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#1234524 - 07/20/09 10:25 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
The person who takes lessons from a well known celebrity then has bragging rights ..but also it looks good on a resume.. smile

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#1234543 - 07/20/09 11:08 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Bob Newbie]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13779
Loc: Iowa City, IA
FWIW...to go off on a philosophical tangent. This is exactly why we have capitalism. In a capitalist economy, the market enables individuals to decide what things are worth. Prices reflect the demand of the consumer, and if someone wants to spend $200 for a video lesson with a highly regarded concert pianist, then so be it.

The most obvious alternative is communism, where a bunch of "experts" sit around and decide what a video lesson should be worth, if anything. If we decide that a Skype lesson with Jeffrey Biegel is only worth $45, then Mr. Biegel will stop offering them because they're not cost effective, and nobody will be able to get one, even though it's cheaper.

This is why communist economies fail. They don't allow people to decide what they want and how much they're willing to pay for it. It kills innovation, and it ignores the fact that not everybody has the same needs or wants.

Everybody should read "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell. At the very least, people should get over the idea that something has intrinsic value. Things are worth what people will pay for them.

A case in point - the XBOX 360 costs more to make than it sells for. ( Read this article... ) But Microsoft knew people wouldn't pay $715 for the console, so they priced it at a loss and found other ways to make up the shortfall (Live memberships, game and accessory sales, etc...)
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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1234563 - 07/20/09 11:54 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
This is why communist economies fail. They don't allow people to decide what they want and how much they're willing to pay for it. It kills innovation, and it ignores the fact that not everybody has the same needs or wants.

Everybody should read "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell. At the very least, people should get over the idea that something has intrinsic value. Things are worth what people will pay for them.

That's what I've always said. Good post!
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#1234595 - 07/21/09 01:06 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
This is why communist economies fail. They don't allow people to decide what they want and how much they're willing to pay for it. It kills innovation, and it ignores the fact that not everybody has the same needs or wants.
I wouldn't be throwing stones re: economies if I lived in the US. Doesn't it kinda owe rather a lot of money to a certain very large communist country?
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#1234600 - 07/21/09 01:13 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13779
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I'm not saying capitalism is perfect.

I rather like the Churchill quote:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

The same is true for capitalism I think. laugh
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1234602 - 07/21/09 01:14 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5459
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Doesn't it kinda owe rather a lot of money to a certain very large communist country?



Bravo!!
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#1234608 - 07/21/09 01:21 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I'm not saying capitalism is perfect.

I rather like the Churchill quote:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

The same is true for capitalism I think. laugh
Here's a quote from me - "Without Chinese communist slave labour the American economy would have collapsed several times over."

Try reading Das Kapital. Marx points out that capitalism can only survive through finding cheaper labour markets.

And yeh, right on AZN!.
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#1234635 - 07/21/09 03:10 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
I heard the singer Angela Gheorgiu recently on the radio, talking about her education in Rumania under "communism".

Anyone who heard that would turn off their innovative Skype lesson and pack their suitcase, firstclass to the Eastern Block, for a place in a killed-innovation conservatory.



Originally Posted By: Kreisler


This is exactly why we have capitalism.

This is why communist economies fail.


Boyscout economics like that is hard to stomach, first thing in the morning.


Originally Posted By: Kreisler


A case in point - the XBOX 360 costs more to make than it sells for. ( Read this article... ) But Microsoft knew people wouldn't pay $715 for the console, so they priced it at a loss and found other ways to make up the shortfall (Live memberships, game and accessory sales, etc...)



That's pure AgitProp, and I don't believe a word of it.

Besides, it in no way confirms your point.


Edited by landorrano (07/21/09 03:11 AM)

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#1234640 - 07/21/09 03:27 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Very interesting comments from tax haven Andorra! laugh

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#1234666 - 07/21/09 06:25 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Andromaque]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
[In a capitalist and democratic society], I have decided on my own free will to lower the cost per lesson using Skype as an introductory offer. The link is:
http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html
Reason? Many people do not know my teaching, and, if only by the videos provided, they cannot understand the transition of playing in the student. Makes sense then, to offer this new means of teaching in a more affordable manner to start.
_________________________
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#1234675 - 07/21/09 07:22 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
WillisWill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 125
Loc: Charlottesville, VA
Originally Posted By: landorrano
I heard the singer Angela Gheorgiu recently on the radio, talking about her education in Rumania under "communism".

Anyone who heard that would turn off their innovative Skype lesson and pack their suitcase, firstclass to the Eastern Block, for a place in a killed-innovation conservatory.



crap like this is hard to take, especially first thing in the morning. communist countries are/have been typically quite good at identifying extremely talented individuals, whether in art, sport or whatever, and giving them excellent training and very comfortable lifestyles. however, anyone who was not a member or the cultural/social elite would have likely had a very different experience in romania under the communist regime. i doubt there will ever be a conclusive answer as to how many hundred of thousands, if not millions, were killed between 1945-1989.

capitalism can run amok, just like any other system. however, we are not executing anyone, or allowing mob justice or riots to run through the streets.
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#1234701 - 07/21/09 08:32 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: WillisWill]
Piano World Online   blank



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5576
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
Amazing how far off topic you folks can drift.

Please get back on topic, or start another thread.
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#1234712 - 07/21/09 09:30 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: landorrano
I heard the singer Angela Gheorgiu recently on the radio, talking about her education in Rumania under "communism".

Anyone who heard that would turn off their innovative Skype lesson and pack their suitcase, firstclass to the Eastern Block, for a place in a killed-innovation conservatory.



Ah yes, those heady days living under the benign, cultivated boot reign of Nicolae Ceausescu.

Anyway, back on topic. There are challenges to online lessons, no doubt, but if Mr. Biegel can show that he's up to the challenges, and there is a market, and the lessons are priced right, then it seems like something interesting to follow.

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#1235016 - 07/21/09 07:06 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Phlebas]
ProdigalPianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 1049
Loc: Phoenix Metro, AZ
Personally, I find it interesting that this topic gets so much attention on, of all places, the teacher's forum.

Having grown up in The Middle of Nowhere ("it's not the end of the earth, but you can see it from the top of the grain elevator"), I can tell you that it's all a matter of perspective.

There are piano teachers (likely not good ones, mind you) who I can guarantee you right now are thinking "Who could charge more than $12 an hour for a piano lesson??? Are they crazy??" and who would be equally bewildered as to why anyone would get a college degree in pedagogy or even basic training in how to teach piano.

As long as you can play advanced stuff like Fur Elise or the "hard" keys out of the hymnal down at the church, you sure know enough to teach. wink
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#1235219 - 07/22/09 06:28 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: ProdigalPianist]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
I remember seeing ads for piano lessons in Virginia some years ago for $20 an hour!? At the time I was charging $40 in the UK.
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1235268 - 07/22/09 09:32 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Times have indeed changed. I did lower the Skype fee to $75 per hour. Seems fair and reasonable as an introductory offer.
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www.jeffreybiegel.com

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#1235774 - 07/23/09 07:47 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
I am doing an interview today (July 23) with a writer at the Ledger-Enquirer in Columbus, Georgia regarding online teaching. I will share it when it comes out with the Forum here.
_________________________
www.jeffreybiegel.com

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#1237472 - 07/26/09 02:17 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
Opus_Maximus Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/04
Posts: 1485
It depends. There are several reasons.

If you contact a teacher at a renowned music conservatory or university with a strong music department for a "trial" lesson, the going rate ranges from about 100-250 USD, in my experience. From what I understand, this is simply because that is how much they WOULD be getting paid per hour by the school. (proportional to the tuition you would be paying.)

For private teachers charging this much, for the most part, it has to do with teachers who are able to attract students with enough seriousness-of-purpose about their piano playing, and, subsequently, willingness to pay whatever price. Usually these are students who are planning to have careers as pianists or have an extreme dedication to it as an extra-curricular activity.

These teachers themselves, in order to command the fee, must have at some point gone through the same hoops that their students are going through (Preparing for conservatory auditions, planning repertoire for competitions, playing recitals, etc, etc). But most importantly - be familiar with ALL facets of the professional piano world: having knowledge of all the standard repertory as well having performed a good deal of it yourself, knowing who teaches at which schools, having connections with presenters and managers who can showcase your best students, knowing which competitions and music festivals to send your students to, knowing all the great recordings of the pieces your students are playing so you can share them with them, having had enough of your own successes and failures as a performer to be able to pep talk your students.

All of this knowledge is garnered via years of training, experience, and sacrafice that are similar to a specialist in any other given field. (law, medicine, engineering, psychology, etc).

You need to have a history of good students as well...or at least enough good students for people to hear them in festivals and competitions and go "oh...I wonder who HER teacher is.."

Also, as Kreisler mentioned, it depends on where you are located. There are certain parts of the USA where living expenses are so cheap that you would charge whatever is relative to 100 (or whatever) in you area.


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#1237524 - 07/26/09 09:29 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Opus_Maximus]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Each teacher must set their fees accordingly. Having studied with Adele Marcus and teaching worldwide in master classes, privately and in institutions, I arrived at the lowest fee that would be agreeable in accordance with my experience. My students perform, teach and I went through the rigors of my own training with Ms. Marcus to qualify me to do the same. As I said, each teacher must set their own fees, and each prospective student must reserach the teacher through word of mouth, check out the forum posts in the history of the member, and have a conversation with the teacher via email or phone before deciding they can get something valuable from that teacher.
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#1240327 - 07/30/09 12:47 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
Jeffrey,

A telephone number for contacting you would be appreciated. This might help for those that have some questions about lessons via skype (including me) who might be interested in lessons.

Did I miss it somewhere?

I left a message via Yahoo contact info from your website.

Just thought you might like to add this to your info somewhere.

A Frustrated LL ;-)
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#1240745 - 07/31/09 02:22 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2893
Loc: UK.
Out of interest, this week I had to see a solicitor for some legal advice. The appointment cost £250 (about $400) for just over an hour. It makes Jeffrey look like a bargain. Perhaps we should all re-train?
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