.

Being "defensive" is about what is written here. You have no idea how any of us work with our students, or how we express our policies or anything else with our students. I would say that you are at least equally defensive about how you pay for your own lessons.

What is good for the "relationship" is what allows us to continue teaching. Without policies, I would not be able to continue to teach. I'd have to find another job. If you think I, for one, am trying to "protect" myself from the people I teach, or that I see parents as "enemies", you are simply projecting your own assumptions as facts. Has it occurred to you that many of the teachers talking here actually care a whole lot about their students and work very hard? Has it occurred to you that most parents have no idea of how hard we work and what we face until we have a chance to explain? And that some parents, in my experience a minority, will take advantage of us unless we set the boundaries that you seem to object to?

Again, you are projecting your own personal experiences. If I were seen as hostile and defensive by my students, most of them would soon quit.

That's nice, but you have zero experience at running a studio. You are assuming that your problems are the same as ours. *I* would not assume that my problems are the same as *yours* just because your profession and mine may have things in common.

There is enough fiscal uncertainty *with* a written policy. I'm sure you are assuming that we are all money-grubbing people who went into teaching just to make money, and that none of us make any kind of exceptions for people who are having difficulties. I can't speak for the others here, but I have made extraordinary exceptions for certain students in the past and will continue to do so in the future. What I won't do is bend rules for students who have recently started with me and want to break every rule that I think is reasonable in my policy.

It is also true that only a minority of parents and students try to take advantage. However, if they amount to 15% of my total students, that 15% can wreak havoc on making any kind of finanical plans. I spend almost all my time struggling with this minority, who are not only irregular about showing up for lessons (as well as TRYING to be irregular about PAYING for them), but also are the ones who most frequently have every excuse you can imagine for not practicing. I've said it before: 90% of my energy is taken up with dealing with a few people who cause all the problems. Most of my students and parents are remarkably cooperative, and I am extremely cooperative with those people. I'd wager this is pretty normal for teachers of the sort you see posting here.

By the way, did you ever wonder WHY we spend so much time writing here? Most of my posts are not about policies or about collecting money. I have spent HOURS and HOURS trying to help people with all sorts of problems.

How much time do YOU give to other people, for free, as a writer? Maybe you give a lot. I don't know. But after all is said and done, you aren't a teacher. Every time we see something that is both negative and judgmental about what we do and how we try to get paid, *it is from students who do not teach*.

And just where do you jump to the conclusion that any of us are demanding more than what other reasonable people can reasonably give?

Oh please… Back to the "starving artist" scenario. As long as there have been people "focusing on the joy of their passions" there have been people who have been financially successful and others who have not been. I don't know how much money you make. I can tell you that if I had wanted to make a lot of money, I would NEVER have chosen this profession. I will repeat: I have bills to pay. If I can't pay them, I can no longer be a teacher. If I can't pay my bills from the money I make as a teacher—and after nearly four decades of being one—I will have to go into a different line of work, at age 60. I actually joke with my adult students that they most likely make more money in one year than I make in several. And I tell my teens that by NOT going into music but by choosing a "practical job" they will easily out-earn me. And I share with them that I went into this "business" because I wanted to give something of what I know to other people, not to make money.

Which doesn't change the fact that I have bills to pay.

So, based on this free relationship with a teacher who also has an "unpredictable life", you assume that this should be a model for the rest of us? And why in **** should I, for example, teach someone like you four lessons before getting paid? If you are a close friend, or someone I've taught for years, yes, I can see a "special relationship" like this. But to run a business this way?

It would be insane. I suppose in your idealistic world all people are honest. No one comes for lessons, then skips out, doesn't pay for any of the lessons. In the real world, people do cheat us. Not the majority. But enough to hurt, financially. I can't imagine why you don't get this.

So, you have a rigid teacher who had to take frequent breaks because he was burned out. That is your model? From this apparently negative experience you generalize to the conlusion that all of us discussing problems are just like this teacher? If he or she was a really good teacher, most likely you would still be taking lessons from this teacher.

More generalizing, more projection. You had a bad experience with a teacher and go from that to judging us all to be like that teacher. Nice.

Of COURSE summer is difficult. Of COURSE people take vacations. What makes you assume that the policies we have for summer lessons don't take that into consideration? There has not been "one policy" spoken of in this thread or any other. We have talked about general guidelines, and we have expressed irritation about parents who will be quick to cancel lessons for the entire summer but who will, later, judge as "not the best teachers" because their children, who also usually do not practice much during the rest of the year, are not "learning enough".

The bottom line: you THINK you can appreciate all the problems we face, just from having been a student. I would never assume, NEVER, that I have even a small knowledge of what you, as a writer, face. That would be monstrously arrogant, wouldn't it? Even if I took writing courses?

What makes you think we don't do the same thing.

It doesn't seem so at all.

I don't give a damn how hostile you assume I am, or how unfriendly you assume I am, or how you think I am "making music look to students", because you are not my student. None of the people reading this forum are students of mine. Furthermore, *if* a student of mine read this forum, the only student I would offend would be one who does not show up for lessons, does not practice, argues about paying for lessons, is late for lessons, is argumentative, etc. Now, if such a student read what I say here and quit because of it, I would just laugh. The rest of my students would realize immediately that I am not TALKING about them, because most of my students respect me and what I do. And they realize that I have bills to pay and don't minimize the importance of that, *since they also have bills to pay*.

Something for *you* to think about…

Paying tuition in advance for a length of time is not new. My parents did it over 30 years ago when I started taking lessons at the Community School program of a local college. I don't know what the cancelation/sick/vaca policy was but whatever it was we followed it. My teacher was actually a nun who took several weeks a summer to visit her family back home. We weren't charged for that if I recall correctly.

I am currently an adult student. I pay per lesson at the time of the lesson but I worry about my teacher doing business this way, because she's a friend and a good teacher and I want to keep her in business.

I don't understand what the problem is. If I want to take lessons from a good teacher, I want him/her to stay in business, which requires a regular paycheck. I understand I am paying *tuition*, not 'piecemeal' per lesson...which I would Expect to be billed at a MUCH higher rate (2 to 3 times the 'tuition' rate) due to the risk involved. Expecting to pay the regular/tuition rate but with the perks of the 'piecemeal' rate seems to me to be unreasonable in the extreme.

I don't understand some people. One of my bosses just asked me if I would teach her daughter beginning lessons. (edited to explain...altho I did give a few lessons years ago I am an adult re-starter and in no way consider myself qualified to teach...my boss just knows I play piano and wanted me to teach her kid) And they want someone who will come to the house. I can't understand why people don't get that _good_ teachers have _options_ and by demanding this laundry list of 'exceptions' what you're going to end up with in the end is probably a not-so-good teacher.

Indeed it's not. I recently discovered the first invoice my parents had from my piano teacher when I started lessons with him in 1964. (ok, ok, I know I'm an extreme hoarder ) I read this: Fees were payable for the term (14 weeks), in advance, with a late fee applying. Lessons missed because of the teacher's commitments as an examiner would be made up. Lessons missed by the student for any reason would not be made up. Yet this was the teacher who when I was working towards a diploma exam gave me extra time and extra lessons at no cost to me, and who went out of his way to help me in all sorts of ways, too numerous to list.

There is a problem with how this has been presented. May I suggest something like the following:

There is a longterm relationship between a teacher and a student. Instrument teaching is effective if it happens on a regular basis over a period of years. A business relationship consists of two things: providing a service, and payment for that service. The service will be poor if lessons are not regular and ongoing. Meanwhile the teacher is being retained and is not free to give the student's spot to someone else.

It is starting to make sense why some teachers suggested that we are not paying for the month's lessons. Instead we are paying for a year's service in monthly installments. If you are paying for 45 lessons a year in equal installments, and you only have one lesson in July, paying the July installment still makes sense, if at the end you have 45. Cancelled lessons is a separate issue.

The mischief is caused when it is presented in terms of the service provider's needs. It is unreasonable to expect a client to pay for services he is not receiving or to be given services he does not need, simply because the service provider has bills to pay. But I think the problem lies in how it has been presented, and not in the realities.

In terms of the question at hand: We paid the beginning of every month, no invoices were sent off, no contracts were written, no regulations were laid down. As far as I know, everybody just paid. It's just the way it was. The norm where I studied was prepaid monthly lessons year round, 52 weeks/year, an hour long except for the little kids. That included the adults.

Well said Gary. Thank you for taking the considerable amount of time that must have taken, I for one appreciate it.

I see that post is gone now, but I sure didn't like the part where the poster claimed that we are "treating the parents and students as enemies" and how we "are hostile and unfriendly".

WOW quite an assumption from someone I've (and probably all of us here) never even met!!

Seriously, I really don't think I'd have too many students if I were all those things.

Thanks for the rant, Gary....it saved me the effort!

I got a call this afternoon from problem mom. Why did junior only have one lesson in June, even thought she paid a whole month's tuition? For the umpteenth time in five years, I reiterated that she was paying her annual tuition in monthly payments, that junior attended each and every lesson he was entitled to, that she was late with her payment, again, and of course, it seemed like she was only paying for one lesson, but that's not the case. Junior's lesson is the last of the day, so I frequently run over, often 15 min or more. No thank you yet after five years.

This family is one of a couple who have not registered for the Fall; I removed their name from the mailing list. No reminders, no cajoling. If the studio is full come the end of August, Es tut mir leid!

Best be very careful here

At the moment, I'm highly torqued with certain parents. I've provided 100% of what I've agreed to, and then another 10% to 20% on top of this, and yet, I am obviously a money grubbing individual. Why I or anyone continues to teach mystifies me (at times).

Hold on a second. Who has been suggesting that this is fair? I have not.

Where are you getting this from? What did I miss?

If a person calls at the last moment, or doesn't call at all, that person does not "receive services". And I assure you this happens because people simply forget to come.

And where is the part about "giving services not needed" coming from?

Do you mean to give support to the people who claim that this is what we are doing, or talking about?

It is actually very logical. Just not to some piano teacher on here.

The "system" in my country is completely different, there are no teachers who request paying unattended lessons.

It's not that illogical at all...

As i said, that is just my opinion. You have to right to yours.

When you contract for services, you are obligated to pay for those services, whether or not you choose to use them. You have made a contract.

Ebony, most folks on here are teachers, so it's nothing weird to have simmilar opinion. What i am saying the fifth time now is, that that is how I think. We could ask this question on non piano forum, i would be interested in opinions.

Ps: Mentioning of those five mansions was obviously overreacting.

None? So professors at the universities get paid based only on how many students show up at lectures???

No, but if the student is accent, they reschedule lesson.

OK, here goes.....

Please read pique's comments again:



She never says that anyone is "treating the parents and students as enemies" nor does she say that anyone is being "hostile and unfriendly". Instead she makes observations on the general feeling she is getting from various threads and comments in this subforum. To be honest, I can see where she is coming from and would agree that it is easy to see how someone could get a generally not too positive vibe based no comments made. Now, believe it or not, I'm not trying to (re)start a flame war. This is simply my observation that matches someone else's observation. If you don't agree with our observations and the impressions we are getting from them, then that's fine. I would hope though that folks here would understand that we aren't here to put teachers down or to criticize them. But if there are some folks who are gaining this impression, there are probably others, and as pique mentions, I think that it would be rather unfortunate if it created a generally negative impression of teachers.

Back on topic. I think Gary stated it best when he mentions that really there is no magic formulae that will work for every teacher and every student. I've worked with teachers who had a very strict payment schedule (i.e. more "business like") and those who were very loosey goosey. Both styles have there advantages and disadvantages and inevitably you'll have students/parents who will prefer one or the other. I too don't understand how some folks can't grasp the concept of paying a fixed fee regardless of usage. We do it all the time, if you don't watch your tv all month you don't get a refund on your cable bill, if your kids go to private school, you don't get money back if they miss days. Not that those examples are meant to somehow be the same, but just the fact that the concept isn't anything unusual for most people.

You must live in some parallel universe

Have you heard for differences in cultures?

You missed the opening statement introducing the purpose of my ramble.

I stated the suspicion that friction might have lain in some things that were presented (not by you - in the thread), and then I gave an alternate presentation.

In the middle I highlighted what impression some previous presentations might have given (I was thinking of several) which may have caused some of the backlash, and put those impressions to the light of day. This is the part you are responding to, Gary, but it is not the main point. Rather I think that this may be the area that caused friction because of the way it could have been seen.

If there is to be a response, I had rather hoped it would be to this, which was a groping for the main idea, rather than the part that I was not representing:

Warm or cold?

Huh? No, they don't. If a college student fails to show up for his English 101 class, they don't get an 'extra' lecture. Good golly, what college does that?

And as I remember from my college music days.... when I failed to show up for my scheduled piano lesson, TOO BAD. There was no rescheduling of my lesson.

I charge an annual tuition. In my policy, I state that what the tuition covers (up to X amount of lessons, used or not; books; my preparation time, etc . . .).

Parents know that when they enroll their children. I also give them a form that allows them to choose their payment plan. This, I think, makes it clear that the tuition is for the year. They can pay in full, by semester, or in monthly installments (that's exactly what I call them).

They get it. I think it has to do with both terminology (I call it tuition and don't make it evenly divisible by an hourly rate and I offer payment plans) and how I communicate it.

I also include a clause that gives me a sick day without having to make it up and I give them a calendar that shows when I am not available.

Are you telling me that if you don't turn up to a university lecture the lecturer will schedule another one just for you? I didn't suspect France was that different to the rest of the world!

I have. Love croissants.



Thought this thread needed a laugh! That one reply by Gary D. was almost a short story!

First of all, you first picked the end of a longer sentence:

Then skipped many paragraphs to:

Leaving out such paragraphs, in between, as:

You don't know me. I don't know you. But let me repeat: I don't care, even a little bit, if people assume I am all about money or stick to an unreasonable, inflexible policy. I care about whether or not my STUDENTS see me this way.

If I tell you that the vast majority think that I am not only fair but also totally devoted to my teaching, I can't prove that, can I? For all you know, most of my students don't like me. Most of them think I charge too much and make unreasonable demands.

No matter how many facts I provide you with, including my fees, number of students, and how many times I bend my own rules for people who have been cooperative and loyal to me, I can't prove any of this.

There is another side to this, and it does not get talked about. Frankly, I am often so generous, I often wonder if I don't shoot myself in the foot.

Students don't experience the other side. They know how they feel, what they have experienced, but they can't possibly know many of the things that every dedicated private teacher has gone through. They can't know all the times we have trust people and have been stiffed.

John mentioned giving extra time then having to re-explain a policy to a parent who pays late, argues with things agreed to, and NEVER has thanked him for extra time.

I made the mistake of allowing a boy to come to a lesson early, 15 minutes early, each week, because he was the first, and I did not have a student before him. What happened? On THREE occasions the mother did not show up at all. No call, even though I had explained that it make a huge difference for scheduling to know when people are not going to be present. I practically begged her to PLEASE let me know a day in advance if they could not make, BECAUSE I was coming in early.

Now, where does that leave me here? If I suggest that this mother was extremely rude, someone will tell me I was stupid to let this even get started, the extra time. And frankly I feel that way.

Someone else will tell me that I gave something, freely, and that I have no right to complain. I actually got that from a FRIEND, but one who knows nothing about teaching.

You see, as lurkers people may see only the crankiness, the ranting, the anger. They don't see what is behind it, that there are reasons why we get angry. And that's why I don't care what you or other students think, in this one matter. Only what other teachers think.

If it is a matter of your sharing your experiences, as a student, about what and how we teach, then I usually listen. But I simply don't care what you think about how I collect money, how I run my business. My response to you is not about you, or anyone else who might think I am angry, unreasonable, and so on. It is to allow other teachers who know what I'm talking about to gain the courage to fight back a bit. Or at least voice their own view about what it feels like not to get paid, not to be respected, to be taken for granted. I am saying plainly and clearly that in my view we don't get paid or respected unless we actively stand up for ourselves, unless we repeat that we are NOT unfair or nasty, as is so often suggested we are, in this forum.

What in the name of anything is the difference? You are playing with semantics here. You are splitting hairs. Both the quotes you showed were most definitely inferred, in my opinion, and nailed down with the assertion that it is perfectly reasonable to take four lessons and not pay for any of them until they have been taken. The assertion is that an "unusual situation" between two parties, a writer and a teacher, can somehow be a model for the rest of us should do business. The assertion is that because on individual has a unpredictable schedule, that it should be more or less the norm for such a relationship to be standard for teaching, in general.

Furthermore, we don't know if she is paying EXTRA for such a relationship. If someone wants to pay me way more than my usual fees for the privilege of taking lesson at odd times or in a way that is non-standard, I might well say yes. However, that takes a degree of trust, on both sides. Furthermore, if my own schedule were highly irregular, the way I charge for lessons would have to be too.

But note that all the negative comments are coming from non-teachers. Note also that you are supporting someone else who should be perfectly capable of defending her own position, but has not. Instead, she chose to do what I call a "hit and run". Post, delete post AFTER it has been seen by a number of people, then remain silent. I don't agree with your points, but I respect the fact that you are standing behind them.

Actually, I don't understand anything of the kind. That's the problem. Either we are fair, or we aren't. You and a couple others continue to hammer away at the point that we are not fair. As long as you do that, I will be right back here to counter your points. Let's call a spade a spade. Either you are criticizing, or you are not. If you are not, why continually asert that somehow there is a magic way that we can talk about the problems we face, as teachers, without being carved up for communicating with each other in a forum called "Piano Teachers Forum"?

As far as I'm concerned you want it both ways. Those of you who are not teachers expect to be free to say anything you want here, A RIGHT I HAVE ALWAYS STOOD UP FOR, but you see no need for listening carefully to what is BEHIND what we are talking about. You guys are quick to ask questions, feel it's your right to ask any and every question we are asked by paying customers, observe that most of us bend over backwards to help, then you judge us as mean-spirited and nasty.

And then can't understand WHY we get angry.

Why are you so worried about this "negative impression"? What makes you so sure that it is shared by most people? Do you have any idea how many private PMs I and others answer that are purely about questions asking for help? How many threads have you read in which members have quite obviously given a great deal of their time, for absolutely no money?

I don't believe you and a few others are a bit concerned about how we are perceived, or frankly whether or not we can continue to survive, as teachers. If I go broke, if I can no longer make a living as a teacher, it won't be because of a "negative impression" coming from this thread or this forum. It will come from not being able to earn a living, and a policy that protects us from people who are takers, and takers only, is what we are talking about.

Finally, although I fear you will fail to read this: MOST students and their parents are suprisingly fair and supportive. It is a small MINORITY that argues with us about everything, and other teachers will immediately realize that the same people who most unreasonable about paying are most often the least serious about doing any work.

Now, if other teachers disagree with anything I've said, I'll listen, and carefully. But I cannot and will not take criticism, in a forum, from a few students, of what we do for a living, or how we try to remain above water financially.

With all due respect, aren't you assuming that good luck is the same as a really clear policy? After all, John just talked about a problem with a family hasn't "got it" after several years.

My view is that you may be an excellent business person, and it may indeed be that trait that allows you to avoid any problems.

Having said that, EVERY other teacher I've ever talked about this has reported at least *some* problems coming from parents who obviously understand exactly what was explained and agreed to it. <scratching head>

Hi Gary -

I read your response...

First, let me say. You (and the other teachers) - are absolutely, 100%, right -

- it's ridiculous and obnoxious that people don't show up, and don't bother to let you know. (This honestly just floors me that people behave this way. I believe you that it happens, but I can't imagine how anyone thinks this is ok.)

- there's no way those of us who don't teach can really understand all the nuances of your business, because we don't experience it

- Yes, you guys are tremendously generous here on the forums, sharing your expertise and knowledge (and sometimes answering the same questions ad nauseum). THANK YOU!

- And, yes, I believe that the majority of piano teachers who post here are likely awesome teachers (there are in fact several that, if I lived in their region, would ask to take lessons with immediately!). You all obviously care enough to discuss teaching issues with your colleagues here, and when I read about them, I get a sense of how much work and thought you put into making sure your students learn the correct information, efficiently, enjoy their studies, and don't injure themselves.


When people say that sometimes they receive a negative impression from teachers here... I have to admit, I have felt the same way. It sounds like you are saying it's just semantics, and these people are directly criticizing the teachers.

This isn't my thinking (or intent!) at all.

For me - when I have that thought - it's more along the lines of - "wow. Here are these fabulous people who give so much of themselves, they clearly care about their students and want to help people learn. It's really unfortunate that this particular thread hides that fact and makes them (WRONGLY) appear to be <insert negative perception>"

I think the reason people post (and why I was tempted to say the same thing) is because - THEY KNOW THAT PERCEPTION IS INCORRECT, and it's painful to see people that you like and respect doing something that gives a FALSE negative impression of them.

And, if you actually like them, it can be tempting to point out the impression that they're creating, just in case they're not aware of it.

I believe it does matter, but I also agree with you - it's not really my business - I'm not affected by it.

I think it matters because this is a huge forum, with many readers and I'm sure many lurkers. Like it or not, people reading here may be forming ideas about teachers based on some of these threads. There's no way to know how many people look at these threads and think, "wow - those piano teachers are really nuts. I'm definitely going to go the self-teaching route".

Or how many people, about to take lessons, go to their first teacher with a chip on their shoulder because they expect a hostile teacher.

I don't know, as I said - I understand and agree, there's no way I can know what your job is actually like, since I don't do anything similar. And, I agree - it can be useful to have a place to vent, rant, and commiserate with your colleagues.

It's just that... in a public place... (which since anyone can read here, even without a membership...) sometimes you risk alienating potential clients.

(I've said it before too - but perhaps somebody needs to start a locked professional forum. I hate the idea of not being able to read the teacher threads, because I find alot of good information and fascinating discussions, but... for your (plural!) sake - it might be a good place to have discussions like these, without having to worry about public perception or defend yourself from "outsiders")

At any rate, I hope this didn't sound argumentative, as it wasn't intended to be.

As for all the other stuff going on... here are my own opinions:

- It's been pointed out, but I think we all need to remember that forums can be very polarizing. In real life, things are often much more fluid than what we read, and teachers are likely dynamically interacting with students on an individual basis.

- I do think it's helpful to frame lessons as "tuition" and a "long term contract" rather than month to month or lesson to lesson. My own lessons are scheduled by term (spring, fall, and summer) and it's clear that I'm paying for the entire term, and need to give notice to cancel. I have to pay upfront for the term, no month-by-month breakdown of prices, which makes a difference in the perception.

Just some random thoughts. I do appreciate the information that teachers share here (again, thank you all!) - I've picked up some valuable insights, tips, and ideas... plus I feel like I understand your issues a little better (not perfectly, clearly) which helps me understand what things might be stressful for my own teacher... So thank you for sharing that.

You know, I want to say "love to you all" - but I'm feeling a little nervous I might get some smack down, somehow for it. Oh well... here goes... much love to you all Good night!

Aw gee, thanks, saerra . No smack downs from me .
I've always been one of the people here who welcome the input of non-teachers, as long as we are aware of who's who (especially when it might be a question of technique for example). I think mutual understanding of each other's situations can only be a good thing, and I don't really want a private forum. Having it public probably just means we all have to think before we press "submit". And those who aren't on their home turf need to remember that they're not, as I try to do when I'm lurking (and occasionally posting) on the AB forum.

Saerra, that was fair. Neither of us get any awards for brevity.

I've always argued that this forum should stay open. I guess I don't want to be part of a generalization. For instance, I'm quite sure that any number of students have had some horrendous experiences with teachers. When students talk about problems with individual teachers, I listen and often feel anger that I will (no doubt) be disliked, automatically, for just belonging to the same profession!

I also think that this (teacher's) forum should be open to everyone. However I do wish that those who don't teach could give us some credit for our knowledge and experience and not make assumptions about us. Believe it or not most of us know what we are talking about when it comes to piano teaching and running a business as a private teacher. Most if not all of the opinions which appear to contradict what we are sying have been considered very carefully by us over the years. We understand the perspective of students and parents and do our best to work with them as well as ensuring that our business runs smoothly and effectively.

It's not hard to see why some readers would form a negative view from some of the threads here. Misunderstandings are very common and it's easy to twist someones words or interpret them how you like. Here is where I see a problem.....

A teacher posts a thread which tells about an experience they have had or a problem that they are dealing with. Sometimes they are just venting (rightly or wrongly) . Sometimes they are seeking the opinions of other teachers or just re-assurance that they are dealing with things in the right way. Then all of a sudden someone who doesn't teach will chime in with how unreasonable we are being and how we have no respect and can't see their point of view. Not surprisingly this causes arguments as other teachers who DO understand wade in. It often escalates and and makes a mountain out of a mole hill.

This thread is about dealing with cancellations. Most of us have a policy in place to deal with this and it will be tested by our clients over and over. So much so that it usually needs to be refined over the years. You all know that the majority of us will charge for missed lessons and will use our discretion as far as make up lessons go. It's nothing new and nothing to get worked up about. When I started teaching I did not charge for missed lessons. But people treated me like dirt and would cancel whenever they felt like it for whatever reason. I lost thousands over the course of the year. Now I charge up front and absolutely do charge for cancellations. I have a policy which works for me and my students. Nobody has any problem with it.

The OP said:

Does that mean you assume people only take two weeks off per year, and you price your lessons accordingly? If so, I don't think that's fair.

Also, a lot of people are using the university model (if you're absent from class, does the professor schedule a make up?) That's kind of silly, and doesn't really apply to private piano lessons - or other one on one tutoring situations. However, my daughter takes lessons at a community conservatory. Holidays, vacations, missed lessons, recitals, etc. are priced into the tuition. If she misses a lesson last minute, that's my tough luck I pay for it - and no complaints from me. If I call a week ahead, and try to reschedule, that works fine.

I'm not commenting on anyone here, but I've interviewed teachers - for myself, and for my daughter - where studio policies, tuition, etc. was the main direction the teacher was steering the conversation. Big turnoff, and I said, "I don't think we're going to be a good fit. Thanks for your time." The teachers who give the impression that their interested in working with me - or my daughter - musically are the ones I generally opt for.

That's just another parent's and student's perspective.

Wow, it seems I missed the big explosion in this thread! I'm not sure I want to go back and read everything that was said, so sorry if I'm repeating points made by others.

Most of us teachers on this forum are in capitalist economies. That means that if we live by the sword, we will die by it too. If we are overly strict with our policies, demands, fees, etc. to the point that is is unreasonable, then business will go somewhere else.

Most of the teachers on here have policies where they get paid for no-shows or last-minute cancellations, and I think that is wise from my own experiences in the past. You will also note, however, that it is these same teachers that get *upset* and *hurt* by students who don't come to lessons. Why would that be? Because they're trying to make a buck off of some fool who agrees to an unreasonable policy? Just the opposite. It's because we want to teach. We *care* about these students and we want them to reap the benefits of music study so that they can have it for the rest of their lives.

We hear potential in each student and we get excited when that light bulb goes on and a student gets a concept they've been working on. We struggle to find ways of inspiring the student to love music and to practice so that they can love it too. We sit in the audience as the student plays their piece, trying to look calm on the outside while on the inside we hope they are able to make it through that tough spot we've been working on. That is what kept us from sleeping the night before. We strive to find the next "perfect" piece for them to work on, and in some cases, we had to practice it for a couple of weeks before assigning it. We are excited to share it with them at their next lesson, but the student didn't show up. We didn't even get a call this time. We begin to wonder if something bad happened, like a family emergency. Then a few days later, we get a call saying they just forgot. Or worse, we don't even get a call after the fact, and we're left to wonder if they'll be coming next week. We've been planning this lesson since they left the previous week, and they just "forgot". It happens to us all, we have those 'senior' moments, but it is quite draining emotionally when we invest so much in our students' musical development. We invest because we have to: to not do so would mean being less of a teacher and mentor. Once you stop caring, you stop being a teacher.

Morodiene, that deserves to be read twice. Thank you for sharing that side of it.

And I would bet that all the teachers here can relate to what Morodiene is saying. It's how we all feel, even if we don't always manage to express it properly on this forum.

Any policy is in place for the benefit of both teacher and student.

So the OP teaches and charges for 48 or 49 lessons a year. What an opportunity this is for the student. They need never go more than two weeks without a lesson.

But obviously some don't see it that way. They see it as money grabbing and feel that they should be allowed more time off lessons to go on holiday without having to pay the piano teacher.

I don't particularly see it an opportunity for the student. I see it as an unrealistic expectation that you're required to pay for regardless. The reality of life is that people take more than 2 weeks off per year - from work, school, lessons. To expect more, and price your lessons accordingly is unfair and unrealistic. You can be a very good student, or a very supportive parent but still want to take a break in the summer, for example.

Morodiene, VERY WELL SAID!!

Succinct and you hit some points that others have missed.
Why would we want the kids to come if we can sit back and read a good book instead? Because we WANT to teach them and CARE about their progress.

Saerra,
Thank you for reading that whole thing and seeing it from both sides. Thank you for understanding and posting your opinions in a non-judgmental way, and thank you for being supportive

There have been teachers that have wanted to disallow non-teachers from posting here. On one hand I can understand. This thread (and many, many others) would not get so derailed if it were all teachers.

That being said I don't want that becuase I believe we have much to learn from students and parents. MOST of them can have reasonable conversations and get their views out there without putting others down (like you did here, again very nicely done).

Gary, I did read your entire post. I think you missed my point, which was not to "defend" pique but to highlight a specific point that she mentioned that I happened to agree with (which is why I only selected the two snippets that were relevant to my point) which saerra, more eloquently than I, seems to at least partially agree with, and that is that the nature of many of the posts by teachers on this forum can leave negative impressions of those teachers specifically and teachers in general. You seem to want to generalize that point to somehow encompass the entirety of ones behavior,

i.e.
person A: "hey, your post makes you come across as mean spirited"
Person B: "who are you calling mean?"
Person A: "no, I'm not calling you mean, just pointing out that your post makes you sound that way"
Person B: "you don't know me, why are you attacking me?"

Now the above may be just semantics to you, but there are folks to whom there is a vast difference.

Look, never have I ever said anything negative about you. I've never called you greedy, non-caring, insensitive, etc, etc. But yet you seem to want to extrapolate comments about some of the content and spirit of posts to somehow take on a broader meaning and as sweeping generalizations as you as a person. I've hoped that you would pick up on the general point of my posts and understand that they are not attacks but it's obvious that I have not been successful.

So I've said my peace. I hope that you and others will eventually see and understand where I'm coming from.

We all have different rules about how many lessons our students are allowed to miss. I don't know these other teachers personally but I can still comfortably say, just by their other postings, that they would almost all (if not all) be willing to let a few students slide on that. If these are good students/families that have caused the teacher no grief I'll bet they would be allowed to miss more lessons than that.

The thing that a lot of responders don't seem to understand (and that's probably because we don't talk about it much) is that these policies are made by US. Which means we can change them any time we see fit.

I think it was Gary who said not too long ago, something to the effect that if they are rude, late, inconsiderate etc...they get nothing but the basics. They are still getting what they are paying for, just not one thing more.

If these are good families, like most are, then they would call us WELL in advance, and tell us they have a dilemma about an upcoming vacation. They want to be gone for 3 weeks. Speaking for myself and my business I would respond with "That's fine, thank you for the phone call, and I will carry a credit onto your next bill" even though that's not what is allowed in my "policy sheet". BECAUSE these are good students and I like to keep the good students. If they were mediocre or rude students than I would reiterate what is on the policy sheet ("I'm sorry, but I'll need to be paid for that 3rd week you're gone").

These policies are in place for the inconsiderate boobs, that feel our time doesn't matter, our efforts don't matter and the ones that don't take our work seriously.

I don't know the poster that has that policy, (the one about 2 weeks off a year), but #1, it must work for her, or she would be out of business, and #2, I'll bet she has wiggle room for the majority of her students. A response was made that it was "unfair". It is "unfair" of that poster to assume to know her business.

Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by making this assumption

In piano lessons like other things in life:

You get what you give!!!

You may think it's unfair and unrealistic, in which case YOU would never sign up for lessons with such a teacher. That's the beauty of it. When choosing a piano teacher, you interview them, learn about their teaching style and studio policy, and then decide if it's a right fit for YOU.

If you are routinely gone in the summer and don't like the idea of having 'year-round' lessons, but need a break for vacations and such, then you don't enroll for lessons with a teacher who has a year-round schedule. It's quite simple, isn't it?

As a previous poster stated, obviously the policy is working for them or they'd be out of business.

What the majority of teachers here are saying is that we interview students, give them our Studio Policy to read (and maybe even go over every item line by line), and have them sign it, confirming that they've AGREED to the policies outlined. Then we discover we have a small handfull of parents who choose to ignore or test our policies... although they initially agreed to them.

Phlebas, a couple of pages back I tried to put this into a business perspective and seen from a different angle - I posted it a second time by highlighting the main point since a side comment was taken as the main issue. I would be interested in whether you would view things different from that angle. I'm actually also curious whether teachers think what I wrote was on track or off the mark.

It does not matter how dedicated you are to your profession or your client: a freelancer has to take care of the financial side of it, and that's really hard. We are raised to feel that it is rude to ask for things and that some authority (parent, employer) will reward us if we do things well. I wrote my piece in the hope that if a different angle was taken it might help clear the muddle. If it's not helpful, at least it helped me.

I like to shop at Sam's. I have credit there, and so I would use that card instead of my Visa. I pay my bills online, and my bank electronically sent my payment to Sam's credit the day before it was due. I had done this transaction two weeks before the due date, but I never like to give people money before it's due . However, Sam's credit department did not accept the transaction until 3 days after my bank had given it to them, and so I got socked with a $40 late charge.

When I called customer service, they said that can take up to 5 days to "check" their electronic payments, and will not back date them to the day the payment was electronically sent. I thought this was unfair and told them so. They did take away the late fee for this one time, but they said that is how they do it, and in the future I'd have to pay the bill 5-7 days in advance of the due date. Since I'm not too pleased about that, I no longer use my Sam's credit. That is my choice to make.

So in the case of this poster whose policy only allows for 2 weeks off during the year, if a students needed to take one extra week off, sure they can ask the teacher to make an exception, like I asked the Sam's credit department. The teacher can be accommodating, but it might be a one-shot deal. The student and parents then have to decide, is this teacher worth it? Maybe because of these rules the students has progressed much further than they would have without it. Maybe the teacher does this for the expressed purpose of making sure students practice regularly and attend lessons regularly, for their own benefit. The parent may decide after this that there's another teacher who has a more lenient policy and would prefer that. Or maybe they think that their child really doesn't do well at sports or anything else, and so piano is something that they can call their "own," and so it is good to stick with it.

I understand all that. the concepts of interviewing teachers, agreeing to studio policies, and free will to choose the teacher I want to are not foreign to me.
My point is she seems to be starting from a position of overcharging.

Me too. I've been out of town on vacation. Incidentally, even though my daughter missed two flute lessons as a result, I paid her teacher for them... even though the teacher has no formal studio policy and has never asked to be paid for lessons that we miss (and of course we notify her in advance). I pay her entirely as a result of being educated in this forum about the realities of running a music studio, and for that I thank all of the teachers who so generously share their expertise and experiences here.

I'm a little baffled by the controversy generated by this thread, because to me it seems very very simple: Teachers have the right to set whatever studio policy they desire, and students have the right to choose teachers who have policies they find acceptable. It's as easy as that. Students who want more flexibility in scheduling and the privilege of not paying for lessons they don't attend should only take lessons from teachers who are willing to agree to those terms. Families that sign on to a studio but then violate the policies, or expect to be exempt from them, are deadbeats and should be dealt with firmly or dropped.

Teachers who don't communicate clear studio policies at the initiation of lessons are asking for major headaches. I personally favor the idea of having a written policy sheet that families are asked to sign before starting lessons.

She expects to WORK all this time, how is that over charging?

It's none of our business how much she charges. If she's overcharging, then it would be reflected in the fact that she'd have trouble finding students. Does she? If that's the case she would have to adjust either her tuition or policies to make herself more competitive.

I don't know what she expects. I'm not sure you do either. In her original post she said someone emailed her to cancel lessons until July. There was no indication of whether the cancellation was done last minute or not. If it was cancelled last minute, then it's a no brainer - they should pay. If not, then the parents are paying for lessons not received. Also, if that's the case, it would seem they are being overcharged.

The fact that the parents are flakey should not be an issue. In this instance, if they called or emailed in good time to cancel the lesson I don't think they should have to pay for it.

That's a little insincere. If it's no one's business how much people charge, then why is it such a prevalent topic of discussion in this forum?
Why is it that everyone has an opinion on whether she should charge, but when someone disagrees then suddenly it's no one's business.
I'm not addressing the issue of whether or not she can "stay in business," or get people to sign her studio policy (there are lots of people who overcharge, and stay in business). I'm talking about the fairness of it.

Ahh, but her ability to stay in business is directly related to how "fair" it is. If she is able to stay in business due simply to lack of supply (i.e. she is the only piano teacher in her area) then an accusation of taking advantage of the situation might be leveled. However, if she manages to stay in business given a relatively healthy amount of competition, then that would tend to indicate that the majority of her clientele find her pricing policies acceptable, thereby making them "fair".

Exactly how I would personally feel if a music teacher refused to grant a refund or credit if we were to miss a month of lessons with reasonable notice would depend directly on how much value I thought we were getting from the teacher. If they were a fantastic teacher with a miles long waiting list, then that's simply the price you pay. If I didn't find them particularly outstanding and there were other teachers that I thought would fit the bill, then I'd be more likely to balk.

Generally in life, fair is the place you go to buy cotton candy and ride the feris wheel, and the complexion of story book princesses.

Oh come on here. Honestly.

Do you really think she plans on billing and then not working? I don't think it's out of line to assume that she is expecting to work when she is offering the lessons.
Good grief.

Overcharging? What, you think she came up with this grand plan while sitting in a dark dungeon rubbing her hands in glee???

"Oh! I know! Almost all my students' families take 3 or 4 weeks of vacation a year...I will charge them for only 2!! Brilliant! I get to make more money for less work!"

Good grief indeed. Overcharging is when you tell people they're paying for a whole year and then You take off for 6 weeks.

I think a lot of posts that cause offense on this forum are simply a result of miscommunication but when a teacher says "I expect that people will take X time off at Christmas and X time off over the summer, and set my rates accordingly"...to say they are 'overcharging' (unless you know the community in which they teach very well and their vacation habits) is pretty offensive.

For that matter, an awful lot of us don't get to take any vacation at all. And I'm not even a teacher.

I never said anyone was overcharging. I originally asked a question to the OP - who doesn't seem to be here - and offered my opinion on different possible scenarios.

The OP said she allows two weeks off for the summer, and some time off for Christmas. I didn't sense any flexibility there.

So:

Scenario 1). Student cancelled last minute - IMO, student should pay.

Scenario 2). Student cancelled with plenty of notice - IMO, student should not be billed.


I'm not making any assumptions on which scenario actually occurred, and I'm not making any assumption about the OP.

But you did:



Is that not what you meant? It really seems pretty clear in your post. Maybe you should clarify.

I'm not sure why you're being argumentative. I clarified my position in the previous post I made.

That's what I mean. You are looking at this the wrong way.

What you see is a greedy teacher who only lets her students take 2 weeks off without charge.

But think about it for a minute. If Mrs.C. were a greedy teacher then she might teach 10% fewer lessons but charge 20% more per lesson. You would pay more money for fewer lessons. Her income would increase and she would have more time off. And you as the customer don't feel cheated because it seems as if you are not paying for those weeks you are not there.

Does that sound like a better deal?

This is a much different question than that of 2 or 4 weeks presumed holidays. This goes back to cancellations.

I have proposed that the nature of this service requires ongoing lessons over a period of several years, and what we actually have are monthly installments paying for an annual charge. Meanwhile a teacher is keeping a particular time slot open for that student over that long time period.

In this scenario cancellations do not work, because that time slot cannot be filled by someone else. It is a long term arrangement. Imagine that the teacher is a leased car that will be available to you alone for the next three years. But in the month of April you don't need that car - what happens?

If I understand this then we are not paying for the service but for the time slot. The actual service might go overtime or under time, and may also include answering questions by e-mail or phone, making arrangements on a student's behalf, none of which will be billed. I don't think it can be stuck into a calculator in such a cut and dry way.

I'm not seeing a greedy teacher. Again, i asked a question, and provided a perspective from a student, and parent.
At this point I'll bow out of the discussion.

Keystring, what you describe is exactly how I run my studio.

It's all in my studio policy which every client has a copy of and can read on my website.

And yet, when they choose to go on holiday during term time because flights are cheaper they still ask me how much they owe and when they can have their lesson made up.

Phlebas, the reason we are being argumentative is because this is a problem we face all the time. It gets very wearing. And when we complain people think we are money grabbing and being greedy. Not so. None of us do this for the money.

There is a huge difference between Saerra's post and yours. Saerra expressed a personal opinion and did not pick and choose from another's post to make points. I don't agree with every single point Saerra made, but the post in my opinion was fair. For one thing, before making points about what might be seen as "negativity" coming from teachers, time was taken first to thank us for the things we may be doing right.

Furthermore, when you cherry-pick talking points from someone else's long post, leaving out anything that does not support your own points, it should be rather clear to anyone reading why what you are doing is not exactly fair.

I doubt that future students of mine will be reading what I write here, and I doubt that even if they did, they would know who I really am and where I work. However, if a student of mine or potential future student reads what I have written here, I stand by it.

You seem to be making a general point that we, as a group, are somehow doing a disservice to ourselves by turning off people who might want to take lessons before they even decide to take them.

It's equally possible that fair people will get some insight into problems we face. Regardless, my involvement in this thread is a matter of principle. I am not *talking* about my own students. I have mentioned no specific problems in this thread. When I do mention students, I often change the gender of a student or even slightly change an age. That is to keep the anonymity of my own students safe.

My reaction in this thread is to the way other teachers have been portrayed by a minority of people who will continue to insist that unless we run our businesses in the exact way that benefits them, we are doing something wrong.

You missed the whole point. This did not start off about me. No one ever stated that anything that I do in my own policy is unfair. Notice that I have said very little about my teaching other than to stress that teaching piano is a difficult way to make a living. The fact is that my own students rarely pay for any lessons they do not take. To be honest, I am much too lenient about making up lessons. I've had some families completely forget to come, and when I called to ask where they are, I've received a combination of a great deal of embarrassment accompanied by a plea to make up the time, and I've done it if the families were willing to make-up during a slot that was empty, between two scheduled students. I could tell you a lot more stories like this. It is quite possible that most of the teachers here think I am nuts to be so lenient. If they feel so, I'm not sure that I would disagree with them.

By the way, you (it seems) might assume that other teachers do not do such "favors" for good students merely because they have not stated it. Why would they not state it? Well, because the moment we admit we bend our own policies, guess what happens? It is then EXPECTED in the future. Again, I could give you story after story illustrating this.

The fact is that people hear mostly what they have already decided is true and discard what does not support that. I have confidence that the majority of people who have read this thread will understand the points we are trying to make, namely that we work very hard, that we are extremely dedicated to what we are doing, that we NEVER want people not to come to lessons (because then we have no opportunity to teach them), and that MOST parents are rather cooperative in supporting what we do and are fair to us, as we are to them.

I DIRECTLY quoted you, you said you didn't say that.
then when I ask you about it, you accuse me of being argumentative. Apparently I really missed something. I will step back and watch this one play out.

First I apologize if I didn't first give props before I commented. I didn't realize that was necessary

Second, like I stated, there was only a subset of things in your post which contained parts of piques post that I was addressing. I didn't just cherry pick the ones that supported my point, I simply picked the ones that seemed germane to what I wanted to discuss (supporting or not). To quote her entire post wouldn't have made sense (esp considering that I don't even know if your various snippets added up to her entire post). If there were other comments by pique that I missed that applied to the specific topic I wanted to discuss, then feel free to point them out, it was not done intentionally.



Kudos to you standing by what you post. And certainly you could be correct in that others would see your posts and determine that any positive comments would far outweigh any negative comments. And I definitely agree that the reality is that there is likely to be a very small percentage of of current/potential students/parents who will ever be on this forum.



I never stated that teachers never worked hard, never did good things for their students, never cut their students/parents a break, never stated or implied anything about the way you personally treat your students and/or their parents. Heck, I even agree with the teachers when it comes to the topic of this thread and have posted so. My point was only to mention that the tone, timbre, and content of some of the teachers posts when taken as a whole can be viewed negatively, simple as that. Again, if that is of no concern to you (and/or you disagree), then fine, I've already said that I'm perfectly ok with that. A couple of other people have repeated that theme, so it may be something to consider (and I'll repeat once again, if you've considered it and have moved on, then fine). I don't understand why you seem to think this is some type of attack on or dissing of you or teachers in general.

As one of the people who have, in unrelated past discussions, pointed out my discomfort with the impression a casual reader of this board can get about how piano teachers view their students and parents, I can agree with your above point, while at the same time taking issue with what you said, and the way you said it, in earlier posts.

You might think it silly for Saerra to 'give props' before she said what she did, but in a discussion where teachers clearly felt on the defensive already, due to the comments of other posters, and on a forum large enough you can't justifiably expect other readers to remember your stance, if any, on past issues (pro-teacher or con?), then it certainly is a good idea to state the point exactly as Saerra did.

Several of us in the past have said that we hope our presence on the board, as adult students or parents, is not obnoxious to those who the forum is mainly for...teachers. We have said that we hope, not only to learn from the collective wisdom here, but to perhaps have the opportunity to give insight from the 'consumer' point of view, that might, for instance, help teachers fine-tune wording of policy. Or help a teacher, whose whole life might have revolved around piano, better understand...and deal with... the perspective of a parent who wants piano to be one of several equally important activities.

It never hurts to say, "You know that I like you, but..." especially in a thread where non-teachers seem to only post to say that teachers are unreasonable and overcharging for services not rendered.

Actually it was more of an "inside" statement with a little history behind it. If one were to read my posts on the Teachers Forum specifically, one would note a great many places where I give props to teachers (including threads that Gary has participated in).

That said, I guess I should put my money where my mouth is. I made a post (or two) that gave people a certain impression, unintentional on my part, not considering how others who may not have read other things by me might get the wrong idea. I get it and actually do feel a bit silly since that's the specific point I myself have been trying to get across. Thanks for pointing out my bit of hypocrisy there.

As a teacher, I very much appreciate posts from folks who are not teachers themselves. Such posts give me feedback and serve as a checks and balances if you will. Especially when it comes to how I run my business, what I charge, and policies.
An important thing was mentioned in a post about piano lessons being one of many IMPORTANT activities. This is crucial.
I want piano lessons to be important in the eyes of the parents, so they will respect and honor my studio policy, be kind and courteous to me when it comes to makeup lessons and cancellations, and pay me on time. I would rather they find another teacher if this respect is not there.
I have many parents who are really good to me and I bend over backwards for these folks. There are always a few who will try to get something for nothing or just give you a hard time.
All small business owners face this, not just piano teachers.

Thanks for reading it Gary, I know you don't agree with all of it, but thanks for looking it over and considering it

Part of what happens for me, when I'm reading (and maybe others?) is...

I read something that a teacher has written, for example, a statement like, "My policy is no make-up lessons."

The teacher may have meant (as I think you explained) that this is to deal with the students who take advantage. A student who wants to reschedule 3 of every 4 lessons, for example (which would drive ANY of us crazy, I imagine.)

And, perhaps this is obvious to all of the teachers.

To me, as a non-teacher, I don't have that view of the situation - I only have my own lessons, with me as the student (and I'm a dream student, naturally ) - it sounds unfair because I'm applying it to *my* situation.

I'm putting that statement in the wrong context. I'm looking at it in the context of my own studies. I'm thinking, "wow, I've never missed a lesson in two years, if I had to reschedule and my teacher told me that it wasn't allowed, I'd be upset." (Note, I'm also thinking of "reschedule" as - call several days before to reschedule, NOT call after having missed the lesson, which is also just crazy to me that people do that!)

But from what you, and others, have said - you're really not talking about my situation. (Though, if it's your policy, obviously it's within your rights to say no to the reschedule. But it sounds like in my case - never late, never missing or rescheduling lessons, generally prepared for lessons, long-term student, etc... I'd be one of the ones that you'd be lenient with.)

So, we end up talking with totally different contexts in mind, and both "sides" can't understand how the other can seem so "unreasonable".

I don't know if others think this way too, but that's what goes through my head - "what if that happened to me". But it *wouldn't*, because I'm not the one who's not showing up to lessons, not bothering to call, or asking to rearrange my schedule every week.

I think it helps me to realize this. That you're not talking about *me* (I know, it sounds silly and maybe self-centered, but again - since I don't teach, the only experience I have is my own lessons. It's hard not to generalize and assume everybody is like me! )


And - Morodiene - what you wrote about teaching was really beautiful. It should be posted and rooted at the top of the forum.

take care everyone

saerra,

I'm going to answer you in detail in the hopes that other fair people will read my response.

The point is that your way of responding left me and others and opening to respond reasonably.

For all I know, some teachers may have that agreement. However, my policy states that no lessons will be made up when calls are made on the day of the lesson. As you have guessed, that rule is to protect myself from people who not only cancel at the last moment, for the most feeble excuses you can imagine, but also from those who don't even remember to come. So, what happens if I get a call from a mother of a boy who is a great student but who came home from school because he threw up there? If it's a student who works hard and I like? And the parents treat me with respect?

I don't WANT to miss that lesson. It's not to my advantage to miss it, if I can possibly find time to reschedule. I simply ask that rescheduled lesssons take place between students on my schedule, at a time that will not cause me to begin early or end late. It's really common sense. If I can get such a student in the next day or day after, I want to.

Now, let me illustrate how far it can go the other way: I get a call at the last minute, or not at all. I can't even get a good reason for it happening. No reasonable explanation. Then a parent pushes me to make up the lesson. I'm going to draw a line. I HAVE to draw a line somewhere. I've actually had people who skipped make-ups without so much as a call asking to have the make-up made up. Those of you who don't teach have no idea how disrespectful a FEW parents are. And as I've said over and over again, those are the people who cause all the problems. Those are the people who force us to have policies. Because no matter what the rules, they will try to break them.

In a way, it's much worse than you think. Imagine a parent who insists that there is one and only one time each week that they can have a lesson. They miss lessons by calling a day early, which seems reasonable, doesn't it? I agree to make up a lesson. Two months later they have denied EVERY attempt I've made to reschedule. No matter what other time I offer, any time, any day, it is not good. They are "too busy". Is this common? Really, it is not. But if you have two or three families who are so demanding, it just screws everything up. The agreement says one make-up per month, and the lesson must be made up by the end of the next month. Compared to most policies, that is extremely loose. I will have zero problem with 90% of my students working with me. They think it is reasonable. But 10% will argue. First, they will not agree to a make-up that month. Then, the next month, they will STILL be "too busy". And then they will ask for a refund.

Now, if I say that hell will freeze over before I refund someone in that situation, people will immediately assume I am a mean guy, all about money, etc. And that's just not true.

Ask all the teachers here how much trouble they have getting along with people like you and I'll bet their answers will be the same: no problems.

See? You do understand.

I'm most definitely not talking about people like you.

Yes, I would. Frankly, with an excellent student I am mostly worried when they don't come without calling. I assume immediately that something really bad has happened—death in the family, accident, and so on.

Again, you are exactly right. When people start venting about problem students, they are just that—problems. We are not talking about respectful, cooperative people.

Thank you Gary! Everything you just wrote made perfect sense to me. I think I get where you are all coming from much better now!

saerra, I just have to say that is it really great to hear the way you are viewing these posts, from your perspective.

This is why I believe it's important to let this forum be open to all folks, not just teachers. We learn from you, just as you learn from us.

I very much appreciate the way that you have approached us and told *all* of us your views (good and bad) and where they ended up leading you.

Thank you VERY much for your participation and the patience it takes to get around some of the off topic stuff in order to get there.

the schools I am talking about is a private school who hire teachers so the rules are quite rigid but sometimes teachers can ajust the rules....

I'm not a teacher, I'm a student. That being said, I do not understand why it's so difficult for some people in this thread to understand that abruptly canceling a lesson costs teachers potential income.

When you cancel a doctor's appointment too close to the date, you will get charged a certain fee. The same for the dentist, or any other health care professional. It's the same for schools, for programs at the YMCA, and other places.

Maybe those against this idea have simply never been in the situation where time literally equals money. I've never been a teacher, but I've been a freelancer in the IT industry. When people canceled or didn't show up to a scheduled meeting, it cost me potential salary. That hour or two of my workday cannot be made up; that time is gone forever.

Individual teachers (those not associated with institutes, conservatories, etc) are freelancers too. Their workday time IS money.

Teachers make their payment rules for a reason, and it's not to screw over students. It's simply to protect their income from people who are too ignorant to understand what it means to work as a freelancer.

My teacher had a student who skipped three straight weeks of lessons without saying anything then showed up the day/time she had scheduled a lesson with me (his "normal" time) and expected to have a lesson as if nothing happened. If he had done that to someone who worked at an institution he'd be out $160. As it is, my teacher was out the $160. How is that fair? It's not at all.

I can completely understand why the teachers here are upset at some of the comments people are making.

caracantabile:

Need lessons?? lol

Your teacher is lucky to have you

Who in this thread was arguing the position that abruptly canceled (I assume that means last minute) lessons do not cost the teacher potential income, and the student should not be responsible for paying for those lessons?

ANY cancellation will cost us potential income.

What difference does it make how much notice is given?

If a student calls me on Tuesday to cancel a lesson on Thursday I am left with an empty slot. Apart from being polite it makes no other difference to me.

cara,
That is so true. It is nice to see someone who understands. I truly think that most people when they do this just do not realize the impact it has on the teacher. A well-written policy does wonders to help educate parents in such instances. I'm sure part of the reason why your teacher had scheduled you at that other student's time was to send a message (although I'm sure primarily it was to help you, but hey, she killed two birds with one stone). I'm glad they showed up and realized that they lost their time slot!

I agree with Chris, that it is not just last-minute cancellations, but any cancellation costs us money. Cancellation with notice is preferred of course, because at least we can plan for it, and it is considerate on the part of the student or parent.

The fact remains that if a teacher cannot make a living by having a somewhat regular income, then they will most likely have to get a job and quit teaching. Then who teaches those students?

From a business perspective, allowing for only a limited number of cancellations and paying tuition on a semester or monthly basis in advance is a common practice in other professions. My husband, who owns a web development company, does mainly contract work for a distinct amount of money for a distinct project. Once that is done, you may get more work form the client, but many times you won't hear from them for a few years until they are ready to add features or upgrade their site. In the beginning this cause cash-flow issues, and it often was feast or famine. We then realized that there were some clients who did routine maintenance on their websites, but the work came in sporadically, and decided to set those clients on a pre-paid maintenance plan at a discounted rate, so they would get 10 hours of work per month for a set amount, which was 10% off our regular hourly rate. This really helped the cash flow of the business.

This is the same concept that teachers with limited cancellations are employing. Pay in advance for a time slot/amount of time, and if you choose to use it, great, if not, you forfeit it.

Relax. All I said was no one is taking the position that last minute cancellations should not be paid for.

At any rate, it seems to make a difference here because people make distinctions between cancellations with notice, and cancellations without notice. If it doesn't make any difference, then why is that mentioned so much in this forum?

Is the bottom line of what is right or wrong whether it costs the teacher potential income? I don't think that should always be the case.

If I take lessons, and in order to keep a "slot" with the teacher I pay for all but two summer weeks, knowing - and communicating with the teacher - that I am taking 3 weeks or a month off, I can't help but feel cheated because I think there should be some flexibility in the summer to allow for people taking various amounts of time off.

When I voice something like this here, I'm met with sarcasm, and anger, but it's from the perspective of the student, and you need to know that's how some of us feel.

Phlebas, I understand perfectly, and I bet there's a teacher out there whose policy matches your need to take long vacations. The best I can do is *encourage* students to take lessons for 6 weeks out of the summer by giving those students their preferred lesson time in the Fall. Those who do not take these lessons will get scheduled after those who did. For some, even 6 weeks out of 3 months is too much (and I'm very flexible with scheduling, they can do every other week, or a few weeks here and there). Anyways, it's not a huge loss for those who choose not to come or cannot, but those that can make it have a huge advantage over those who don't. Most likely those who do not come will go 3 months without practicing.

Thank you Morodiene. Every teacher I have had, and my daughter has had - combined, this is 10 teachers between us - has been flexible in the way you describe. It was never brought up by me, and has never been an issue.

In some cases I paid by the month (missed lesson? Well, that's the way it goes because I understood their policy, and the reasons behind it).

Please offer a solution to the following scenario I am facing right now:

My studio policy states,"lessons shall continue through the summer, with the understanding that each of us will be taking time off for vacations. Students who commit to summer lessons shall have spots reserved for them when school starts".
I have a student who is taking June, July, and August off from piano lessons. Her parents want me to hold her spot till after Labor Day. I asked if they were away for the whole summer and they said "no vacations planned, we will be here, we just want our daughter to take summers off from all lessons". I told them I cannot hold her spot open for 3 months. And now it turns out I have a waiting list for fall. I am planning to give up her spot. Is this wrong?