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#1229023 - 07/09/09 05:02 PM I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
And why?

Is it their status?

That the teacher has concert performance qualifications?

Teaches at a University?

Teaches at a Top Rate Music/Piano University?

Has so many good pianists interested in lessons that they can pick and choose, so to help select that their price goes up?



Just what makes a teacher worth $100 an hour? $150 an hour, $200 an hour, etc?

And...

Might having such a teacher be advantagious as a coach on a monthly one hour lesson?

Have you paid that?

And did you find that it was worth it?


And what is the standard rate for a college prof?

A professional concert pianist's hourly teaching rate?

Who of you take lessons from such? Why? and what do you get out of your lessons? Do you talk about your teaching and ask advice as well?







_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1229028 - 07/09/09 05:11 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13789
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Teachers who charge that kind of money have a proven track record of high student achievement, usually as measured by competition success and admittance into prestigious festivals and university/conservatory programs.

There is also the matter of economics - supply and demand, and geography. It's fairly easy to charge $100 in Manhattan because you'd have to charge that much in order to pay the rent and a lot of people who live in Manhattan can afford it. If you lived in Manhattan, KS, however, it would be a different story. laugh
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#1229031 - 07/09/09 05:14 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
r1card0 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 64
Loc: Mexico City
That's just insane. I remember paying like $10 each hour when I went to piano lessons.

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#1229034 - 07/09/09 05:19 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: r1card0]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Anyone can charge $100 an hour. The question is, will they get it? The teacher would probably have to be a specialist of some kind to justify that kind of rate when the going rate for most teachers is around $40-$60 per hour.
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#1229035 - 07/09/09 05:20 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Teachers who charge that kind of money have a proven track record of high student achievement, usually as measured by competition success and admittance into prestigious festivals and university/conservatory programs.

There is also the matter of economics - supply and demand, and geography. It's fairly easy to charge $100 in Manhattan because you'd have to charge that much in order to pay the rent and a lot of people who live in Manhattan can afford it. If you lived in Manhattan, KS, however, it would be a different story. laugh


So....

When would the KS person pay that? and why?

Suppose this person is not geared towards "admittance into prestigious festivals and university/conservatory programs"?

What would make the teacher worth that cost?]

And I am sure that some do, and are worth it.

My suggestion for this topic would be who and why?
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1229066 - 07/09/09 07:05 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
My recent lessons with Jane Tan were over $100/hr, and they were worth every penny. She brought to the lesson far more than the usual teacher, opened my ears to hearing things I never heard before. Of all the masterclass teachers my students have had, none compared with Jane. Now I am teaching what I learned to my students, and you can hear the difference in their playing, although parents may never know why.

In general, my life experiences have taught me that you get what you pay for, and often paying more is cheaper in the long run. Of course, you must make certain you're getting what is being advertised.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1229067 - 07/09/09 07:05 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Lilylady,

You might want to ask PW's own Jeffrey Biegel. He charges $125 an hour. And that for an online skype lesson. More info at http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
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#1229143 - 07/09/09 09:52 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: eweiss]
Gary D. Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4801
Loc: South Florida
Don't forget that good business sense and a flair for self-promotion will allow some people to charge much more and get it.

This may or may not mean that paying more gets you more.

The idea that "you get what you pay for" is sometimes not far from "a sucker is born every minute".

I'm not saying that some people who charge a huge amount per hour do not deserve it. But talent is a gift, and so is self-promotion. They don't always exist in the same person.

Remember if you charge a great deal per hour and come up with a way of getting new people to replace the old ones as soon as they realize they have gotten little or nothing, you can earn a great deal while teaching little or nothing.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1229148 - 07/09/09 10:00 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1081
Loc: California


The teacher I interviewed who charges $100 an hour teaches at a very highly respected Catholic college. He's the accompaniest for a very good chorus. He gives seminars for students which are evidently very successful. He offered a complimentary lesson, which I didn't take, because the commute was just too far. He's a phenomenal pianist, I've heard him play. He's a very charismatic and bright man, and I suspect he's quite insightful. He also gives two scholarships a year.

The teacher whom I paid $75 an hour to came to my home. He has written a book and performed in concerts. He helped me more in 2 months of lessons, than I got from the class piano teachers at our junior college in 2 years. I learned to play 2 pieces I had been struggling with nearly perfectly in those 2 months. He would have been worth more.

I'd rather pay someone more and have lessons every 2 weeks.

What I want in a teacher is first of all an understanding of safe and ergonomic playing, secondly passion, real passion, for music, thirdly the ability to play beautifully, fourth the ability to teach me to play well. I don't do the regular lesson routine with scales, chords, etc...I pick a piece to work on, and have the teacher help me play it beautifully.
The last teacher I had gave me techniques to smooth over rough spots....there were never exercises just for the purpose of doing them, although he did give me a finger strenghtening exercise.

I guess eventually I'll get an acoustic piano and start taking lessons again.





Edited by Nikalette (07/09/09 10:02 PM)

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#1229270 - 07/10/09 02:01 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: eweiss]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Lilylady,

You might want to ask PW's own Jeffrey Biegel. He charges $125 an hour. And that for an online skype lesson. More info at http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html
For an on-line lesson I find that over the top - from nearly anybody.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1229295 - 07/10/09 03:27 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2911
Loc: UK.
Oh, we're talking about teachers!!

I could think of plenty of professionals who charge $100 an hour.

Not piano teachers though.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#1229351 - 07/10/09 08:13 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: eweiss]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Lilylady,

You might want to ask PW's own Jeffrey Biegel. He charges $125 an hour. And that for an online skype lesson. More info at http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html


It was reading about Jeffrey that made me start wondering about this.

Truth be told, $100 plus for lessons would be quite a hardship for me. No one in my area that I know of for private lessons unless I could maybe travel into Boston.

I would love to participate in more Master Classes as well.

What might those who teach those, charge?
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1229352 - 07/10/09 08:15 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Chris H.]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: Chris H.
Oh, we're talking about teachers!!

I could think of plenty of professionals who charge $100 an hour.

Not piano teachers though.


CHRIS!!!!

ha
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1229354 - 07/10/09 08:25 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
lalakeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 286
Loc: Chicago 'burbs
Chris, I know what you mean--my plumber charges over $100 per hour.

smile
_________________________
Private piano & voice teacher for over 20 years; currently also working as a pipe organist for 3 area churches; sing in a Chicago-area acappella chamber choir

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#1229377 - 07/10/09 09:12 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lalakeys]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
The plumber does not come by weekly, Lala, does he?
laugh laugh
In Manhattan where I reside, quite a few teachers charge $100/hour and up especially if they are Juilliard graduates. We are not talking necessarily about people with great teaching experience and a significant track record /reputation. Those will charge anywhere between more than $100 to much much more (eg $250 per hour)

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#1229394 - 07/10/09 09:43 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Andromaque]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5586
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
Jeffrey's rate is considered quite reasonable for someone at his level.

There are a number of teachers who charge more, some considerably more.

Unless money is really no object, new students just starting out aren't likely to be paying that kind of money.

Some students opt to supplement there regular lessons with occassional lessons from teachers like Jeffrey.

You are paying not only for their knowledge, but also their experience. A professional concert pianist/recording artist/composer/professor who has been performing (and studying) for many years has a wealth of first-hand knowledge.

Talk to Matt and his teacher about the "test" lesson with Jeffrey, and read the comments above in this thread from people who have taken lessons from teachers at this level.

In my own case (not being an accomplished pianist), I took flying lessons from an instructor who had 50 years experience flying (all types of aircraft, including fighter jets) and who specialized in working with commercial pilots.

I sought him out because I wanted to benefit from his experience and knowledge.
Any good flight instructor would have been ok to teach me, but he was amazing (and cost a bit more than the average).
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#1229588 - 07/10/09 02:42 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Piano World]
musiclady Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Some teachers of instruments other than piano charge over $100/hour!

Though most teachers I think who charge over $100/hour have huge egos, and don't care about what a reasonable person might be willing to pay. I would not pay $100/hour when there are plenty of teachers who charge respectable, but not ridiculous fees. Here most teachers are $50-$80 an hour, especially wind instrument teachers. (for the record, I charge about $60/hour, and I offer a choice of lesson lengths, lots of nice studio extras (like recording students on audio and/or video, which video recordings are necessary for a couple of career-minded students I have now, and then the result I produce consistently...but having been on the other side before, for me when I first started lessons $60/hour was out of reach.

Meri
_________________________
Clarinet and Piano Teacher based out of Toronto, Canada.Web: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com

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#1229592 - 07/10/09 02:49 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lalakeys]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2911
Loc: UK.
Originally Posted By: lalakeys
Chris, I know what you mean--my plumber charges over $100 per hour.

smile


Maybe we could work like a plumber.

I would sign you up for a weeks intensive course. It goes without saying that I would show up late. Then when I arrive I would inform you that your piano no longer meets current regulations and you need a new one. I am happy to arrange that for a fee. When I am done I will land you with a bill for $10000!
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#1229610 - 07/10/09 03:31 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Chris H.]
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 841
And as with plumbers' customers, they'd get to see more bum than they planned on!

Musiclady: As for having a big ego to charge $100 per hour, I don't think it's a prerequisite. You DO need to understand your market. And why should you care what a reasonable person would pay? North America's economy is based on what unreasonable people will pay for things. For instance David Suzuki charges a fee to tell people obvious things you can do to save the planet which he himself doesn't do as he's jet-setting around the world. The more unreasonable your client, the better!

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#1229635 - 07/10/09 04:11 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Piano World]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Piano World

In my own case (not being an accomplished pianist), I took flying lessons from an instructor who had 50 years experience flying (all types of aircraft, including fighter jets) and who specialized in working with commercial pilots.
Online!?
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
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#1229652 - 07/10/09 04:29 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: r1card0]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1081
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: r1card0
That's just insane. I remember paying like $10 each hour when I went to piano lessons.


I remember when it cost a dime to ride the bus in San Francisco. It also cost $350 to rent a 2 story, 3 bedroom luxury flat. And my parents income was $1100/month which was considered very high in those days.

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#1229654 - 07/10/09 04:31 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1081
Loc: California
I think that a lot of piano teachers here don't have a completely steady income. Students start, stop, take lessons less frequently, etc...

Perhaps a teacher could charge a monthly rate, paid in advance, for weekly lessons, and a higher rate for biweekly or consulation.

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#1229678 - 07/10/09 05:02 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
lilylady, the responses, which for the most part skirt the questions you originally asked, got me to wondering why you asked them in the first place?

Many people make the assumption that if you're charging $150/hr, your earning $6,000/wk, $300,000/yr. Seldom do specialists work a straight 40 hr week. They might be lucky if they can schedule 15 or 20 hrs of work per week on average, and work 40 or so weeks a year.

We know, of course, that an hourly fee is not indicative of the individual's net income. Overhead must be accounted for, plus taxes, which in the USA on self-employed, are approaching 50%. Argh.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1229681 - 07/10/09 05:05 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Nikalette]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
I remember when it cost a dime to ride the bus in San Francisco. It also cost $350 to rent a 2 story, 3 bedroom luxury flat. And my parents income was $1100/month which was considered very high in those days.


I remember when my gross was under $500/mo and I had a wife and two children, rent, groceries, etc. Gas was less than 30 cents a gallon and we paid $2,950 for our first new car.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1229686 - 07/10/09 05:15 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
I remember when it cost a dime to ride the bus in San Francisco. It also cost $350 to rent a 2 story, 3 bedroom luxury flat. And my parents income was $1100/month which was considered very high in those days.


I remember when my gross was under $500/mo and I had a wife and two children, rent, groceries, etc. Gas was less than 30 cents a gallon and we paid $2,950 for our first new car.


Gee, John, you must be ancient! smile
_________________________
B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
M.M., Piano

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#1229694 - 07/10/09 05:33 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Minniemay]
Varcon Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1931
Loc: Mount Vernon, Georgia 30445
I've had some wonderful teachers who charged reasonable fees for the time and was told by one whose teachers included Rosenthal, Hofman, Gallico, Siloti, Laros, and others that he paid
$100 for some of them and that Mrs. Ferguson (Tausig, Joseffy, William Mason, Berlin Conservatory) was better than all of them but charged a reasonable fee.

Robert McDowell, when I went to Chicago to meet Rudolph Ganz, told me that many took lessons from him to have Ganz's name on their 'resume' as there was a time when the teacher's name with whom you studied in your bio might sway students to study with you.

I found that a couple of big names were really useless as teachers but they were 'artist teachers.' Some of the masterclasses I've attended were a waste of time. One expects to leave with something and, for the most part, I didn't.

And the observation that locality has a lot to do with charges is correct. Many wonderfully qualified teachers are in small populated areas and the demand isn't that great. In the larger cities fees are higher. Reputation, ability, demand--all play a part in charging fees.


Edited by Varcon (07/10/09 05:35 PM)

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#1229696 - 07/10/09 05:35 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5484
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
I remember when my gross was under $500/mo and I had a wife and two children, rent, groceries, etc. Gas was less than 30 cents a gallon and we paid $2,950 for our first new car.


I remember those dollar movie places where I can go and watch second-run movies in theaters for a dollar. Regular theaters charged $3.50 for Tuesday bargain matinees. The dollar theaters are closed now, and the same regular theaters charge $7 for matinees, $10 for evening shows.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1229727 - 07/10/09 07:04 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Minniemay]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7368
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Minniemay
Gee, John, you must be ancient! smile


There are days I feel that way!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1229745 - 07/10/09 08:02 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Gary D. Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4801
Loc: South Florida
John, for me the feeling of being "ancient" comes from having vivid memories of things my students are learning in history class. smile

I would hate to think that people who know that I am a teacher would assume that if another teacher charges 10 times what I charge, that by itself means that the other teacher is better. I have never been a good business person, and I loath self-promotion. I don't think what I earn is at all an accurate indication of my value as a teacher.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1229756 - 07/10/09 08:39 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Gary D.]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19339
Loc: New York City
In Manhattan, many doctors make $1000 an hour before expenses.

I don't think 99+% of the tennis players in the world would benefit much from a lesson from Roger Federer(even though I think he is the best and most articulate player of all time). In the same way, I don't think most pianists would benefit from a teacher who taught at some major conservatory. That kind of teacher could easily have little training or experience teaching amateurs. Of course, there are exceptions.


Edited by pianoloverus (07/10/09 08:50 PM)

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