Piano work is pretty cheap to get into. The tools are not expensive, nor are the most commonly used supplies. Yet when I refer to the Steinway Technical Guide CD, it seems like some people here seem to be too cheap to get it.

You can probably get enough equipment to get started in the business for under $500, and earn enough to do most of the repairs you can reasonably be expected to be asked to do when you have made another $500 or so.

I have two pretty complete sets of my field service tools, so that if I lose anything, I do not have to wait until an order gets to me in order to be able to do what has to be done. It is just not that expensive.

How many of you are as well equipped? Do you have the Steinway CD? If you are not, do you think that you might not be putting as much money into your business as you should be?

Well... let's see... I currently have the Potter course tools, a SAT III, and a $75 Schaff hammer... and can't really afford much else right now. (I'm not at the National convention this year - I don't want to be ~$500-1000 in debt.)

I never even heard of the Steinway CD before but why should I buy it? What could be on it that I don't already know? If I bought it, it would not make any difference in my business whatsoever; I would only have wasted my money on it. Some of us have found other paths to success, you know. We don't need to be preached to about what we should spend our money on.

BDB,

Calling other people cheap doesn't seem (to me) a nice way to make friends on the forum.

I guess your point must be that you are surprised that not more folks have invested in the Steinway CD. If you want to encourage others to explore what you have found to be a useful part of your library, how about tell us what has been the most useful and or interesting things you have gained from it.

Shaming people into joining PTG doesn't work very well either. People have to see how something will benefit them before they put their money and energy towards it.

I do not think that there is any necessity for me to explain why one should have whatever service literature there is from a manufacturer. Even if there is nothing in it new, there is value in knowing that it agrees (or disagrees) with what you know.

I would think that if the goal of the PTG is to improve the craft, new information from a manufacturer should be the sort of thing that they would encourage every member to be familiar with.

If you want a review, I will say that there is more information than in the previous version of the service manual that I have, particularly the differences between NY and Hamburg instruments, as well as hammer voicing. There is information on Hamburgs that will come in handy if you run across one, like servicing the pedals, or adjusting the downward pressure of the keyblocks on the keyframe.

There is a lot of information that is left out. Unfortunately, this is a problem with every manufacturer's information I have seen. I suppose if there information were better received by the service community, they would spend more time on it.

I have a copy of most of the service manuals for most brands of pianos. Most were given to me by the manufacturer's during either a seminar at some point or by meeting with them during a visit in town to the local dealership.

However, the little blue one with the specs of all (or most) manufacturer's is what I carry and use most often anyway.

I do have a double set and even triple of some tools. That, does come in very handy when you've set something somewhere in plain sight yet, you can't seem to locate it when it is setting right there in front of you.

Unfortunately, the little blue book's most important function is to show how similar the specifications were for most pianos back in the day when it was compiled.

It would be nice if manufacturers were better at disseminating information about features unique to their pianos, like which keys to lift to get to the leveling screws on a Hamilton upright. Steinway mentions that for adjusting upright sostenutos.

They are all under black keys on the Hamilton, about midway in each section and in the center. If it is not under one, then it is under the other. Who needs a manual for that? I never use regulating specs and never measure anything, so why would I need to look in some manual for specifications? I took both the regulating and voicing seminars at Steinway, so I know how they do it and it's not by measuring anything. I'm not going to buy a CD that tries to tell me what I already know but leaves out key information. I might as well buy a Hanna Montana CD.

I believe the root of BDB's original post lies in the other thread about bedding the front rail on a Steinway grand:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1228896

BDB brought up the fact that the latest Steinway Manual (there is a version on CD) states that the Hamburg keyframe front rail should be bedded so the ends don't knock. To BDB's credit he is the only one who brought that up.

My big concern with the thread was that the distinction between NY and Hamburg was not made initially and this could lead to a problem if a unwary tech took that information and applied it wrongly.

BDB's point was that the manual is very affordable and that it's worth getting. I whole-heartedly agree. It's been on my list of things to buy the past couple of years, but time flies and it just hasn't made it into my library yet. Not because I'm "cheap" but because I've been busy and it hasn't been a priority.

BDB's post regarding the front rail bedding of the Hamburg reminded me that it's high time to get the manual. I think it's only $60 or so. When it comes to these things, even if you gain one or two little tid-bits, it will totally be worth it.

I've collected quite a few manuals over the years, and it is interesting to compare different manufacture's approaches to service.

It would be a valuable service if PTG could provide the current editions of all the service manuals available in the industry, including out of print manuals from companies that are defunct. It would be great to have them in a binder format so pages could be added and removed.

Of course it would probably be best if this could all be in some sort of PDF format that would be easy to search, and updates would be very easy to add.

Still...there's something about sitting down with a hard copy. Maybe we could get all this info on something like the Amazon Kindle e-book. Wouldn't be cool to have every service manual, journal article, class notes, etc on one handheld, easy-to-read unit? Techs of the future may have all the information ever published about pianos on their latest Kindles.

Thanks for the heads up, BDB. I just think its important to communicate these ideas in as positive a way as possible. People's feelings are easily tweaked, and putting them on the defensive makes them less open to learning, in general. (although sometimes technicians can be kinda cheap! )

I would imagine, that goes without even saying which is probably why nobody said it as all keybeds should be bedded without knocking.

IMO, All manuals regardless of what they call for are really only guidelines anyway. Most often including using the little blue book, the specs are just that, specs. Do this, do that. Guidelines.

I regulate according to what feels best for that particular piano. Not according to what some Chinese manufacturer tells me how it should be because half the time they aren't correct anyway.

But Jerry,

New York Steinways are supposed to knock. Kent Web will be at the conference - you can ask him.

The front rail is supposed to knock only on the very ends so that when the cheeks are tightened down, there will be gentle pressure on the keyframe end pins, which will eliminate the knock.

I feel like I'm knockin' on heavens door.

Of course, I was only yanking BDB's chain, as he often likes to yank mine. I like Ryan's suggestion that PTG compile as much information as possible, put it in downloadable form (PDF) for all who need and want it. There really is so much information that a single compilation would fill a bookshelf. I have many old manuals and many back up tools. It all comes with decades of being in the business.

In my lifetime, I could count the number of Hamburg Steinways I have seen on one hand. One was in Mexico City but the keyframe knocking was not an issue. I do remember, however, what an issue Bill Garlick made in 1986 at the Steinway regulation seminar about how the ends of the front rail were *supposed* to knock and the keyblocks took care of that. We were issued these special springs that were for holding the ends of the front rail down when we didn't have the keyblocks screwed down tightly. I still have them and I still use them on occasion.

Do YOU have those springs!!!??? If not, you better not be so CHEAP and buy some! Otherwise, how could you EVER service a Steinway properly? Hmmm? The truth is, you don't really need them, they are just handy and mostly factory workers use them. Some big spring clamps will work just as well but I don't even usually need those. Other pianos have the same characteristics. When the keyblocks don't eliminate the problem, that is when you need to find a solution.

In my experience, bedding of the keyframe in grands is an over rated concern most of the time. If it knocks, yes, you have to fix that first. Most keyframes that most technicians have to work with have settled for so long that they need no attention. There are so many other points which really do need work such as proper hammer to string alignment, tightening of flanges and a basic hammer line. Get those right and everything else pretty much falls into place.

Thanks for that correction Ryan.

Were you "knocking" my post? Next time "knock" harder and I'll open the door and see if anyone is home.

You must be the tuner for Fort Knocks. This is getting bad...better knock of the puns!

...knock it off you guys...

;-)

If I knock on wood, will that knock it off?

I think I'm a chip off the old block.

I won't knock your sense of humor, but If you knock mine, I'll knock your block off!

Okay! I won't knock your sense of humor because you know why???

Knock Knock
Who's there?
Aaron!
Aaron who!
I'm Aaron on the side of caution!

Knock Knock
Who's there?
Acid!
Acid who?
Acid down and be quiet!

Knock Knock
Who's there?
Adam!
Adam who?
Adam if I do and adam if I don't!

I'm still reading this!

Its drifting OT...and I like it...

It must be something I ate...

RPD

Hello BDB,

I decided to take your suggestion re the Steinway CD.

Several days after your post appeared, I contacted Steinway & Sons via their online contact form . I was very polite and explained to them that even though I am not affiliated with a Steinway dealer, I do have several dozen customers that own Steinways of various ages and types. I also included that I am a school-trained tuner and that I've been in business since 1979.

I further explained that I would like to purchase their CD so that I could have their own recommendations as to the care of these pianos.

Steinway has yet to reply... even in the negative.

So, where and how do I acquire this CD?

Thanks,
-Joe

That does seem odd. I have a parts account with Steinway without affiliation to any Steinway dealer. I have an old service manual which they sent me just for the asking. Try the service department, or the parts department.

It appears that that both the www.steinway.com and www.steinwayhall.com sites are directed at the general public. So, there are no links for piano tuners.

However, there are phone numbers.

I'll try phoning sometime in the next few days when I get a chance.

Thanks!

They're at the PTG convention this week. You'll probably hear back from them next week.

That makes sense!

Thanks!