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#1229023 - 07/09/09 05:02 PM I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4978
Loc: boston north
And why?

Is it their status?

That the teacher has concert performance qualifications?

Teaches at a University?

Teaches at a Top Rate Music/Piano University?

Has so many good pianists interested in lessons that they can pick and choose, so to help select that their price goes up?



Just what makes a teacher worth $100 an hour? $150 an hour, $200 an hour, etc?

And...

Might having such a teacher be advantagious as a coach on a monthly one hour lesson?

Have you paid that?

And did you find that it was worth it?


And what is the standard rate for a college prof?

A professional concert pianist's hourly teaching rate?

Who of you take lessons from such? Why? and what do you get out of your lessons? Do you talk about your teaching and ask advice as well?







_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1229028 - 07/09/09 05:11 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13802
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Teachers who charge that kind of money have a proven track record of high student achievement, usually as measured by competition success and admittance into prestigious festivals and university/conservatory programs.

There is also the matter of economics - supply and demand, and geography. It's fairly easy to charge $100 in Manhattan because you'd have to charge that much in order to pay the rent and a lot of people who live in Manhattan can afford it. If you lived in Manhattan, KS, however, it would be a different story. laugh
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#1229031 - 07/09/09 05:14 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
r1card0 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 64
Loc: Mexico City
That's just insane. I remember paying like $10 each hour when I went to piano lessons.

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#1229034 - 07/09/09 05:19 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: r1card0]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Anyone can charge $100 an hour. The question is, will they get it? The teacher would probably have to be a specialist of some kind to justify that kind of rate when the going rate for most teachers is around $40-$60 per hour.
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#1229035 - 07/09/09 05:20 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4978
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Teachers who charge that kind of money have a proven track record of high student achievement, usually as measured by competition success and admittance into prestigious festivals and university/conservatory programs.

There is also the matter of economics - supply and demand, and geography. It's fairly easy to charge $100 in Manhattan because you'd have to charge that much in order to pay the rent and a lot of people who live in Manhattan can afford it. If you lived in Manhattan, KS, however, it would be a different story. laugh


So....

When would the KS person pay that? and why?

Suppose this person is not geared towards "admittance into prestigious festivals and university/conservatory programs"?

What would make the teacher worth that cost?]

And I am sure that some do, and are worth it.

My suggestion for this topic would be who and why?
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1229066 - 07/09/09 07:05 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
My recent lessons with Jane Tan were over $100/hr, and they were worth every penny. She brought to the lesson far more than the usual teacher, opened my ears to hearing things I never heard before. Of all the masterclass teachers my students have had, none compared with Jane. Now I am teaching what I learned to my students, and you can hear the difference in their playing, although parents may never know why.

In general, my life experiences have taught me that you get what you pay for, and often paying more is cheaper in the long run. Of course, you must make certain you're getting what is being advertised.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1229067 - 07/09/09 07:05 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Lilylady,

You might want to ask PW's own Jeffrey Biegel. He charges $125 an hour. And that for an online skype lesson. More info at http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html
_________________________
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#1229143 - 07/09/09 09:52 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: eweiss]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4812
Loc: South Florida
Don't forget that good business sense and a flair for self-promotion will allow some people to charge much more and get it.

This may or may not mean that paying more gets you more.

The idea that "you get what you pay for" is sometimes not far from "a sucker is born every minute".

I'm not saying that some people who charge a huge amount per hour do not deserve it. But talent is a gift, and so is self-promotion. They don't always exist in the same person.

Remember if you charge a great deal per hour and come up with a way of getting new people to replace the old ones as soon as they realize they have gotten little or nothing, you can earn a great deal while teaching little or nothing.
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Piano Teacher

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#1229148 - 07/09/09 10:00 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1081
Loc: California


The teacher I interviewed who charges $100 an hour teaches at a very highly respected Catholic college. He's the accompaniest for a very good chorus. He gives seminars for students which are evidently very successful. He offered a complimentary lesson, which I didn't take, because the commute was just too far. He's a phenomenal pianist, I've heard him play. He's a very charismatic and bright man, and I suspect he's quite insightful. He also gives two scholarships a year.

The teacher whom I paid $75 an hour to came to my home. He has written a book and performed in concerts. He helped me more in 2 months of lessons, than I got from the class piano teachers at our junior college in 2 years. I learned to play 2 pieces I had been struggling with nearly perfectly in those 2 months. He would have been worth more.

I'd rather pay someone more and have lessons every 2 weeks.

What I want in a teacher is first of all an understanding of safe and ergonomic playing, secondly passion, real passion, for music, thirdly the ability to play beautifully, fourth the ability to teach me to play well. I don't do the regular lesson routine with scales, chords, etc...I pick a piece to work on, and have the teacher help me play it beautifully.
The last teacher I had gave me techniques to smooth over rough spots....there were never exercises just for the purpose of doing them, although he did give me a finger strenghtening exercise.

I guess eventually I'll get an acoustic piano and start taking lessons again.





Edited by Nikalette (07/09/09 10:02 PM)

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#1229270 - 07/10/09 02:01 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: eweiss]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
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Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Lilylady,

You might want to ask PW's own Jeffrey Biegel. He charges $125 an hour. And that for an online skype lesson. More info at http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html
For an on-line lesson I find that over the top - from nearly anybody.
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#1229295 - 07/10/09 03:27 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2919
Loc: UK.
Oh, we're talking about teachers!!

I could think of plenty of professionals who charge $100 an hour.

Not piano teachers though.
_________________________
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#1229351 - 07/10/09 08:13 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: eweiss]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4978
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Lilylady,

You might want to ask PW's own Jeffrey Biegel. He charges $125 an hour. And that for an online skype lesson. More info at http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html


It was reading about Jeffrey that made me start wondering about this.

Truth be told, $100 plus for lessons would be quite a hardship for me. No one in my area that I know of for private lessons unless I could maybe travel into Boston.

I would love to participate in more Master Classes as well.

What might those who teach those, charge?
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1229352 - 07/10/09 08:15 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Chris H.]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4978
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: Chris H.
Oh, we're talking about teachers!!

I could think of plenty of professionals who charge $100 an hour.

Not piano teachers though.


CHRIS!!!!

ha
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1229354 - 07/10/09 08:25 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
lalakeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 286
Loc: Chicago 'burbs
Chris, I know what you mean--my plumber charges over $100 per hour.

smile
_________________________
Private piano & voice teacher for over 20 years; currently also working as a pipe organist for 3 area churches; sing in a Chicago-area acappella chamber choir

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#1229377 - 07/10/09 09:12 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lalakeys]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
The plumber does not come by weekly, Lala, does he?
laugh laugh
In Manhattan where I reside, quite a few teachers charge $100/hour and up especially if they are Juilliard graduates. We are not talking necessarily about people with great teaching experience and a significant track record /reputation. Those will charge anywhere between more than $100 to much much more (eg $250 per hour)

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#1229394 - 07/10/09 09:43 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Andromaque]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5607
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
Jeffrey's rate is considered quite reasonable for someone at his level.

There are a number of teachers who charge more, some considerably more.

Unless money is really no object, new students just starting out aren't likely to be paying that kind of money.

Some students opt to supplement there regular lessons with occassional lessons from teachers like Jeffrey.

You are paying not only for their knowledge, but also their experience. A professional concert pianist/recording artist/composer/professor who has been performing (and studying) for many years has a wealth of first-hand knowledge.

Talk to Matt and his teacher about the "test" lesson with Jeffrey, and read the comments above in this thread from people who have taken lessons from teachers at this level.

In my own case (not being an accomplished pianist), I took flying lessons from an instructor who had 50 years experience flying (all types of aircraft, including fighter jets) and who specialized in working with commercial pilots.

I sought him out because I wanted to benefit from his experience and knowledge.
Any good flight instructor would have been ok to teach me, but he was amazing (and cost a bit more than the average).
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#1229588 - 07/10/09 02:42 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Piano World]
musiclady Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 431
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Some teachers of instruments other than piano charge over $100/hour!

Though most teachers I think who charge over $100/hour have huge egos, and don't care about what a reasonable person might be willing to pay. I would not pay $100/hour when there are plenty of teachers who charge respectable, but not ridiculous fees. Here most teachers are $50-$80 an hour, especially wind instrument teachers. (for the record, I charge about $60/hour, and I offer a choice of lesson lengths, lots of nice studio extras (like recording students on audio and/or video, which video recordings are necessary for a couple of career-minded students I have now, and then the result I produce consistently...but having been on the other side before, for me when I first started lessons $60/hour was out of reach.

Meri
_________________________
Clarinet and Piano Teacher based out of Toronto, Canada.Web: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com

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#1229592 - 07/10/09 02:49 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lalakeys]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2919
Loc: UK.
Originally Posted By: lalakeys
Chris, I know what you mean--my plumber charges over $100 per hour.

smile


Maybe we could work like a plumber.

I would sign you up for a weeks intensive course. It goes without saying that I would show up late. Then when I arrive I would inform you that your piano no longer meets current regulations and you need a new one. I am happy to arrange that for a fee. When I am done I will land you with a bill for $10000!
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#1229610 - 07/10/09 03:31 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Chris H.]
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 850
And as with plumbers' customers, they'd get to see more bum than they planned on!

Musiclady: As for having a big ego to charge $100 per hour, I don't think it's a prerequisite. You DO need to understand your market. And why should you care what a reasonable person would pay? North America's economy is based on what unreasonable people will pay for things. For instance David Suzuki charges a fee to tell people obvious things you can do to save the planet which he himself doesn't do as he's jet-setting around the world. The more unreasonable your client, the better!

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#1229635 - 07/10/09 04:11 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Piano World]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Piano World

In my own case (not being an accomplished pianist), I took flying lessons from an instructor who had 50 years experience flying (all types of aircraft, including fighter jets) and who specialized in working with commercial pilots.
Online!?
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
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#1229652 - 07/10/09 04:29 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: r1card0]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1081
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: r1card0
That's just insane. I remember paying like $10 each hour when I went to piano lessons.


I remember when it cost a dime to ride the bus in San Francisco. It also cost $350 to rent a 2 story, 3 bedroom luxury flat. And my parents income was $1100/month which was considered very high in those days.

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#1229654 - 07/10/09 04:31 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1081
Loc: California
I think that a lot of piano teachers here don't have a completely steady income. Students start, stop, take lessons less frequently, etc...

Perhaps a teacher could charge a monthly rate, paid in advance, for weekly lessons, and a higher rate for biweekly or consulation.

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#1229678 - 07/10/09 05:02 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
lilylady, the responses, which for the most part skirt the questions you originally asked, got me to wondering why you asked them in the first place?

Many people make the assumption that if you're charging $150/hr, your earning $6,000/wk, $300,000/yr. Seldom do specialists work a straight 40 hr week. They might be lucky if they can schedule 15 or 20 hrs of work per week on average, and work 40 or so weeks a year.

We know, of course, that an hourly fee is not indicative of the individual's net income. Overhead must be accounted for, plus taxes, which in the USA on self-employed, are approaching 50%. Argh.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1229681 - 07/10/09 05:05 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Nikalette]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
I remember when it cost a dime to ride the bus in San Francisco. It also cost $350 to rent a 2 story, 3 bedroom luxury flat. And my parents income was $1100/month which was considered very high in those days.


I remember when my gross was under $500/mo and I had a wife and two children, rent, groceries, etc. Gas was less than 30 cents a gallon and we paid $2,950 for our first new car.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1229686 - 07/10/09 05:15 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
I remember when it cost a dime to ride the bus in San Francisco. It also cost $350 to rent a 2 story, 3 bedroom luxury flat. And my parents income was $1100/month which was considered very high in those days.


I remember when my gross was under $500/mo and I had a wife and two children, rent, groceries, etc. Gas was less than 30 cents a gallon and we paid $2,950 for our first new car.


Gee, John, you must be ancient! smile
_________________________
B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
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#1229694 - 07/10/09 05:33 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Minniemay]
Varcon Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1931
Loc: Mount Vernon, Georgia 30445
I've had some wonderful teachers who charged reasonable fees for the time and was told by one whose teachers included Rosenthal, Hofman, Gallico, Siloti, Laros, and others that he paid
$100 for some of them and that Mrs. Ferguson (Tausig, Joseffy, William Mason, Berlin Conservatory) was better than all of them but charged a reasonable fee.

Robert McDowell, when I went to Chicago to meet Rudolph Ganz, told me that many took lessons from him to have Ganz's name on their 'resume' as there was a time when the teacher's name with whom you studied in your bio might sway students to study with you.

I found that a couple of big names were really useless as teachers but they were 'artist teachers.' Some of the masterclasses I've attended were a waste of time. One expects to leave with something and, for the most part, I didn't.

And the observation that locality has a lot to do with charges is correct. Many wonderfully qualified teachers are in small populated areas and the demand isn't that great. In the larger cities fees are higher. Reputation, ability, demand--all play a part in charging fees.


Edited by Varcon (07/10/09 05:35 PM)

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#1229696 - 07/10/09 05:35 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5512
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
I remember when my gross was under $500/mo and I had a wife and two children, rent, groceries, etc. Gas was less than 30 cents a gallon and we paid $2,950 for our first new car.


I remember those dollar movie places where I can go and watch second-run movies in theaters for a dollar. Regular theaters charged $3.50 for Tuesday bargain matinees. The dollar theaters are closed now, and the same regular theaters charge $7 for matinees, $10 for evening shows.
_________________________
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#1229727 - 07/10/09 07:04 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Minniemay]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Minniemay
Gee, John, you must be ancient! smile


There are days I feel that way!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1229745 - 07/10/09 08:02 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4812
Loc: South Florida
John, for me the feeling of being "ancient" comes from having vivid memories of things my students are learning in history class. smile

I would hate to think that people who know that I am a teacher would assume that if another teacher charges 10 times what I charge, that by itself means that the other teacher is better. I have never been a good business person, and I loath self-promotion. I don't think what I earn is at all an accurate indication of my value as a teacher.
_________________________
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#1229756 - 07/10/09 08:39 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Gary D.]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19468
Loc: New York City
In Manhattan, many doctors make $1000 an hour before expenses.

I don't think 99+% of the tennis players in the world would benefit much from a lesson from Roger Federer(even though I think he is the best and most articulate player of all time). In the same way, I don't think most pianists would benefit from a teacher who taught at some major conservatory. That kind of teacher could easily have little training or experience teaching amateurs. Of course, there are exceptions.


Edited by pianoloverus (07/10/09 08:50 PM)

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#1229775 - 07/10/09 09:24 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: pianoloverus]
Musictuary Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 169
Loc: Aurora, Illinois, USA
Another point that I think that needs to be considered is that the type of teacher who would charge $100 an hour may not be the typical teacher who gives weekly lessons but may be the type of teacher who based upon his/her expertise would give an occasional lesson to advanced students.

John VDB alluded to this point in an earlier posting.

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#1229814 - 07/10/09 11:01 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Musictuary]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
I sense an underlying murmur of disapproval for teachers receiving $100 per hour or more. I wonder how many have calculated what a classroom teacher or college professor receives per teaching hour, say an individual with 20 or more years of experience. Note, not what they get paid per hour of work, but per hour of teaching. Obviously, these are generally group lesson situations, so the cost is shared by many.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1229858 - 07/11/09 12:26 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: pianoloverus]
Nannerl Mozart Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 732
Loc: Australia, Melbourne
I would have thoughtthat teachers that teach with a fee of $100 or more per hour would not promote needing to see a student so regularly. See I would think that sort of teacher would teach teachers or concert artists and really advanced pianists. My piano teacher tells me that some truly advanced pianists come to see him for 'coaching' rather than really being 'taught'. It's a bit of guidance and motivation to prepare for a concert.
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#1229950 - 07/11/09 08:31 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4978
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
lilylady, the responses, which for the most part skirt the questions you originally asked, got me to wondering why you asked them in the first place?


Out of curiosity John.

I would like to have some coaching lessons, and wondered what the going rate was for concert pianists/teachers, college profs, around the country might be.

That brought my wandering mind to who charges what, and how do they come to charge that. Who has had these kinds of lessons and did they get out of it what they had expected?

Ideally, I would love to have 2 hours of coaching at a time slot and for several units. I learn a lot from reading here on PW, listening and watching youtubes for comparisons in interpretations, but it isn't the same as a lesson.

As mentioned above, with my piddly income, I shouldn't be entertaining the idea, but I think I would like to travel to someone whom I admire and have a couple of lessons. When if not now? Heck getting a new shower could wait a bit, couldn't it? And I have now lived beyond half my life and try to put that into some perspective as well. But it really is a lot of money!

I wanted to know what other fellow teachers/players thought about high fees and who and how much they would agree to pay for such lessons.

Never have I thought that a teacher didn't deserve to get paid $100, $150. Just wondered who and why some could charge that (in a positive way).

And I thought it might be an interesting topic that others might want to hear about, and share their experiences.
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1229959 - 07/11/09 08:55 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
Chris H. Offline
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Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2919
Loc: UK.
I think you need to find the teacher first and then worry about the cost later.

You might be surprised. As a general rule better teachers will command higher fees but it's not always that way. I managed to find exactly the situation you are looking for a few years back. The lady I took lessons with was fantastic. She had a terrific reputation and had spent a lifetime teaching advanced students. Every time I went I would be there for over 2 hours at the end of which she would ask me what I thought I should pay! Now she was easily worth $100 an hour which is around what I paid her. It was a lot of money but then I would only go once a month or even 6 weeks.

The biggest problem is finding a teacher like this. You may not have that many options. That's why I think you should start making enquiries and tracking them down. Once you find them the cost might be of secondary importance.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#1229962 - 07/11/09 08:56 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
John v.d.Brook Offline
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Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Well, I'd go for it. For those who are newer to the forum, I'll rehash what Jane Tan did. One of our Seattle teachers had studied a pedagogy program with her down in Arizona, and wanted to continue, so at the MNTA convention a few years back, she enticed Jane to do a class, in which each student would get an hour private lesson, but others could observe, as everyone's problems are different, and we could learn how a really top teacher coped with a different variety of student issues.


Eventually, 16 of us signed up at $1,800 for 12 lessons, once a month. Of course, this "tuition" also covered Jane's hotel and travel expenses, and Steinway footed the bill for the classroom location.

Now, there are several "concert artist" level teachers living and working in Seattle, and I've given some thought to doing just what you're thinking of. Perhaps monthly "sessions" for a year with each of them, just to glean some different perspectives and ideas.

By the way, I had a class with Seymour Bernstein as part of Jane's program, and he was beyond amazing. He lives in your part of the country. You might check him out and see if he's still teaching (I'll bet he is).

Best of luck - you'll be so happy you did this.

John
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1229982 - 07/11/09 09:34 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
lilylady Offline
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Registered: 03/17/05
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Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
By the way, I had a class with Seymour Bernstein as part of Jane's program, and he was beyond amazing. He lives in your part of the country. You might check him out and see if he's still teaching (I'll bet he is).
John


I had not heard of SB before.

I checked out a couple of websites. He has a studio in NYC. (5 hrs away)


http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/music/piano/people/faculty/bernstein

https://www.burtnco.com/Bernstein.a5w

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2493/is_6_54/ai_n13825592/

What is your teaching philosophy?

To make people feel good about themselves by helping them express their deepest emotions through music. It's a process of integrating feeling, thinking, sensory perception and physical coordination--all the requirements of a healthy, well-adjusted person. That's why productive practicing can lead towards an integration of the whole person.
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1229986 - 07/11/09 09:44 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
Andromaque Offline
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Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Lilylady
You might consider reading Seymour Bernstein's books, not in lieu of a class of course. But I find them very interesting. His latest book "Monsters and Angels" offers fascinating details about life as a student, performer, teacher and many interesting teaching tips. It is a great read.
Another of his good books is "In your own two hands" (self-discovery through music). This book if more focused on technique, interpetaion and growth of a pianist while the first one is more biographical.

http://www.seymourbernstein.com/publications.html

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#1229990 - 07/11/09 09:52 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
JBiegel Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Believe it or not, when I taught in Japan, they told me I HAD to charge at least $250 per hour, otherwise, they would think I was not a good teacher. I was shocked--I wanted to charge $75. When I studied with Adele Marcus, she charged $65, then $75, and when I was at Juilliard, in 1980s, her private fee was $125.
I am now touring, teaching, recording, and consider myself in synch (or much less expensive) with my colleagues who also teach privately, in universities and in master classes. Having studied with Adele Marcus, and getting the results when people come to me as teachers, students, professional pianists looking to enhance their performance(s), I tried to find a fee that is acceptable for my level in the industry, and came up with the comparable rate, if not lower. I am always open to people studying with me sporadically, for whatever reasons. Everyone comes with a different reason and purpose for their lessons. The Skype fee is considered worldwide acceptable for what I offer.
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#1230044 - 07/11/09 01:13 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
AZNpiano Offline
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Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5512
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
By the way, I had a class with Seymour Bernstein as part of Jane's program, and he was beyond amazing. He lives in your part of the country.


My favorite SB quote from a master class: "You're not walking to your execution!" He said it with a deadpan expression. I don't think the kids got it, though. Otherwise, he was very inspirational and compassionate as a teacher.
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#1230065 - 07/11/09 02:11 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: AZNpiano]
John v.d.Brook Offline
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Registered: 03/18/06
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That's a hoot! I don't believe he has a mean bone in his body. He is the definition of gentleness.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1230388 - 07/12/09 11:41 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
JBiegel Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Believe it or not, tennis teachers are commanding well over $100 per hour--it all depends on what you are looking for, and how well you know and respect the teacher you are seeking their advice from. It has always been a personal decision, and some teachers say what they need to in 5 minutes, others in 5 days. That is something each student needs to explore on their own and ask those who have studied with the person they are considering. What I loved about Adele Marcus is that she nailed the problems quickly and fixed them. That is my credo. I can tell in two measures what is going on--even online.
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#1230398 - 07/12/09 12:03 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13802
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Same with Golf pros.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1230543 - 07/12/09 05:55 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
JBiegel Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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I have colleagues charging MUCH more than $100 or $125--I think those who want to have some lessons with people like myself, should check around and see what other teachers are charging. You will be quite surprised. I've heard of as much as $750--indeed. I would never do such a thing.
_________________________
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#1230779 - 07/13/09 07:13 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
lilylady Offline
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Loc: boston north
Jeffrey also freely gives tips and advice here on PW in the Pianist's Corner and on his Blog and website.

Surely a teacher/performer who enjoys music and what he is doing.

Thanks Jeffrey!
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1230849 - 07/13/09 10:38 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
Seeker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 360
Loc: Rockville, MD
Originally Posted By: JBiegel
======SNIP===== When I studied with Adele Marcus, she charged $65, then $75, and when I was at Juilliard, in 1980s, her private fee was $125.====SNIP====
I tried to find a fee that is acceptable for my level in the industry, and came up with the comparable rate, if not lower. I am always open to people studying with me sporadically, for whatever reasons. Everyone comes with a different reason and purpose for their lessons. The Skype fee is considered worldwide acceptable for what I offer.

Hey Jeff - Please don't apologize for your rates! I don't know your work personally, but from what I've read about you, the accolades I've seen, considering your pianistic pedigree, your performing career and teaching expertise, your time is worth at LEAST $125/hr.

Consider this: According to WikiAnswers, In 2007, $1.00 from 1980 is worth:

$2.52 using the Consumer Price Index
$2.22 using the GDP deflator
$3.07 using the value of consumer bundle
$2.43 using the unskilled wage
$3.74 using the nominal GDP per capita
$4.95 using the relative share of GDP

Using those numbers, if you were charging what Adele charged you, ***adjusted for inflation***, you should be charging somewhere between $350 and $400 an hour to be compensated at the same rate!

Bottom line - you're worth it.
=====================================================
Regarding the OP's original question - what makes a (great) teacher worth the money, at least in my opinion, is a combination of things: how they play the piano (influenced in great part by their "pedigree", i.e., those with whom they have studied), their ability and experience as performers (though it can be argued that one can be a great teacher without being a great performer), and most important, how effective they are as a teacher FOR YOU - something I believe can only be determined by a trial lesson.
==================================================
And a final thought on fees and pricing: In my own case I have a set of "usual and customary rates" for my services as an accompanist, coach, teacher or performer. But I also have an "exception policy" where I will offer scholarships, discounted fees, deferred fees, or even work "pro bono" depending on a particular set of circumstances. I'd do what I need to do to pay for a least a single session full price before broaching any issues of financial need with a teacher; it's more respectful that way. But if you've got the passion, the need and the talent, you might be surprised how many people would be willing to meet you part way on the financial thing.
_________________________
Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
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1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")

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#1231218 - 07/14/09 12:30 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Roxy Offline
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Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Whittier, Calif
Well all of you sound like "hobby teachers" to me. I just read an ad from Ontario Canada. We are just not real teachers here in the U.S. This teacher in Canada is charging $500. an hour over the phone for a lesson. Where have we gone wrong? And those of us that can't teach one lesson and have the student understand and play the piano in that hour are only "hobby teachers". If you want the teacher to come to you, he/she will come to you for 5- 2 hour lessons for only $8,000.00 Such a deal. Of course you must practice 8 hours a day while taking, to make the lessons of the most benefit. How anyone has 10 hours a day to devote to the lesson and practice time both, I haven't quite figured out yet, but then what do I know, my lessons haven't reached the $500 mark yet. Just thought all you teachers out there might need something to strive for, why think $100 when you can think $500? Hope you enjoyed reading about this ad as much as I did. From one "hobby teacher" to another.

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#1231245 - 07/14/09 01:47 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: John v.d.Brook]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
I sense an underlying murmur of disapproval for teachers receiving $100 per hour or more. I wonder how many have calculated what a classroom teacher or college professor receives per teaching hour, say an individual with 20 or more years of experience. Note, not what they get paid per hour of work, but per hour of teaching. Obviously, these are generally group lesson situations, so the cost is shared by many.
No murmuring here, that's a perfecly acceptable price for a good teacher. It's just the Skype thing - how ever good the intentions, I can't see the student getting their money's worth.
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
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#1231260 - 07/14/09 02:32 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Gary D. Offline
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Registered: 08/30/08
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Loc: South Florida
If you have a really good video set up, both ways, and microphones are set up so that the sound is reasonably good, the big disadvantage I see to not "being there" is that you can't guide anything physically.

It's also very hard to see, either way, from a variety of angles.
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#1231292 - 07/14/09 07:14 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Gary D.]
knotty Offline
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Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Lilylady,

I don't think it's uncommon at all. And yes, I think it's based on accomplishments. It's usually the best tool to measure someone's talent, his accomplishments.

So if the teacher has taught in a prestigious school of music for 20 years, and performed either with celebrities, or he is a celebrity on his own, then you can expect to pay big bucks. Because he's showing both skills in teaching and performing. And usually students seek them out rather than the other way around.

It would often be non-recurring lessons. Just a matter of getting on one's calendar. For example, Oscar Peterson used to teach private lessons. Many people would easily blow a couple thousand for an hour with him.

As for the "Skype thing", it's hard to figure the "money's worth" part of the equation, because it's only music after all. But I do the "Skype thing", and I really like it. I used to drive miles to get to a variety of teachers, in the middle of the week because I have kids keeping me busy nights & weekends. That time is time I do not charge to my own client, and I charge a lot.
So cost wise, the drive alone gets me my money back, probably 6 times over.
Having said that, I also enjoy the lessons a lot. But I do not consider myself a total beginner, we don't do finger position, posture and all that. Also, it's jazz, so it's a lot of theory, talk, analysis.
My son wanted to do it with her cello teacher who left town, but that would absolutely not work.
For piano students doing non-classical music, it's quite good.

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#1231758 - 07/15/09 12:37 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: knotty]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Keyboardklutz and Gary--I can see your point--especially if you have teachers who are not quite equipped to understand how to fix things physically--look it, if a good teacher can see and fix problems in the flesh, they should be able to do it over Skype. I used to have great phone lessons with Adele Marcus, and have given many too. You just have to do your research and make sure the teacher is good no matter what. If you know what you're doing, you know what you're doing. I'm certainly not defending myself as a teacher, but in the future, more teachers will do this. Technology moves on and we move with it. But with this, we must know what we are dealing with. Do your research.
_________________________
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#1231771 - 07/15/09 01:24 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keyboardklutz Offline
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There are a million and one things that need doing to ensure an effortless technique. Lesson after lesson some students never get it. Interpretation you could certainly manage over the net but the rest?
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
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#1231844 - 07/15/09 07:58 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
JBiegel Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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In the You Tube video demo of Skype teaching, I helped Matt with the thirds in the LH of Beethoven Opus 10, no. 3. I would feel very comfortable fixing technical challenges in the same way. I taught a Singaporean pianist online how to do the diminished seventh stretching exercises, as well as to Matt and his teacher. Be it in a studio or online, anything can be taught if it is done correctly. The apparatus changes, but the lesson remains the same.
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#1231887 - 07/15/09 10:13 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1439
Loc: Australia
As a Skype user, I find the recent posts interesting.
It is relatively easy to use multiple cameras with Skype.
I use two, for guitar lessons, so that I can focus on each hand (by switching between the two). Together with a little remote control for zooming, pretty well all aspects can be covered.

Once the initial feeling of the Skype experience being a relatively hi-tech way of communicating, has worn off, it is more like teaching someone with a pane of glass between teacher and student.

It takes a little while to get used to, and for both parties to feel at ease, but a valuable tool, nonetheless.

Edited to add:
I would have no hesitation, in paying the going rate for advanced tuition, or instuction in a particular technique, using Skype, or any other method.





Edited by R0B (07/15/09 10:25 AM)
_________________________
Rob

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#1231953 - 07/15/09 12:16 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Originally Posted By: JBiegel
Be it in a studio or online, anything can be taught if it is done correctly. The apparatus changes, but the lesson remains the same.
Sorry, no way I can go with that one.
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#1232256 - 07/15/09 10:58 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
JBiegel Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
You don't know until you try.
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#1232311 - 07/16/09 02:26 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
cruiser Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1171
Loc: Cornwall, England
Originally Posted By: JBiegel
You don't know until you try.


kbk, how about giving it a try with me?! ...once I've discovered what 'Skype' is, of course! smile

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#1232360 - 07/16/09 07:48 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keystring Online   content
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Jeffrey, would you ever deal with beginners? In the physical part of instruction you would need not only see the person, but different angles, and perhaps have them see you too? I've been told of masterclasses that involved a sophisticated set of cameras operated over a distance by remote control. The teacher could swivel or zoom the camera in the students' classroom, while the same could be done with the camera at the teacher's premises. The screen would have picture-in-picture (which Skype also gives). But if you have only a videocam, then you have it fixed at one angle and distance. I imagine that for beginners you'd have to see the person from head to toe and for them to do likewise (?)


Edited by keystring (07/16/09 07:50 AM)

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#1232367 - 07/16/09 07:58 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keystring]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13802
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I haven't tried it, but I'm guessing that Skype would work well for older beginners. For children, however, distance learning hasn't proven particularly successful - it's difficult to keep them engaged without a physical presence.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1232371 - 07/16/09 08:17 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
JBiegel Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
If the webcam is situated to see you sit at the piano where I can see your posture, hand position etc, it is best. In my humble opinion, playing around with the cameras and zooming etc, is a time taker, and I don't need to zoom in on anything to see what I need to see and fix what needs to be fixed. I believe the attention should not be on the cameras, the zooming or the technology. It should be treated as though it is a regular lesson, using the technology to make it happen. No ribbons and bows, just keep it simple. When you start zooming and doing things that focus on the video, it takes away from the flow of the lesson. It should seem as though there is no Skype, no webcam etc. Just headphones and a laptop with Skype. Yes, I could teach a beginner this way.


Edited by JBiegel (07/16/09 08:17 AM)
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#1232480 - 07/16/09 01:35 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keyboardklutz Offline
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When I teach I am sometimes crotched below the student looking up (not sure why), sometimes playing a hand for them, sometimes having them stood up doing physical exercises, sometimes clapping together or just singing along. You can do all this?
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#1232513 - 07/16/09 02:21 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
JBiegel Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
I tell students to count out looud, subdivide, sing as they play to create the long line and maintain better rhythm from the inside out. The things you mention can be done in a studio, but I wouldn't necessarily have to do those things in a Skype lesson. The challenge in a Skype lesson is that the teacher isn't on top of the student clapping or singing or banging out the rhythm. Rather, the student feels compelled to be a better student and be 'on the ball' and have the best possible rhythm simply because the teacher is not there to instill the rhythm from the 'outside in'. I typically teach pianists on the highest level, but teaching via Skype can be equally rewarding on any level. After a minute or two, there is a sense of being in the same room, and there is no separation.
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#1232523 - 07/16/09 02:41 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: JBiegel
The challenge in a Skype lesson is that the teacher isn't on top of the student clapping or singing or banging out the rhythm. Rather, the student feels compelled to be a better student and be 'on the ball' and have the best possible rhythm simply because the teacher is not there to instill the rhythm from the 'outside in'.
Oh dear, in other words limited interaction.
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#1232524 - 07/16/09 02:43 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keystring Online   content
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And the student seeing you?

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#1232529 - 07/16/09 02:49 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13802
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Not limited, just different. Some teachers are more physical than others, and some are content - and just as effective - sitting in a chair a few feet away.

It also depends on the student. Some need a physical connection with the teacher and find a hands-on approach very enlightning. Others would rather not be touched and prefer to listen and observe first, then try themselves.

Jeffrey obviously feels he can be an effective teacher without having a physical presence, while kbk feels he can be most effective with a more "hands-on" approach.

In other words, it has little to do with Skype, and much more to do with the individual students' and teachers' learning and teaching styles.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1232531 - 07/16/09 02:53 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
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So, Jeff sits in a chair a few feet away when he teaches?
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#1232548 - 07/16/09 03:36 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Piano World Offline



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I agree with Kreisler, it depends on the students perception.

I took a mini lesson from Jeffrey myself and did not find any problem with it being done via Skype. Matt and Sam were both happy with their lessons, expressing a desire to continue.

If you already have your mind made up it won't work, it probably isn't for you.

BTW, the following is from a CD I received from Sam in Singapore (it came in while I was traveling). It shows the students perspective pretty well...

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#1232559 - 07/16/09 04:03 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Piano World]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Very impressive. As I said earlier, it may do for interpretation.
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#1232560 - 07/16/09 04:08 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13802
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
So, Jeff sits in a chair a few feet away when he teaches?


I don't know about Jeff, but many teachers do. And a great many people learn a great deal in masterclasses, where they don't have any direct communication with the teacher at all and simply observe from 10-25 feet away.

In a lot of ways, a Skype lesson is like watching yourself have a masterclass with Jeffrey Biegel.

By the way - if you're out there listening, Jeff - I had a great idea for you. You should do a presentation on your Sonatina books. Find a studio teacher who has several students working on the sonatina literature - have the kids raise $250 and do a Skype-masterclass where you teach, discuss, and demonstrate some of the literature in the collection you edited. I think the kids would really enjoy meeting the editor of their book, and it'd be a good way to make some connections around the country. (I might pitch the idea to our local association at their August meeting - maybe the nearby music store could host it. Send me a message if you're interested and I'll see what I can do to gauge interest around here...)
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#1232565 - 07/16/09 04:13 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
JBiegel Offline
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Great idea, Kreisler--feel free to propose that--I would be happy to do so!
Thanks for posting Sam's video--I will be interested to see it!
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#1232569 - 07/16/09 04:24 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
JBiegel Offline
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Hey--video with Sam is nice. He improved greatly during the Skype session. As you can see, I say the same things via Skype as I do in lessons in the same room. The concepts don't change--just the medium with which we transcend these traditions of teaching. Don't you think Chopin would be happy?
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#1232574 - 07/16/09 04:41 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
landorrano Offline
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For my part, my reaction is very strong, I don't like this video at all. I find it strange.

Rostropovich tells the story of when he met Casals. Casals took him into a bedroom and sat down with his cello resting between Rostropovich's feet. And he played the first Bach suite, one line at a time, looking straight into Rostropovich's eyes and examining every reaction. Imagine how strong a cello is, at such an intimate distance. The vibrations passing into your feet, every time Casals --- eh, Casals! -- comes back to that G and grinds it out.

You might ask: where did I hear this story. Rostropovich didn't tell this to me, it's on a video. A video? Ah, that serves to teach something then.

To me, it teaches that if you want to really learn something about your instrument, find your Casals and get real, real close.

In this video, it is clear that the teacher is good, and that he transmits something to the student.

But he can't transmit that vibration.

I have no doubt, however, that there will only be more teaching done in this fashion.

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#1232576 - 07/16/09 04:46 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
landorrano Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Find a studio teacher who has several students working on the sonatina literature - have the kids raise $250 and do a Skype-masterclass where you teach, discuss, and demonstrate some of the literature in the collection you edited.


I don't like that idea at all.

But if you're passing near Andorra, Jeffrey Biegel, and you want to stop by and pass an afternoon with my daughter or with a group of piano students, I'll make it possible.


Edited by landorrano (07/16/09 04:47 PM)

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#1232578 - 07/16/09 04:50 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
JBiegel Offline
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where is Andorra?
PS--if you had heard Sam when he first played the Ballade, you would see and hear the transformation--he did a wonderful job from the earliest part of that lesson.
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#1232579 - 07/16/09 04:51 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
JBiegel Offline
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--keep in mind--this teaching is for those who are on a very high level of playing and know to whom they want to bring these pieces to get them on the performance level--not really for kids--JB
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#1232581 - 07/16/09 04:53 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
bitWrangler Offline
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For Mac heads out there, you can also use ichat with your built in isight cams right out of the box. It even supports having multiple participants (up to 4 iirc).

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#1232582 - 07/16/09 04:55 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
landorrano Offline
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Andorra is where Charlemagne stopped off to buy cheap cigarettes and alcohol after driving out the Moors.

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#1232583 - 07/16/09 04:57 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
JBiegel Offline
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That's a cute story! Yes, indeed--I will stop by to coach your daughter. But bear in mind, I can teach her via Skype if the plane ticket is too costly and she is preparing for some big events.
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#1232590 - 07/16/09 05:03 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
landorrano Offline
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Plane ticket? There's no airport here!

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#1232593 - 07/16/09 05:18 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
JBiegel Offline
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Hope you have a great teacher there, otherwise, you're stuck with me and Skype, my friend.


Edited by JBiegel (07/16/09 05:19 PM)
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#1234240 - 07/20/09 12:50 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
JBiegel Offline
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I received a lovely message at Facebook from the great musician William Ross, who has done a great amount of work with Barbra Streisand. He viewed the Skype lessons and found the improvements of 'Sam' staggering. I am indeed happy to receive Bill's enodorsement:

"I just watched your Skype teaching with Sam. That is absolutely fantastic! So great Jeffrey. I could hear immediately the difference in sound when you got Sam to focus on his pinky finger and relax the thumb. Beautiful."


Edited by JBiegel (07/20/09 12:51 PM)
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#1234285 - 07/20/09 02:09 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Ah yes, Babara Streisand. Didn't you just love her Piano Concerto No. 1 Op. 11?
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#1234324 - 07/20/09 03:24 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
JBiegel Offline
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I would dare say that anyone who gets the opportunity to work with Barbra Streisand, who is very detailed and picky about everything, as musicians tend to be, I salute. Bill is a legend in his industry and a very respected musician. I value his words greatly.
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#1234357 - 07/20/09 04:23 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Could a person ask exactly how much more of this thread do you need to blow this trumpet of yours?
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#1234360 - 07/20/09 04:31 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Monica K. Offline

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keyboardklutz, do you really want people to have the kind of impression of you that they're going to get from your comments on this thread?

JBiegel, if I were an aspiring professional pianist, I wouldn't hesitate to pay a lot of money to have a Skype lesson with you or some other skilled teacher. It seems to me a very useful model for advanced students, especially students who may live in an area of the country where it's hard to find advanced teachers.
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#1234363 - 07/20/09 04:36 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5607
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Could a person ask exactly how much more of this thread do you need to blow this trumpet of yours?


Probably about as many times as you make inane remarks without any substantiation.

At least Jeffrey is trying to provide the facts that support what some of us have already observed for ourselves.

I'd prefer that to your constant efforts to shoot down the entire process without giving it a chance, as evidenced by your replies throughout this thread...

Originally Posted By: eweiss
Lilylady,

You might want to ask PW's own Jeffrey Biegel. He charges $125 an hour. And that for an online skype lesson. More info at http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html

keyboardklutz:
For an on-line lesson I find that over the top - from nearly anybody.


Originally Posted By: Piano World

In my own case (not being an accomplished pianist), I took flying lessons from an instructor who had 50 years experience flying (all types of aircraft, including fighter jets) and who specialized in working with commercial pilots.

keyboardklutz:
Online!?


Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
I sense an underlying murmur of disapproval for teachers receiving $100 per hour or more. I wonder how many have calculated what a classroom teacher or college professor receives per teaching hour, say an individual with 20 or more years of experience. Note, not what they get paid per hour of work, but per hour of teaching. Obviously, these are generally group lesson situations, so the cost is shared by many.

keyboardklutz:
No murmuring here, that's a perfecly acceptable price for a good teacher. It's just the Skype thing - how ever good the intentions, I can't see the student getting their money's worth.

keyboardklutz:
There are a million and one things that need doing to ensure an effortless technique. Lesson after lesson some students never get it. Interpretation you could certainly manage over the net but the rest?


Originally Posted By: JBiegel
Be it in a studio or online, anything can be taught if it is done correctly. The apparatus changes, but the lesson remains the same.

keyboardklutz:
Sorry, no way I can go with that one.

Originally Posted By: JBiegel
The challenge in a Skype lesson is that the teacher isn't on top of the student clapping or singing or banging out the rhythm. Rather, the student feels compelled to be a better student and be 'on the ball' and have the best possible rhythm simply because the teacher is not there to instill the rhythm from the 'outside in'.

keyboardklutz:
Oh dear, in other words limited interaction.

Keyboardklutz:
So, Jeff sits in a chair a few feet away when he teaches?

keyboardklutz:
Ah yes, Babara Streisand. Didn't you just love her Piano Concerto No. 1 Op. 11?

keyboardklutz:
Could a person ask exactly how much more of this thread do you need to blow this trumpet of yours?
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#1234376 - 07/20/09 04:49 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Monica K.]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Monica K.
It seems to me a very useful model for advanced students, especially students who may live in an area of the country where it's hard to find advanced teachers.
If there is somewhere like that then yes I agree. Otherwise a Skype lesson could only be second best, and a very poor second at that. I refuse to accept that in anyway it is the future. Obviously Jeff's free to sell whatever he wishes here and people are also free to make up there own mind about it.

Frank, so you don't find flying lessons over the net funny?
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#1234382 - 07/20/09 05:05 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
jazzyprof Online   content
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Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Ah yes, Babara Streisand. Didn't you just love her Piano Concerto No. 1 Op. 11?

Snarky,* aren't we?

*1 : crotchety, snappish
*2 : sarcastic, impertinent, or irreverent in tone or manner
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#1234496 - 07/20/09 08:45 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Piano World]
R0B Offline
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As an interested Skype user, I found the YouTube video, to be excellent. Thanks for sharing it.

Both teacher, and student, appeared very relaxed, and not at all conscious of the medium.

It was, after all, less than 5 mins, out of what was, (maybe?) a 1 hour lesson.

For people who are, for one reason or another, housebound, or living many miles from a teacher, this video proves that Skype can be be a very real alternative.

Congratulations, JBiegel.
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#1234517 - 07/20/09 09:59 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: R0B]
JBiegel Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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Thanks, ROB, for your kind and thoughtful posting. If I ever had a doubt about teaching in this manner or thought it would be unfair to me as a teacher or to a student to use Skype, I wouldn't waste my time with it. I am in the middle of learning two new works for piano and orchestra written for me, finishing up the Mozart sonata cycle cds and other projects for the 2011-12 and 2012-13 season which requires a good deal of PC time on a global level. OK--following several discussions regarding everyone's perception of fee for lessons, I have personally decided to introduce this new way of teaching at a very special introductory rate. If you go to this link, http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html
the new lesson charges will be posted there via PayPal. As this is new technology, I find it appropriate to offer an introductory rate. I check my email address located at that URL and will respond to those who would like to try the lessons using Skype.
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#1234524 - 07/20/09 10:25 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
Bob Newbie Offline
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Registered: 09/02/06
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The person who takes lessons from a well known celebrity then has bragging rights ..but also it looks good on a resume.. smile

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#1234543 - 07/20/09 11:08 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Bob Newbie]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13802
Loc: Iowa City, IA
FWIW...to go off on a philosophical tangent. This is exactly why we have capitalism. In a capitalist economy, the market enables individuals to decide what things are worth. Prices reflect the demand of the consumer, and if someone wants to spend $200 for a video lesson with a highly regarded concert pianist, then so be it.

The most obvious alternative is communism, where a bunch of "experts" sit around and decide what a video lesson should be worth, if anything. If we decide that a Skype lesson with Jeffrey Biegel is only worth $45, then Mr. Biegel will stop offering them because they're not cost effective, and nobody will be able to get one, even though it's cheaper.

This is why communist economies fail. They don't allow people to decide what they want and how much they're willing to pay for it. It kills innovation, and it ignores the fact that not everybody has the same needs or wants.

Everybody should read "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell. At the very least, people should get over the idea that something has intrinsic value. Things are worth what people will pay for them.

A case in point - the XBOX 360 costs more to make than it sells for. ( Read this article... ) But Microsoft knew people wouldn't pay $715 for the console, so they priced it at a loss and found other ways to make up the shortfall (Live memberships, game and accessory sales, etc...)
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#1234563 - 07/20/09 11:54 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
eweiss Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kreisler
This is why communist economies fail. They don't allow people to decide what they want and how much they're willing to pay for it. It kills innovation, and it ignores the fact that not everybody has the same needs or wants.

Everybody should read "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell. At the very least, people should get over the idea that something has intrinsic value. Things are worth what people will pay for them.

That's what I've always said. Good post!
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#1234595 - 07/21/09 01:06 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kreisler
This is why communist economies fail. They don't allow people to decide what they want and how much they're willing to pay for it. It kills innovation, and it ignores the fact that not everybody has the same needs or wants.
I wouldn't be throwing stones re: economies if I lived in the US. Doesn't it kinda owe rather a lot of money to a certain very large communist country?
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#1234600 - 07/21/09 01:13 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13802
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I'm not saying capitalism is perfect.

I rather like the Churchill quote:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

The same is true for capitalism I think. laugh
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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1234602 - 07/21/09 01:14 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
AZNpiano Offline
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Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Doesn't it kinda owe rather a lot of money to a certain very large communist country?



Bravo!!
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#1234608 - 07/21/09 01:21 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Kreisler]
keyboardklutz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I'm not saying capitalism is perfect.

I rather like the Churchill quote:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

The same is true for capitalism I think. laugh
Here's a quote from me - "Without Chinese communist slave labour the American economy would have collapsed several times over."

Try reading Das Kapital. Marx points out that capitalism can only survive through finding cheaper labour markets.

And yeh, right on AZN!.
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#1234635 - 07/21/09 03:10 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
landorrano Offline
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Loc: France
I heard the singer Angela Gheorgiu recently on the radio, talking about her education in Rumania under "communism".

Anyone who heard that would turn off their innovative Skype lesson and pack their suitcase, firstclass to the Eastern Block, for a place in a killed-innovation conservatory.



Originally Posted By: Kreisler


This is exactly why we have capitalism.

This is why communist economies fail.


Boyscout economics like that is hard to stomach, first thing in the morning.


Originally Posted By: Kreisler


A case in point - the XBOX 360 costs more to make than it sells for. ( Read this article... ) But Microsoft knew people wouldn't pay $715 for the console, so they priced it at a loss and found other ways to make up the shortfall (Live memberships, game and accessory sales, etc...)



That's pure AgitProp, and I don't believe a word of it.

Besides, it in no way confirms your point.


Edited by landorrano (07/21/09 03:11 AM)

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#1234640 - 07/21/09 03:27 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
Andromaque Offline
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Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
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Very interesting comments from tax haven Andorra! laugh

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#1234666 - 07/21/09 06:25 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Andromaque]
JBiegel Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
[In a capitalist and democratic society], I have decided on my own free will to lower the cost per lesson using Skype as an introductory offer. The link is:
http://www.pianoworld.com/Piano_Lessons_Online.html
Reason? Many people do not know my teaching, and, if only by the videos provided, they cannot understand the transition of playing in the student. Makes sense then, to offer this new means of teaching in a more affordable manner to start.
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#1234675 - 07/21/09 07:22 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
WillisWill Offline
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Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 125
Loc: Charlottesville, VA
Originally Posted By: landorrano
I heard the singer Angela Gheorgiu recently on the radio, talking about her education in Rumania under "communism".

Anyone who heard that would turn off their innovative Skype lesson and pack their suitcase, firstclass to the Eastern Block, for a place in a killed-innovation conservatory.



crap like this is hard to take, especially first thing in the morning. communist countries are/have been typically quite good at identifying extremely talented individuals, whether in art, sport or whatever, and giving them excellent training and very comfortable lifestyles. however, anyone who was not a member or the cultural/social elite would have likely had a very different experience in romania under the communist regime. i doubt there will ever be a conclusive answer as to how many hundred of thousands, if not millions, were killed between 1945-1989.

capitalism can run amok, just like any other system. however, we are not executing anyone, or allowing mob justice or riots to run through the streets.
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#1234701 - 07/21/09 08:32 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: WillisWill]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5607
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
Amazing how far off topic you folks can drift.

Please get back on topic, or start another thread.
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#1234712 - 07/21/09 09:30 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: landorrano]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: landorrano
I heard the singer Angela Gheorgiu recently on the radio, talking about her education in Rumania under "communism".

Anyone who heard that would turn off their innovative Skype lesson and pack their suitcase, firstclass to the Eastern Block, for a place in a killed-innovation conservatory.



Ah yes, those heady days living under the benign, cultivated boot reign of Nicolae Ceausescu.

Anyway, back on topic. There are challenges to online lessons, no doubt, but if Mr. Biegel can show that he's up to the challenges, and there is a market, and the lessons are priced right, then it seems like something interesting to follow.

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#1235016 - 07/21/09 07:06 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Phlebas]
ProdigalPianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 1049
Loc: Phoenix Metro, AZ
Personally, I find it interesting that this topic gets so much attention on, of all places, the teacher's forum.

Having grown up in The Middle of Nowhere ("it's not the end of the earth, but you can see it from the top of the grain elevator"), I can tell you that it's all a matter of perspective.

There are piano teachers (likely not good ones, mind you) who I can guarantee you right now are thinking "Who could charge more than $12 an hour for a piano lesson??? Are they crazy??" and who would be equally bewildered as to why anyone would get a college degree in pedagogy or even basic training in how to teach piano.

As long as you can play advanced stuff like Fur Elise or the "hard" keys out of the hymnal down at the church, you sure know enough to teach. wink
_________________________
Adult Amateur Pianist

My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.

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#1235219 - 07/22/09 06:28 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: ProdigalPianist]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
I remember seeing ads for piano lessons in Virginia some years ago for $20 an hour!? At the time I was charging $40 in the UK.
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1235268 - 07/22/09 09:32 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: keyboardklutz]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Times have indeed changed. I did lower the Skype fee to $75 per hour. Seems fair and reasonable as an introductory offer.
_________________________
www.jeffreybiegel.com

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#1235774 - 07/23/09 07:47 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
I am doing an interview today (July 23) with a writer at the Ledger-Enquirer in Columbus, Georgia regarding online teaching. I will share it when it comes out with the Forum here.
_________________________
www.jeffreybiegel.com

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#1237472 - 07/26/09 02:17 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
Opus_Maximus Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/04
Posts: 1494
It depends. There are several reasons.

If you contact a teacher at a renowned music conservatory or university with a strong music department for a "trial" lesson, the going rate ranges from about 100-250 USD, in my experience. From what I understand, this is simply because that is how much they WOULD be getting paid per hour by the school. (proportional to the tuition you would be paying.)

For private teachers charging this much, for the most part, it has to do with teachers who are able to attract students with enough seriousness-of-purpose about their piano playing, and, subsequently, willingness to pay whatever price. Usually these are students who are planning to have careers as pianists or have an extreme dedication to it as an extra-curricular activity.

These teachers themselves, in order to command the fee, must have at some point gone through the same hoops that their students are going through (Preparing for conservatory auditions, planning repertoire for competitions, playing recitals, etc, etc). But most importantly - be familiar with ALL facets of the professional piano world: having knowledge of all the standard repertory as well having performed a good deal of it yourself, knowing who teaches at which schools, having connections with presenters and managers who can showcase your best students, knowing which competitions and music festivals to send your students to, knowing all the great recordings of the pieces your students are playing so you can share them with them, having had enough of your own successes and failures as a performer to be able to pep talk your students.

All of this knowledge is garnered via years of training, experience, and sacrafice that are similar to a specialist in any other given field. (law, medicine, engineering, psychology, etc).

You need to have a history of good students as well...or at least enough good students for people to hear them in festivals and competitions and go "oh...I wonder who HER teacher is.."

Also, as Kreisler mentioned, it depends on where you are located. There are certain parts of the USA where living expenses are so cheap that you would charge whatever is relative to 100 (or whatever) in you area.


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#1237524 - 07/26/09 09:29 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: Opus_Maximus]
JBiegel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 850
Each teacher must set their fees accordingly. Having studied with Adele Marcus and teaching worldwide in master classes, privately and in institutions, I arrived at the lowest fee that would be agreeable in accordance with my experience. My students perform, teach and I went through the rigors of my own training with Ms. Marcus to qualify me to do the same. As I said, each teacher must set their own fees, and each prospective student must reserach the teacher through word of mouth, check out the forum posts in the history of the member, and have a conversation with the teacher via email or phone before deciding they can get something valuable from that teacher.
_________________________
www.jeffreybiegel.com

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#1240327 - 07/30/09 12:47 PM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: JBiegel]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4978
Loc: boston north
Jeffrey,

A telephone number for contacting you would be appreciated. This might help for those that have some questions about lessons via skype (including me) who might be interested in lessons.

Did I miss it somewhere?

I left a message via Yahoo contact info from your website.

Just thought you might like to add this to your info somewhere.

A Frustrated LL ;-)
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1240745 - 07/31/09 02:22 AM Re: I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour [Re: lilylady]
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2919
Loc: UK.
Out of interest, this week I had to see a solicitor for some legal advice. The appointment cost £250 (about $400) for just over an hour. It makes Jeffrey look like a bargain. Perhaps we should all re-train?
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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