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#1226384 - 07/02/09 09:10 PM G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3
RachFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 956
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Many of you have enjoyed hearing the long-neglected music of the Russian late romantic composer Georgy Catoire. So, in my continuing effort to help raise awareness of his works, I'm posting the Chants du crepuscule, Op. 24, No. 3 written around 1910. The best translation of the title would probably be "Songs of the Twilight". As with Catoire's Four Preludes, Op. 17 posted below, you'll again find that Catoire's idiom is highly original. I hope you'll enjoy my latest recording. Here is the link:

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,34508.msg400707.html#msg400707

It seems that Piano World no longer puts links into hypertext in messages. But you can still copy the link and paste it into the URL field in your browser.


Edited by RachFan (07/02/09 10:57 PM)

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#1226561 - 07/03/09 10:11 AM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: RachFan]
Chris W_dup1 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 868
Loc: Dallas, TX
RachFan,

Quite an unusual piece. As has been said elsewhere, "An unsatisfied searching that yet musically satisfies." I especially liked the mini-climax around 2:05 --- well done! You continue to do a great service bringing forth little-known (or at least little-played) compositions. Keep up the great work!

A tiny nit: I'd have liked a little more emphasis of this piece's rhythm. While I respect the dreamy nature of the piece, it helps the listener to feel the actual rhythm within which this dreaminess occurs. I felt a bit too "unanchored."

A compliment: Your piano's tuning! The best I've heard to date. The upper register was finally well-behaved.

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#1226674 - 07/03/09 02:36 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: Chris W_dup1]
RachFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 956
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Chris,

Thanks for listening to this "Chant". Yes, the piece is unusual, very haunting. Catoire had influences, but remained highly original in my opinion. Playing/recording his music has been as satisfying as my Bortkiewicz project (which I still plan to continue). One of the things I especially like are Catoire's very inventive and lush codas. Few composers wrote them as well as he. Several people have also remarked about that element in his compositions.

On the rhythm, I think it's actually pretty close on. If you listen to Mark-Andre Hamel's rendition, you'll find pretty much the same sense there. The piece, as you say, is very dreamy. Because Catoire was trying to capture part of nature--the play of light, water, etc., which can be random, he chose to write almost exclusively in polyrhythms. Except on some downbeats, infrequently do two notes sound exactly together. That sets up some unpredictability and off-centeredness, which I believe was actually his aim, which contributes to the atmospherics of the piece. Too, he changes the tempo a few times. I think this piece takes two or three hearings to feel "anchored" as you say. I was keenly aware of this issue early on, and occasionally used metronome drills in practicing as a "sanity check", but not to the detriment of the gentle lyrical character of the piece.

Yes! The Baldwin, just tuned, was in excellent voice here. Being summer it was tuned to A440, and I like the darker quality to it now. During the brutal northern winters, I keep it sharp at concert pitch to counteract the tendency to go flat, as all pianos inevitably do here. At the tuning I asked him to give special attention to the two uppermost octaves, the devilish part of tuning this piano, and they came out right on.

I think my brand new Earthworks TC20 matched pair of mics contributed greatly to the clean, clear, neutral and natural sound of the piano.

Thanks again, Chris, for all your comments!

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#1226698 - 07/03/09 03:56 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: RachFan]
Chris W_dup1 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 868
Loc: Dallas, TX
Yes, I agree about the mics. The recording quality was very nice, very clear.

I will be re-listening to your performance to see if I can feel more "anchored. Anyway, my comment was just a "nit"; overall, it's a very fine performance.

I'd love to hear the Hamel performance, but couldn't find it on youtube.

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#1226801 - 07/03/09 08:22 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: Chris W_dup1]
Horowitzian Online   sick
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 5892
Link to Rachfan's recording.

Some URL's don't seem to render in hypertext and some do....anyway you can usually make it work by clicking the second button from left on the Full Reply Screen above the text box.

Do what it prompts you, and you should end up with the following in the text box:

Code:
[url=http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,34508.msg400707.html#msg400707]Link to Rachfan's recording.[/url]
_________________________
Best Regards,

~H

"I'm a general. My soldiers are the keys, and I have to command them." ~Vladimir Horowitz

Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 1 & Bach Invention No. 8 in F major.
Chopin Polonaise Op. 44 in F#m — back burner.

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#1226802 - 07/03/09 08:25 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: Horowitzian]
Horowitzian Online   sick
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 5892
I'm loving the recording right now. Thanks so much for posting this piece which I was completely unfamiliar with. Lovely tone and clarity too; sounds like a pro recording in every aspect to me. thumb
_________________________
Best Regards,

~H

"I'm a general. My soldiers are the keys, and I have to command them." ~Vladimir Horowitz

Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 1 & Bach Invention No. 8 in F major.
Chopin Polonaise Op. 44 in F#m — back burner.

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#1226804 - 07/03/09 08:26 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: Chris W_dup1]
Horowitzian Online   sick
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 5892
Originally Posted By: Chris W_dup1
Yes, I agree about the mics. The recording quality was very nice, very clear.

I will be re-listening to your performance to see if I can feel more "anchored. Anyway, my comment was just a "nit"; overall, it's a very fine performance.

I'd love to hear the Hamel performance, but couldn't find it on youtube.


Search for Marc-André Hamelin and you might get more hits. smile
_________________________
Best Regards,

~H

"I'm a general. My soldiers are the keys, and I have to command them." ~Vladimir Horowitz

Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 1 & Bach Invention No. 8 in F major.
Chopin Polonaise Op. 44 in F#m — back burner.

Top
#1226858 - 07/03/09 11:54 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 956
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Horowitzian,

Thanks for listening and enjoying my latest recording. And also for explaining to us all how to convert to hypertext here--very useful information!

Yes, I'm really pleased with the new Earthworks TC20 mics--such a clean, clear, and natural sound! Others like you have been very favorable about the sound. I think I made a good choice there.

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#1226864 - 07/04/09 12:11 AM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Online   sick
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 5892
You are most welcome! smile

I think I know what mics I'll get whenever I get around to putting together a real rig. Do you use a preamp or a FireWire or USB interface of some kind? My MacBook Pro has a FireWire 800 port so that could make things real convenient.
_________________________
Best Regards,

~H

"I'm a general. My soldiers are the keys, and I have to command them." ~Vladimir Horowitz

Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 1 & Bach Invention No. 8 in F major.
Chopin Polonaise Op. 44 in F#m — back burner.

Top
#1226986 - 07/04/09 12:17 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: Horowitzian]
Chris W_dup1 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 868
Loc: Dallas, TX
Originally Posted By: Horowitzian
Search for Marc-André Hamelin and you might get more hits. smile

I shoulda caught that! Thanks. I still didn't find this particular piece, though.

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#1226988 - 07/04/09 12:25 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: Chris W_dup1]
Horowitzian Online   sick
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 5892
smile

No problem!
_________________________
Best Regards,

~H

"I'm a general. My soldiers are the keys, and I have to command them." ~Vladimir Horowitz

Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 1 & Bach Invention No. 8 in F major.
Chopin Polonaise Op. 44 in F#m — back burner.

Top
#1227023 - 07/04/09 01:59 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 956
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Chris,

It's on a Hamel Hyperion CD "Catoire Piano Music", but might not be on YouTube.

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#1227028 - 07/04/09 02:21 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: RachFan]
RachFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 956
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Horowitzian,

The three components I use to record are the Korg MR-1000 DSD recorder, high quality Monster mic cables with XLR connectors (not shielded cables, as I do not need that protection near the piano), and the Earthworks TC20 matched pair of small diaphragm omni-directional condenser mics. The preamp is already on-board in the Korg unit, as is the "phantom power" for the mics. Music file transfers from the Korg to the PC are done with Belkin USB2 cable with gold fittings.

I use A-B stereo configuration with mics in parallel on stands raised 4.5 feet in height and about 7.5 feet back from the center of the piano, the mics being separated by 12 inches, with heads inclined slightly toward the top of the fully open piano lid. Of course, for room recordings the acoustics of every room will be different. That necessitates extensive and patient testing for mic placements--not for mic stereo separation or stand height, but particularly for distance from the piano. For classical music, close-in recordings (i.e, mics inside the piano or at or near the case rim) are not optimal. Those approaches work best for jazz and pops, where a percussive sound of hammers on strings is desired. Classical piano demands a fully formed, blended, and finished sound--thus placing mics away from the piano from about 5 to 8 feet depending on the room acoustics. That also inherently rules out use of X-Y coincident mic configurations, which are generally used within 3 feet of the piano and with cardioid mics. Again, the strategy for classical recording is to get the mics AWAY from the piano. I hope this helps.


Edited by RachFan (07/04/09 02:26 PM)

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#1227200 - 07/04/09 10:31 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Online   sick
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 5892
Thanks for the info! smile

That sounds like a nice simple rig, but the results speak for themselves. thumb
_________________________
Best Regards,

~H

"I'm a general. My soldiers are the keys, and I have to command them." ~Vladimir Horowitz

Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 1 & Bach Invention No. 8 in F major.
Chopin Polonaise Op. 44 in F#m — back burner.

Top
#1227211 - 07/04/09 11:15 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: Horowitzian]
RachFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 956
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Horowitzian,

Yes, simplification! When I think back to my analog recording days, I had a standalone receiver/amp, audio cassette tape deck, a tape dubbing unit for copying tapes, external power supply, external mixing box, two small-diaphragm condenser electret condenser mics with cartioid capsules and one with an omni-directional capsule for ambiance behind the other two (all powered by cylindrical 9.1V batteries), three mic stands, with RCA cables interconnecting all components like a network, separate mic cables, and even a recording remote control and cable. Not to mention recorder head cleaner fluid with Q-tips, a demagnitizer gun, and a supply of Type IV metal audio cassette tapes. Talk about clutter!!!

When I belatedly crossed into the digital age, I was astounded that all I needed (for even better results) were a recorder with hard drive, a matched pair of small-diaphragm omni-directional condenser mics with just two stands, two XLR mic cables, and a USB2 cable. Moreover, functions like the amp, mic power supply, and mixing were built directly into the recorder, which is now also miniaturized compared to the old fashion rig. So no more equipment clutter, and far better sound which, as you point out, is the proof of the pudding. Now that's progress!


Edited by RachFan (07/04/09 11:19 PM)

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#1227517 - 07/05/09 08:49 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: RachFan]
Horowitzian Online   sick
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 5892
Dang, that's a lot of stuff! Digital is good. thumb
_________________________
Best Regards,

~H

"I'm a general. My soldiers are the keys, and I have to command them." ~Vladimir Horowitz

Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 1 & Bach Invention No. 8 in F major.
Chopin Polonaise Op. 44 in F#m — back burner.

Top
#1227539 - 07/05/09 09:44 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: RachFan]
Chris W_dup1 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 868
Loc: Dallas, TX
Originally Posted By: RachFan
It's on a Hamel Hyperion CD "Catoire Piano Music", but might not be on YouTube.

Ah! Thanks for the info.

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#1227969 - 07/07/09 12:11 AM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: Chris W_dup1]
zp3929 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 528
Loc: australia
Beautiful piece and recording David, very dreamy! keep it up smile

Zac
_________________________
"I don't think I handle the notes much differently from other pianists. But the pauses between the notes - ah, there is where the artistry lies" - Artur Schnabel


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#1227975 - 07/07/09 12:24 AM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: zp3929]
RachFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 956
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi Zac,

Yeah, what a gorgeous piece! Catoire was a genius, pure and simple.

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#1228109 - 07/07/09 01:10 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: RachFan]
apple* Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 15829
Loc: Kansas
i finally had the chance to listen in depth. great piece David. .. gorgeous. I'm so grateful for the introduction to Catoire. I'm looking forward to learning some of the things that you play. I have to select something to perform in a year.,.. to really polish and shine.
_________________________
love, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1228260 - 07/07/09 06:52 PM Re: G. Catoire, "Chants du crepuscule", Op. 24, No. 3 [Re: apple*]
RachFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 956
Loc: Maine, U.S.
Hi apple*,

Catoire's music is so incredibly beautiful, that it seems tragic that it has been so neglected all these decades. I'm already working on another of the "Chants", so hope to have that posted here in awhile. Thanks for listening and commenting on this music!

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