Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 90 of 124 < 1 2 ... 88 89 90 91 92 ... 123 124 >
Topic Options
#1367923 - 02/07/10 02:18 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
OK, now I have 22 as a D# dim (VII of III).

In bar 24 I had disregarded the C as a passing note and called it a D dim, which as you say gives us some sort of II V I. If I count the C then it's the first time I've seen a chord which is both fully and half diminished. laugh

Good one, Johannes, you've totally confused us!

On the other hand, if I really want to make it fit Randy's solar system, I could make it a Ab dim (VII of VI).

But I increasingly feel that Bach just liked the sound of those notes together, and that's why he wrote it, unaware as he was, of Randy's book.

From there on, it's pretty straightforward, with the exception of the sus chords.

This is new theory for me, and I can see it's helpful. I certainly would have struggled to see why, for example, bar 32 has Bb.

Nice one, thanks knotty! smile
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
(ads P/S)
Petrof Pianos

piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1368085 - 02/07/10 06:08 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: ten left thumbs]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1484
Loc: NY
I'm wondering about the syncopation - seems like you all use that a lot with the left hand chords with comping. I play most Latin tunes syncopated. Any tips, accenting the offbeat with jazz, etc? Thanks. smile

Top
#1368099 - 02/07/10 06:17 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Elssa]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Elssa
I'm wondering about the syncopation - seems like you all use that a lot with the left hand chords with comping. I play most Latin tunes syncopated. Any tips, accenting the offbeat with jazz, etc? Thanks. smile


Many tricks here and some can get complicated. I'm trying to get a Syncopated LH version of My Romance but I'm still struggling so let me practice it more (I'm doing 1 and 1+).

Most syncopated patterns though (typical in jazz) is Charleston based (1 and 2+) and if you start skipping some it sounds more unusual than it really is. What I mean here is that you don't always play the two notes. Sometimes you go 2+ 1, or 2+ 2+, then back to 1 and 2+. It's still based on a fixed charleston rhythm.

In contrast, Latin is played straight (downbeat syncopated).

If you practice Charleston at all tempos, it does become automatic where I don't count. My hand will just play it.

There's a little bit of a variance here though because a swing feel is enhanced by delaying the 2+ slightly. This is a matter of feel as 2+ implies a dotted quarter rhythm. It's not exactly a dotted quarter. So when in doubt, hang back just slightly more.

Here's Charleston in Notation

http://www.box.net/shared/3rd5ug414d
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1369909 - 02/10/10 12:44 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Something I just wanted to note to our group here....

One my BOX.NET Files for this thread has been downloaded 3222 TIMES!

That is incredible. I think some website must be linking directly to this thread.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1370165 - 02/10/10 12:10 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Well, jazzwee, whattaya know? We're not the only ones obsessed with jazz. (I can't claim any of my files have been access quite so many times.)

I feel like I've hit a bit of a brick wall lately with improvising. No doubt, this is the hardest thing to attempt without a teacher. This one I had to force myself to do - though I love the head. smile

Birks Works (Dizzy G arr Pete Churchill) from the ABRSM Jazz Piano grade 3 book:
http://www.box.net/shared/gtrfua7j7o

Who knows? Maybe it'll entertain the lurkers.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
#1370393 - 02/10/10 04:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: ten left thumbs]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
TLT, what you're learning here actually ls "vocabulary". Jazz solos have a certain sound, at least in bebop and blues, and you're applying it little by little.

Notice for example the head of this tune, you hear that distinctive melody right? Try to squeeze a little of that pattern into the solo. Next try to apply a little Blue Monk Melody and so on. What I don't realize is that over the years, all this is in my head so I can pull out it without thinking or looking at the keyboard.

Have you ever tried creating alternate melodies from a basic motif like you hear here? Meaning you use the same motif but change a little part of it. Then you change it a little bit more. It trains your ear to be listening rather than your fingers doing the choices.

I can tell that your fingers are deciding your note choices.

Maybe I can record the above melody and show you what I mean.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1370418 - 02/10/10 05:22 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Notice for example the head of this tune, you hear that distinctive melody right? Try to squeeze a little of that pattern into the solo. Next try to apply a little Blue Monk Melody and so on. What I don't realize is that over the years, all this is in my head so I can pull out it without thinking or looking at the keyboard.

Have you ever tried creating alternate melodies from a basic motif like you hear here? Meaning you use the same motif but change a little part of it. Then you change it a little bit more. It trains your ear to be listening rather than your fingers doing the choices.



I know what you mean. Funnily enough I hear it in my head. I don't think I could sing it. Certainly, if I sit at the piano, it just dissolves.

Do you remember your dreams? Ever had this experience - you wake out of a dream, with all the details in your head - images, sounds, people, colours, smell, story-line, mood, etc. You get up to wash your face, then try to remember the dream. It's gone. You just have a faint image left. You try again to remember it - even that image has gone.

It's like that. I have tunes in my head. I try to pin them down - they go.

But I feel I'm probably getting somewhere, though. Thankyou for your comments! smile
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
#1374438 - 02/15/10 07:35 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: ten left thumbs]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
All,

I don't know how many people here subscribe to 7notemode's videos. Every now and then, he creates a tutorial. Here's the latest on Sophisticated Lady:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdNWTcuWVuo

I happen to think that his tutorials are the best on youtube for more advanced players. You can play his arrangements just like he plays them, and understand a lot of what's going on. There are also lots of practice tips. It very much is like having a lesson that you can rewind. You can even ask questions right there on the thread and usually you'll get a quick answer.

Some guys on youtube are finding the tutorials too difficult to follow. Tom (7notemode) asked me to ask you guys your honest opinion. If you watched the video, just send him a message a youtube to tell him how he can make the videos better, what worked, what didn't.
If you haven't watched his videos, really you should smile

And now I'm thinking maybe this should go into the advanced thread. I'll let Jazzwee decide.

Top
#1374625 - 02/15/10 12:30 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
knotty, I just watched part 1 and yup, I think this will be too advanced for anyone in this thread so the Advanced thread is probably better.

7notemode, I see you are always around PW but I never see you posting. Drop by! Beeboss does.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1375766 - 02/16/10 05:02 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Hey Jazzwee,

just wanted to drop a line. I thought your recital entry was amazing. Such progress! Keep it up.

Top
#1375775 - 02/16/10 05:08 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
You're so kind Knotty. I thought it sucked big time. Aside from time problems, I was cramming too many notes. More space. I actually got quite frustrated after doing that. It shows that the struggle to learn Jazz continues. Just when you think you get it, you don't. frown.

At least the good news is that picking out notes was not the issue...

Thanks for the support. I appreciate it man.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1375874 - 02/16/10 06:37 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
I also thought it was wonderful, and I made a comment on the discussion thread. I would be very happy if one day I were able to play like that.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
#1375886 - 02/16/10 06:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: ten left thumbs]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
TLT, again thank you.

I wonder what it is. To my ears, I think it sounds really bad. This is interesting because it may be a development phase. Maybe I'm hearing myself now as pros would hear me -- which translates to "you suck!" smile

But I always say, when you can hear your faults, the faults will disappear. So I have something to look forward to.

Now I'm not unhappy with the actual note choices. It's all about rhythm/time, swing, form, LH. It's a wall I'm not able to overcome right now. It's not even about playing speed anymore.

Anyone out there with the same problems? If so share. As I'm a little discouraged right now.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1375894 - 02/16/10 06:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
If it's any help at all, I *always* think my own playing is pretty dreadful. It's a chronic thing. Like kids that are pretty but are convinced they are ugly, or anorexics who think they are fat. So, I sort of realise its just my way of trying to get better, and get on with it.

Also, if you are performing, say, for an audience, and you make a flaw, you make it and it's over. Gone. Either they heard it or they didn't. Maybe they care, maybe they don't. But if you record, then the flaw is there each and every time you listen. And it doesn't get better. And they you can beat yourself up thinking, well, why didn't I just record again? But when I do that, I make another mistake in a different place.

Recording, as we do here, sets the bar high.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

Top
#1375905 - 02/16/10 07:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: ten left thumbs]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs

Recording, as we do here, sets the bar high.


Quite true. But often I don't even care what people think of my playing. As you know, Jazz is considered esoteric anyway -- too many notes, too much dissonance -- that kind of thing. So I expect that. In recitals, many don't even bother to listen. I don't take it personally.

I'm not focused on that as much as the actual faults. You see, my teacher is quick to point out my flaws to me (in a nice way of course), so I know I'm not imagining it.

Last night, I had the the drum track set on 220bpm and then I just improvised over that. I lost the form so many times that I thought I was hopeless.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1375953 - 02/16/10 08:30 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Jazzwee,

I may have some advice for you. It's on page 273 bullet 4 of metaphors for the musicians.

Seriously, first of all, I think you took this difficult tune at a very challenging tempo. As you speed things up, space gets narrower, that's just tempo, but it's there. To me, your phrasing was much better than it was a few months ago. I mean I could clearly hear a beginning and an end to each phrase.
I think your flow was very good, and your swing is actually much improved. At time I heard Chick, at times Bill. Your influence is getting more clear cut now.

Your left hand was smooth. In fact, the only part that bothered me was the first bar, I don't care for the call / response effect. Works well on AL, not so much on Stella. I would have like void just as much. Maybe the way I hear the tune. But as early as the 2nd bar, you start really burning. Your left hand btw was nice and light. Your touch has gotten better. You started including a lot more feeling in your playing as well, softer moments, higher moments.

Clearly a success.
Take care.

Top
#1376105 - 02/16/10 11:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: knotty
Jazzwee,

I may have some advice for you. It's on page 273 bullet 4 of metaphors for the musicians.

Seriously, first of all, I think you took this difficult tune at a very challenging tempo. As you speed things up, space gets narrower, that's just tempo, but it's there. To me, your phrasing was much better than it was a few months ago. I mean I could clearly hear a beginning and an end to each phrase.
I think your flow was very good, and your swing is actually much improved. At time I heard Chick, at times Bill. Your influence is getting more clear cut now.

Your left hand was smooth. In fact, the only part that bothered me was the first bar, I don't care for the call / response effect. Works well on AL, not so much on Stella. I would have like void just as much. Maybe the way I hear the tune. But as early as the 2nd bar, you start really burning. Your left hand btw was nice and light. Your touch has gotten better. You started including a lot more feeling in your playing as well, softer moments, higher moments.

Clearly a success.
Take care.



Love the analysis Knotty! I hated the beginning. What I was planning on doing was play rubato at first then go to swing. But I couldn't make up my mind when and my indecision was affecting everything, from tempo to form. I had that same indecision at the end and really messed me up. Then in the middle, I could hear my LH wavering in the tempo. Hated that. Some sixteenth lines sounded forced. Many lines needed to be broken up because they crossed the barline but didn't resolve.

If I just stuck to swing, the tempo itself was not fast. I tried playing it again just a moment ago and just played it in swing at 150bpm. And even with sixteenths (but not too much) it sounded much better. So looking back, it was the rubato thing that really ruined it. There's no count at the beginning so the tempo was no clearly established in my head.

I'm going play this for my teacher in a couple of days and we'll see what he says.

BTW - after continuously working on Chick stuff (Matrix) daily, I'm finding that some of the moves are starting to show up in my playing. Just today, I was comfortable doing sudden half-step up modulations. Keys like B and F# are beginning to feel like Bb and Eb. I'm supposed to play Matrix again at my lesson so we shall see. It's also a technique builder and maybe it will in fact build a little bit of a Chick sound. Glad you even noticed (not consciously done).
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1384801 - 02/28/10 01:16 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Hi Jazzwee,

Time for an update.

I have been working from Bert Ligon's book "Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony".

I recorded a short sample of an exercise. You will hear me singing those "Doo Bah's" in the background. I have the metronome set to 60 clicking on 2 and 4. Ligon's book emphasizes those chord tones on down beats.

http://www.box.net/shared/seq2b62tdi

I need feedback, please. smile

Barb
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1385040 - 02/28/10 07:20 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Swingin' Barb]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Barb, my box.net is not popping up so bear with me...I haven't listened to it yet.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1385045 - 02/28/10 07:25 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Custard Apple -- if you don't mind, I'll resume answering your question on 2 & 4 here.

Originally Posted By: custard apple
JW: On swing, I am now pretty much resolved I want to learn the 2 4 way. I’m prepared to unlearn the 1 3 way and go back to Square 1. I don’t care how long it takes.


I was concerned about your quote since I wasn't sure you understood what I said here:

Originally Posted By: jazzwee
CA, Downbeats are 1,2,3,4. Upbeats are +. In the context of our discussion of swing think always of 8 notes. I think you're all confused by the 2 and 4 and are trying to connect two separate concepts.

So in a bar | 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

2 & 4 are METRONOME playing concepts. You do not play with a band with a rhythm section that quiets down on 1 & 3 right? Any Jazz record you listen to, everyone is playing all the downbeats. 1, 2, 3, 4. If you're using a drum track instead, there would be no reference to 2 & 4.

The idea of setting the metronome to 2 & 4 (which is not a universal opinion BTW), is for you to IMAGINE 1 and 3 to still exist but YOU set where it occurs in time. So there's still 4 downbeats but only 2 are defined by the metronome. The ability to discern where 1 and 3 are in this example is called "SUBDIVIDING". Having the ability to gauge where the missing beats are in relation to your rhythm source develops your sense of time.

Anything good for your time is good for swing.

Now why would you guess that some Jazz guy said "set your metronome to 2 & 4" instead of "1 and 3". I think putting the metronome on certain beats makes those beats louder than the ones and suggest where the backbeat is. So Rock for example has a strong 1 and 3 backbeat. So going with 2 & 4 lessens the impact on Beat 1. So aside from the fact that 2 & 4 lessens the focus on beat 1, don't get caught up with that. Jazz phrases don't start at beat 1 quite often. Swing is defined mostly by a stream of eighth notes. And they can start and stop anywhere in a bar. A lot of beginners start their phrases on beat 1 and maybe this is where 2 & 4 helps you to stop thinking that way. Maybe.



2 & 4 is a way of setting a metronome. Although it influences swing (by not focusing on Beat 1), it is not swing by itself. So I'm not sure what you mean by unlearning the 1 & 3 way. It may not matter, as long as you put accents on those upbeats...
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1385057 - 02/28/10 07:43 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Back to you Barb, Box net working now.

First of all with the improved legato, the swing sounds better! What we've talked about constantly and I harp upon is the swing ratio, which still leans to the extreme side of the spectrum. The 2:1 ratio or triplet feel.

From listening and even tracking the swing of guys like Wynton Kelly on a Wave spectrum, I'm seeing that the ratio of hard swingers go from 1.5:1 to the straight swingers at near 1:1. Yet beginners often hover at 2:1, which is not the range where authentic swing lies.

I've often wondered why this was and I think I have a theory. My theory is that beginners will play at too slow a tempo to do swing. Often starting at 100bpm.

When I first started, I focused on the 120-150bpm area so maybe that prevented me from doing the 2:1 (which some people refer to as "hokey swing" or I just refer to as triplet feel). If you play more at 150bpm even with just short eighth note phrases, it's actually pretty hard to maintain 2:1. The higher you go, it requires quite a bit of technique to play like that. But like I said, a more realistic swing ratio is 1.5:1 or less and focus on upbeat accents more.

At 100 bpm, it's close to ballad tempo. So jazz players will lean towards triplet eighths and sixteenths already. If you swung at this tempo, I realize it will actually be close to 2:1. But that is rarely done. It doesn't sound good. (Lawrence Welk would probably do it though...).

So I think experience at bringing up swing to the 150bpm tempo will tend to solve a lot of overswinging issues. That is my theory.

My other suggestion is to play this completely straight and use upbeat accents only (really make the accent differences extreme in upbeat vs downbeat).

Once you know where it sounds straight, and the other extreme, strive to play in the middle area of the range. I kid you not that my teacher would actually stop me from doing an extreme swing, even at the Bill Evans ratio (which is probably in the 1.5:1 range when he does it).

I'm just passing the same advice I got. Concentrate on upbeat accents and straighten it more.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1385072 - 02/28/10 07:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
BTW - since I hear reference often to our friend 7notemode's video on swing, let me just post a Youtube of him playing How High the Moon at a fairly slow tempo and with lots of eighth notes.

http://www.youtube.com/user/7notemode?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/5/K3JTH458b1k

He does exactly what I say here. His swing is natural and leans towards the straighter side of things and heavy on upbeat accents. In fact listen to 7notemode at 3:09, it is that same very heavy upbeat accent with straight eights (dragged) that I refer to in Herbie Hancock's playing. That's what's often done to emphasize the swing, rather than a change in the ratio itself.

I'm just making sure no one misunderstands or assumes I'm saying anything differently than 7Notemode.

I probably play a straighter swing than 7notemode generally, only because I'm more into Modern Jazz. But that difference is slight.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1385123 - 02/28/10 09:13 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Jazzwee - Thank you for the excellent feedback. Yes, I need to sneak up that metronome a bit at a time. And get those accents back in.

I agree in that I don't want to sound like Lawrence Welk. AARRGGGHHHH!!!!!

7notemodes' Youtube link is wonderful. That is how I want to sound. smile

Thank you
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1385392 - 03/01/10 09:14 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
So I think experience at bringing up swing to the 150bpm tempo will tend to solve a lot of overswinging issues. That is my theory.

I woke up brave this morning. I decided to not inch up the speed bit by bit. I set my Band in a Box group to 150 bpm. I am playing right hand only. I had to take out the left hand at this speed.

What do your ears hear? I am concentrating on those accents. Is the ratio at 1:1? I was mouthing the "Doo Bah" sounds hoping to NOT be at 1:1. I fear I may have lost some legato in the process. This is a never ending battle!

http://www.box.net/shared/p15cpf9grj

Thank you for your help.

Barb
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1385634 - 03/01/10 02:17 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Swingin' Barb]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Barb, I think my theory is RIGHT! smile

That's a whole different feel there and it's MUCH MUCH BETTER! The ratio is closer to the desirable range. You can go a little either way from here but you've hit the sweet spot. Pretty amazing actually. This is something I'll remember forever: "Beginners -- don't swing at too slow a tempo".

Yes, more accents and more legato. Legato is harder at this tempo but you need it to be very solid until the 200bpm range when it's very hard to do. Listen to that 7notemode section I highlighted at 3:09 earlier. Practice that kind of extreme level of extreme accent ranges. As TLT noted for us, it's not just that you accent the upbeat, you need to soften the downbeat. The more extreme the accent differences, the higher the swing feel.

BTW your recording is not 1:1 but it's close to it. There's still swing and it will be enhanced with added accents. With the accents it will feel like a harder swing. If you want to really feel a harder swing, switch to maybe 135bpm. Really, it's the tempo that decides the swing. There's a natural limit to how you can do that long-short thing. So that's how swing would normally be decided. A Duke Ellington type of playing would be in that 135bpm range.

I was just listening to Wynton Kelly on the radio earlier and he was playing pretty straight. You know he can swing pretty hard. But at the faster tempos, you have to straighten out. That's expected.


Great work and understanding!
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1385662 - 03/01/10 02:46 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Thanks Jazzwee. I just love being part of a scientific experiment. Glad I proved your theory works.

thumb to you!

Now I just have to get my slow ballad playing fingers used to playing at brisker tempos.

The journey happily continues. smile
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1385826 - 03/01/10 06:10 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Swingin' Barb]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1310
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Ahh slow tempos. Tricky, easy to play to much.
Thought I could share a tune (Beatrice by Sam Rivers) on the subject of playing slow, it's from a dinner gig I did with my trio (test-running a new basist). Get it here.
_________________________
I never play anything the same way once.

Top
#1385835 - 03/01/10 06:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: chrisbell]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Ahh slow tempos. Tricky, easy to play to much.
Thought I could share a tune (Beatrice by Sam Rivers) on the subject of playing slow, it's from a dinner gig I did with my trio (test-running a new basist). Get it here.


Nice Chris! It's great to finally hear you play. This is the first I think. I loved it. It's almost what I expected considering your influences.

BTW - you proved my point again. Here you are at a slow tempo and not playing eighth notes - those were triplet eights or sixteenths, right?
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1385877 - 03/01/10 07:25 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1310
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Thank you, and thanks for listening.

Hmmm, yes I believe you're correct. Maybe some eighth notes when i play the melody.
I don't really keep check of my playing. smile
(though I am forcing myself to listen to the whole gig this night, digging the good notes as well as going arrrggghhh over the bum notes (or rather; the appropriate ones).
It's important to dig the good ones. Never forget that.
_________________________
I never play anything the same way once.

Top
#1387973 - 03/04/10 10:37 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: chrisbell]
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Chris – Welcome back. I enjoyed listening to your dinner gig music. I wish I could have been there to hear you play live.

Jazzwee – thanks for reminding me about Wynton Kelly. I decided to listen to some of his solos that I had downloaded a while back. I fell in love with one and spent the greater part of Tuesday transcribing the first 28 seconds of his solo (12 measures worth.)

I spent a good deal of time yesterday working up the first five measures. I finally memorized it today and recorded it with BIAB at 100 bpm.

A few seconds after you hear me play you will hear Wynton playing the same 5 measures. I have a long way to go here in trying to sound like him. OH WOW! He can really, really swing. He sounds so relaxed. He is my new hero. 3hearts

I do need a tempo check. Do you think he and I are at the same speed?

http://www.box.net/shared/4fccbuvay8
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
Page 90 of 124 < 1 2 ... 88 89 90 91 92 ... 123 124 >

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
137 registered (Almaviva, accordeur, alex-kid, 48 invisible), 1375 Guests and 24 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74236 Members
42 Forums
153564 Topics
2250599 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Piano Science
by venice1
04/18/14 09:59 PM
MP7 vs MP11: only 6 differences?
by Marko in Boston
04/18/14 09:08 PM
the conclusion on weighted keys and developing technique
by B.Petrovic
04/18/14 09:02 PM
song i wrote about a coffee shop
by jedplays
04/18/14 08:50 PM
song i wrote. people in clubs love it
by jedplays
04/18/14 08:48 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission