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#1232480 - 07/16/09 01:35 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
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Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
When I teach I am sometimes crotched below the student looking up (not sure why), sometimes playing a hand for them, sometimes having them stood up doing physical exercises, sometimes clapping together or just singing along. You can do all this?
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#1232513 - 07/16/09 02:21 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
I tell students to count out looud, subdivide, sing as they play to create the long line and maintain better rhythm from the inside out. The things you mention can be done in a studio, but I wouldn't necessarily have to do those things in a Skype lesson. The challenge in a Skype lesson is that the teacher isn't on top of the student clapping or singing or banging out the rhythm. Rather, the student feels compelled to be a better student and be 'on the ball' and have the best possible rhythm simply because the teacher is not there to instill the rhythm from the 'outside in'. I typically teach pianists on the highest level, but teaching via Skype can be equally rewarding on any level. After a minute or two, there is a sense of being in the same room, and there is no separation.
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#1232523 - 07/16/09 02:41 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
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Originally Posted By: JBiegel
The challenge in a Skype lesson is that the teacher isn't on top of the student clapping or singing or banging out the rhythm. Rather, the student feels compelled to be a better student and be 'on the ball' and have the best possible rhythm simply because the teacher is not there to instill the rhythm from the 'outside in'.
Oh dear, in other words limited interaction.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1232524 - 07/16/09 02:43 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keystring Online   content
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Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11590
Loc: Canada
And the student seeing you?

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#1232529 - 07/16/09 02:49 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13764
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Not limited, just different. Some teachers are more physical than others, and some are content - and just as effective - sitting in a chair a few feet away.

It also depends on the student. Some need a physical connection with the teacher and find a hands-on approach very enlightning. Others would rather not be touched and prefer to listen and observe first, then try themselves.

Jeffrey obviously feels he can be an effective teacher without having a physical presence, while kbk feels he can be most effective with a more "hands-on" approach.

In other words, it has little to do with Skype, and much more to do with the individual students' and teachers' learning and teaching styles.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1232531 - 07/16/09 02:53 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
So, Jeff sits in a chair a few feet away when he teaches?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1232548 - 07/16/09 03:36 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
I agree with Kreisler, it depends on the students perception.

I took a mini lesson from Jeffrey myself and did not find any problem with it being done via Skype. Matt and Sam were both happy with their lessons, expressing a desire to continue.

If you already have your mind made up it won't work, it probably isn't for you.

BTW, the following is from a CD I received from Sam in Singapore (it came in while I was traveling). It shows the students perspective pretty well...

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#1232559 - 07/16/09 04:03 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Piano World]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
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Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Very impressive. As I said earlier, it may do for interpretation.
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#1232560 - 07/16/09 04:08 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13764
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
So, Jeff sits in a chair a few feet away when he teaches?


I don't know about Jeff, but many teachers do. And a great many people learn a great deal in masterclasses, where they don't have any direct communication with the teacher at all and simply observe from 10-25 feet away.

In a lot of ways, a Skype lesson is like watching yourself have a masterclass with Jeffrey Biegel.

By the way - if you're out there listening, Jeff - I had a great idea for you. You should do a presentation on your Sonatina books. Find a studio teacher who has several students working on the sonatina literature - have the kids raise $250 and do a Skype-masterclass where you teach, discuss, and demonstrate some of the literature in the collection you edited. I think the kids would really enjoy meeting the editor of their book, and it'd be a good way to make some connections around the country. (I might pitch the idea to our local association at their August meeting - maybe the nearby music store could host it. Send me a message if you're interested and I'll see what I can do to gauge interest around here...)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1232565 - 07/16/09 04:13 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Great idea, Kreisler--feel free to propose that--I would be happy to do so!
Thanks for posting Sam's video--I will be interested to see it!
_________________________
www.jeffreybiegel.com

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#1232569 - 07/16/09 04:24 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Hey--video with Sam is nice. He improved greatly during the Skype session. As you can see, I say the same things via Skype as I do in lessons in the same room. The concepts don't change--just the medium with which we transcend these traditions of teaching. Don't you think Chopin would be happy?
_________________________
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#1232574 - 07/16/09 04:41 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
For my part, my reaction is very strong, I don't like this video at all. I find it strange.

Rostropovich tells the story of when he met Casals. Casals took him into a bedroom and sat down with his cello resting between Rostropovich's feet. And he played the first Bach suite, one line at a time, looking straight into Rostropovich's eyes and examining every reaction. Imagine how strong a cello is, at such an intimate distance. The vibrations passing into your feet, every time Casals --- eh, Casals! -- comes back to that G and grinds it out.

You might ask: where did I hear this story. Rostropovich didn't tell this to me, it's on a video. A video? Ah, that serves to teach something then.

To me, it teaches that if you want to really learn something about your instrument, find your Casals and get real, real close.

In this video, it is clear that the teacher is good, and that he transmits something to the student.

But he can't transmit that vibration.

I have no doubt, however, that there will only be more teaching done in this fashion.

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#1232576 - 07/16/09 04:46 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Find a studio teacher who has several students working on the sonatina literature - have the kids raise $250 and do a Skype-masterclass where you teach, discuss, and demonstrate some of the literature in the collection you edited.


I don't like that idea at all.

But if you're passing near Andorra, Jeffrey Biegel, and you want to stop by and pass an afternoon with my daughter or with a group of piano students, I'll make it possible.


Edited by landorrano (07/16/09 04:47 PM)

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#1232578 - 07/16/09 04:50 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
where is Andorra?
PS--if you had heard Sam when he first played the Ballade, you would see and hear the transformation--he did a wonderful job from the earliest part of that lesson.
_________________________
www.jeffreybiegel.com

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#1232579 - 07/16/09 04:51 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
--keep in mind--this teaching is for those who are on a very high level of playing and know to whom they want to bring these pieces to get them on the performance level--not really for kids--JB
_________________________
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#1232581 - 07/16/09 04:53 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1785
Loc: Central TX
For Mac heads out there, you can also use ichat with your built in isight cams right out of the box. It even supports having multiple participants (up to 4 iirc).

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#1232582 - 07/16/09 04:55 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Andorra is where Charlemagne stopped off to buy cheap cigarettes and alcohol after driving out the Moors.

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#1232583 - 07/16/09 04:57 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
That's a cute story! Yes, indeed--I will stop by to coach your daughter. But bear in mind, I can teach her via Skype if the plane ticket is too costly and she is preparing for some big events.
_________________________
www.jeffreybiegel.com

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#1232590 - 07/16/09 05:03 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Plane ticket? There's no airport here!

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#1232593 - 07/16/09 05:18 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Hope you have a great teacher there, otherwise, you're stuck with me and Skype, my friend.


Edited by JBiegel (07/16/09 05:19 PM)
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#1234240 - 07/20/09 12:50 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
I received a lovely message at Facebook from the great musician William Ross, who has done a great amount of work with Barbra Streisand. He viewed the Skype lessons and found the improvements of 'Sam' staggering. I am indeed happy to receive Bill's enodorsement:

"I just watched your Skype teaching with Sam. That is absolutely fantastic! So great Jeffrey. I could hear immediately the difference in sound when you got Sam to focus on his pinky finger and relax the thumb. Beautiful."


Edited by JBiegel (07/20/09 12:51 PM)
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#1234285 - 07/20/09 02:09 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Ah yes, Babara Streisand. Didn't you just love her Piano Concerto No. 1 Op. 11?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1234324 - 07/20/09 03:24 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
I would dare say that anyone who gets the opportunity to work with Barbra Streisand, who is very detailed and picky about everything, as musicians tend to be, I salute. Bill is a legend in his industry and a very respected musician. I value his words greatly.
_________________________
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#1234357 - 07/20/09 04:23 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Could a person ask exactly how much more of this thread do you need to blow this trumpet of yours?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1234360 - 07/20/09 04:31 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17749
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
keyboardklutz, do you really want people to have the kind of impression of you that they're going to get from your comments on this thread?

JBiegel, if I were an aspiring professional pianist, I wouldn't hesitate to pay a lot of money to have a Skype lesson with you or some other skilled teacher. It seems to me a very useful model for advanced students, especially students who may live in an area of the country where it's hard to find advanced teachers.
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#1234363 - 07/20/09 04:36 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5571
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Could a person ask exactly how much more of this thread do you need to blow this trumpet of yours?


Probably about as many times as you make inane remarks without any substantiation.

At least Jeffrey is trying to provide the facts that support what some of us have already observed for ourselves.

I'd prefer that to your constant efforts to shoot down the entire process without giving it a chance, as evidenced by your replies throughout this thread...

Originally Posted By: eweiss
Lilylady,

You might want to ask PW's own Jeffrey Biegel. He charges $125 an hour. And that for an online skype lesson. More info at http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html

keyboardklutz:
For an on-line lesson I find that over the top - from nearly anybody.


Originally Posted By: Piano World

In my own case (not being an accomplished pianist), I took flying lessons from an instructor who had 50 years experience flying (all types of aircraft, including fighter jets) and who specialized in working with commercial pilots.

keyboardklutz:
Online!?


Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
I sense an underlying murmur of disapproval for teachers receiving $100 per hour or more. I wonder how many have calculated what a classroom teacher or college professor receives per teaching hour, say an individual with 20 or more years of experience. Note, not what they get paid per hour of work, but per hour of teaching. Obviously, these are generally group lesson situations, so the cost is shared by many.

keyboardklutz:
No murmuring here, that's a perfecly acceptable price for a good teacher. It's just the Skype thing - how ever good the intentions, I can't see the student getting their money's worth.

keyboardklutz:
There are a million and one things that need doing to ensure an effortless technique. Lesson after lesson some students never get it. Interpretation you could certainly manage over the net but the rest?


Originally Posted By: JBiegel
Be it in a studio or online, anything can be taught if it is done correctly. The apparatus changes, but the lesson remains the same.

keyboardklutz:
Sorry, no way I can go with that one.

Originally Posted By: JBiegel
The challenge in a Skype lesson is that the teacher isn't on top of the student clapping or singing or banging out the rhythm. Rather, the student feels compelled to be a better student and be 'on the ball' and have the best possible rhythm simply because the teacher is not there to instill the rhythm from the 'outside in'.

keyboardklutz:
Oh dear, in other words limited interaction.

Keyboardklutz:
So, Jeff sits in a chair a few feet away when he teaches?

keyboardklutz:
Ah yes, Babara Streisand. Didn't you just love her Piano Concerto No. 1 Op. 11?

keyboardklutz:
Could a person ask exactly how much more of this thread do you need to blow this trumpet of yours?
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#1234376 - 07/20/09 04:49 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Monica K.]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
It seems to me a very useful model for advanced students, especially students who may live in an area of the country where it's hard to find advanced teachers.
If there is somewhere like that then yes I agree. Otherwise a Skype lesson could only be second best, and a very poor second at that. I refuse to accept that in anyway it is the future. Obviously Jeff's free to sell whatever he wishes here and people are also free to make up there own mind about it.

Frank, so you don't find flying lessons over the net funny?
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
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#1234382 - 07/20/09 05:05 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Ah yes, Babara Streisand. Didn't you just love her Piano Concerto No. 1 Op. 11?

Snarky,* aren't we?

*1 : crotchety, snappish
*2 : sarcastic, impertinent, or irreverent in tone or manner
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#1234496 - 07/20/09 08:45 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Piano World]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1439
Loc: Australia
As an interested Skype user, I found the YouTube video, to be excellent. Thanks for sharing it.

Both teacher, and student, appeared very relaxed, and not at all conscious of the medium.

It was, after all, less than 5 mins, out of what was, (maybe?) a 1 hour lesson.

For people who are, for one reason or another, housebound, or living many miles from a teacher, this video proves that Skype can be be a very real alternative.

Congratulations, JBiegel.
_________________________
Rob

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#1234517 - 07/20/09 09:59 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: R0B]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Thanks, ROB, for your kind and thoughtful posting. If I ever had a doubt about teaching in this manner or thought it would be unfair to me as a teacher or to a student to use Skype, I wouldn't waste my time with it. I am in the middle of learning two new works for piano and orchestra written for me, finishing up the Mozart sonata cycle cds and other projects for the 2011-12 and 2012-13 season which requires a good deal of PC time on a global level. OK--following several discussions regarding everyone's perception of fee for lessons, I have personally decided to introduce this new way of teaching at a very special introductory rate. If you go to this link, http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html
the new lesson charges will be posted there via PayPal. As this is new technology, I find it appropriate to offer an introductory rate. I check my email address located at that URL and will respond to those who would like to try the lessons using Skype.
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