I have a question that people who own or have viewed Taubman Techniques videos vol. 5 about shaping. I viewed it 2 times in 2005, but I don't seem to remember the details anymore.

When do you use "over" shaping, and when do you use "under" shaping?

I remember on Chopin's etude Opus 10 No. 1, for the first group on the first measure, you use "under" shaping and the first group on the second measure, you use "over" shaping. Fortunately, I have developed some instincts when one works over the other, but I think there's some kind of a guideline (for example, for a large leap, you use "over" shaping).

My guess is it depends on the direction of the passage (going up or down in terms of pitches), or it depends on the interval (like I said, large leap = "over" shaping). It could be in-and-out motion.

If you can give me the general principles with exceptions, I will greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

Welcome to PW. In my experience here you get more attention from the Taubmaners if you criticize them. They're good at defending a general creed but rarely help much. On op 10 no 1 I go 'up' on finger 5 on the upward arps and down on finger 5 on the downward arps. - that gives you accents going up as well as down. I hardly practice it though because doing all the accents at the given tempo is nigh impossible with modern heavy action.

Keyboardklutz,

Thank you for your response!

I have done some research after I built this thread.

Shaping on the right hand: drawing circle (or ellipse)counterclockwise

Shaping on the left hand: drawing circle (or ellipse) clockwise.

In short, when the passage goes up in terms of pitches on the right hand, you would use "under" shaping, and when the passage goes down, you would use "over" shaping.

On the other hand, if the passage goes up on the left hand, you would use "over" shaping and if it goes down, you would use "under" shaping.

Any exceptions?

Your right wrist does counter-clockwise loops going up on op 10 no 1 and clockwise loops going down. If that's what you're saying, then yes. Check out William Townsend: http://www.archive.org/details/modernpianoteach00townuoft

(This is meant to be descriptive of the way I have been taught, not prescriptive. )

If the passage goes up, right hand, and then returns directly to the thumb (say, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1), one uses an overshape, as the undershape would create too much distance between the thumb and the keyboard. (At the end of an undershape the forearm is not square to the keyboard, but at a slight angle with the elbow slightly out, thus the distance between thumb and keyboard.)

OTOH, in a passage that goes up and then down without returning directly to the thumb, say., (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1), one uses under-over with 5 being the boundary.

Note: an undershape is a misnomer, it is typically flat (Ms. Golandsky says so explicitly in one of the videos.) The wrist never falls below level (level with the forearm). Often when the last finger, or last couple of fingers, within an undershape play, the wrist has started to rise, particularly when an undershape is followed by an overshape as in the last example.

As is typical of these description, this is much easier to show than to explain.

ocd