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Thanks keeferae, got your message. No worries about the delay.

What happened to your daughter? Is she better now? Fever gone down? Take good care of yourself also. Else, the virus will go round and round. Nowadays weather is very warm. Drink more water. Also, haze may be coming back soon. So take very good care.

Best Regards,
Bihua

Hi Bihua,

Thanks for the concern. My daughter is OK. Several blood tests showed everything is fine so far but still need to send her back to the hospital for review in 2 weeks time to ensure the other tests are also OK.

By the way, I forgot to mention that when we auditioned the W&L 122 and Hailun 122, we found the Hailun sounded more "booming" (not so clear). Like what eningtay said, its "vibration kinda mix together".

As to the comment that W&L 122 and Hailun 122 are the same, I subsequently found out that the W&L has a piece of aluminium plate running right across and below the keys but not the Hailun. I have been told in this forum that this is for better regulation. Regarding the relationship between W&L and Hailun, there seems not much info on them (seems they are very confidential). Hence, very difficult to find out more info between the two brands.


Quote: Davinci
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Gramercy quite a cosy place with “woody envirnoment” But I doubt I will visit any sooner after being “blacklisted” by the boss for asking dee too much technical question.
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At the beginning of our piano shopping, we went to Gramercy also. As have been said, got very little info on the Willem Tell. When we found it being advertised again, I called up one of their authorised dealer to find out more info. But, I got referred back to Gramercy as the guy said he did not know much................what a put off. As for the price, it seems to have remained the same since end of last year.

As far as my research goes on, W&L and Hailun is almost identical, with the exception that W&L is sent to Austria to final inspection before it is sent to the distributors in each region.
And of course, the different name on the fallboard and perhaps a difference in warranty policy and some other minor thing.

Build wise, tone wise, touch wise, should be from the same factory although there might be slight difference on the performance and quality. After all, being mass produced does not mean it is identical!

keeferae, regarding that you find extra aluminium plate, I am also curious. Unless the Austrians add it up, or else maybe it should not be there. Well, I don't know much though, all are my archives from PW.

Anyway, anyone has any idea on the price of Estonia in Singapore? I am looking at their price and if reasonable, I might want to drive down to Singapore and snatch one! 168 and 190 will do. The concert grand should be way out of budget!!
Thanks in advance.

Also, keeferae, hope your daugther is fine all the way!

1st disounted price from a teacher, second price with hundreds lesser, the recent seen was even cheaper.

Authorized dealer? Doesn't means the sales or recptionist in charge is capable to answers any technical or historical question. They probably have the price list data only. Technical question better ask Gramercy, because sacali answer wrongly, potential customer kenna frighten.

Is it a studio? It may be good at times to act apologetic with a smile... sorry arr i'm not sure about this, may i refer you the the technical dept?

JinJack, ah ha... now you are exploring and venturing into neighbouring country in search of your dream piano ar? If budget in no problem, buy once enjoy for a life time. Settle for the best money can buy.

Hi tanjinjack,

Thanks for your concern regarding my daughter.

Hailun and W&L have been discussed quite thoroughly in an earlier thread : "Hailun pianos".

Just to recap some of the issues, W&L pianos that are sold in Asia (in the US as well, it seems) are not shipped to Vienna for final inspection. They are shipped out straight from China. However, according to one of the forum member, they are voiced similarly to those sent to Austria (which are for the European market). Hence, this could have accounted for the rather substantial price differences if you compare what the W&L are selling here and in Europe.
http://www.lesmaitresdupiano.net/attachments/diapason-or.pdf

As for the aluminium plate, according to PianoMaster, it is the only difference between the W&L 122 and Hailun 122.

When I tried to find out more about the aluminium plate, Schwammer had kindly provided this info (unfortunately, it is in French):

Quote:
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The dealers must be refering to the aluminium key frame which stabilizes the keyboard and warrants better regulation stability:

http://www.lesmaitresdupiano.net/w&l.pdf (see p. 3 - 'Chassis de clavier' - sorry French only).
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Oh man, the French that I know is...
bonjour, au revior, merci, cest la vie, vous etes stupidite, vous etes gros and..
yeah, of course, je taime...

Well, with that command of French, no way I can understand lah.

But then, wouldn't getting a Hailun better than W&L if it is not sent to Austria for final inspection. Who is responsible for the warranty in the end if it is not backed by the Austrian?

Anyway, like any other members say, it's tone, touch, price and then appearance. Tone and touch and appearnce should be similar for W&L and Hailun. How about their price? If there's a difference, then judge whether the extra Al key frame worths it or not?

Well, just my opinion.

snoopycar, not only Singapore. I even get to know a dealer in Surabaya, Indonesia. She's giving me 22,000USD for Estonia 190 which is quite cheap. I am not sure with the details though, the warranty policy, inclusion of import duty or not etc.

How is the market there in Singapore for Estonia?

See this thread for an indication of what it takes to buy a piano from a foreign location. The details of course may vary, and the seller (if a dealer) may be able to help with the shipping arrangements.

Assuming that all the shipping logistics can be sorted out properly, there is stil the really crucial issue of piano prep and long-term servicing.

And although pianos are generally very hardy things, you still must try to provide it with as comfortable an environment as possible. The level of care you provide usually increases rapidly with the amount of money you spend on the piano!

Hi tanjinjack,

There is a 10 years warranty from the dealer and the option to sell it back to them at 1/2 price after 5 years (provided we engage them to service the piano 6 monthly during that period). So, I don't think they will offer such terms if they do not having the backing of W&L Austria (just my opinion).

As for the price difference between the W&L and Hailun, the W&L cost 10% higher.

I did a translation regarding the description of the Aluminium frame using Google Translate. Although not perfect, it said the aluminium frame provides significantly better rigidity compared to conventional construction and also better withstand changes in the climate. (Perhaps, someone out there who knows French can better translate it)

Why don't you email Hailun and ask?
They should be able to tell you the difference between the W&L and Hailun.

Regarding the 10 years warranty, it's from the dealer, not the manufacturer. How if the dealer went down of business? Check about the Hailun, if the Hailun warranty is backed by the manufacturer, then it's another score when compared to W&L.

I feel the most important thing is the Al frame. Ask snoopycar for opinion. Or you want to make a thread in the tech forum to ask on the Al frame. Personally, I am a bit conservative on the pdf file. It's like an advertisement. No way they will say there's no big difference after adding the frame. For sure they will tell you, due to the rigidity of Al, certainly it is better and bla bla bla.
Scientifically maybe correct, but may not be consumer-friendly. You get what I mean?

Well, 5 years then half price? Then 10 years (also when your warranty end) your piano has no value at all? LOL, just kidding!

JinJack, you cannot assume is a straight line depreciation. Any curve that hits the 50% mark on the 5th year will do. So it could be a convex curve with some value as time goes into infinity...

No offence...just trying to have some fun...

The point is the dealer is giving a sense of assurance that the product will deliver its performance.

It's like saying "If you are not satisfy with our product, let us try our best to rectify, adjust, tune... if still cannot, treat it as a rental piano of $35per mth, we refund you half of your purchase price".

But i think you cannot suka suka say i don't like after 5 yrs, it muz be valid reason like totally cannot play or soundboard broken.

With such an assurance and sincere effort, it's certainly not nice to joke about it. The owner has made a tremendous collaboration effort with the manufacter to gain the dealership, and is a respected master piano tuner.

Of course I am joking. The depreciation of price cannot be modelled by linear graph. It should be something like expontential (negative). Something that will keep on decrease but never hit the boundary, in this case 0 value.

Anyway, it's just a joke.

But, I think is you really suka suka say don't like after 5 years, you can also sell back isn't it, as long as the T&C does not state that you need reason to do so.

But then, for me I won't sell a piano with half price after 5 years lo, or maybe what I am looking at is something more expensive (well, cheap grand to be frank)...

LOL, going to Subang tomorrow! to find piano~

Can any assist to fill up below list of piano shop in case i miss out any.

1) Raffles Piano
2) Emmanuel & Sons
3) Chiu Piano
4) Yamaha
5) Cristofori
6) Asia Piano
7) Gramercy Music
8) Piano Master
9) Piano Passion
10)Sonata Music
11)Renner Piano
12)Robert Piano

Also below places carry what piano?
A) Shelley Piano
B) Pianoman
C) Piano Gallery
D) Zadok Music
F) Music Lodge
G) Piano Connection (still operating?)

(P/S: Lucky for the next one hunting piano manz )

Oh man, I wish I was the lucky one. There's so many piano stores in just that island of Singapore.

Parameswara will never know Temasik could develop until like that. His Malacca is... well, a historical town.. LOL..
T-O-W-N

No offense to the Melaka people though.. Just kidding..

Davinci, how about Keller Piano? (Or, Kelly Piano?)
I heard about this store on a Steinway Z up to sales in JB.

Robert Piano is the offspring of Keller.

Davinci,

Here is what I have compiled on the Piano shops in Singapore...still adding to the list though..

http://piano-diary.blogspot.com/2008/07/piano-shops-in-singapore-piano-for.html

Hope is useful. Thanks for your list as well. Will add the missing ones in...

Bihua,

Wow with the address still. Steady

Emmanuel & Sons hv move to 148 Mackenzie rd leow

My apologies for bringing this thread to the frontpage for no other reason than that it is a source of happiness for me