I purchased this beautiful 1928 MH A a few years ago from its original and only owner, a concert pianist, with the intention of doing a full or partial rebuild one day. In the last month as I scope out the rebuilders, learn about parts, have the piano evaluated by 3 different technicians, I am getting completely drawn in and maybe way over my head, although I'm learning a lot. I've almost decided on the approach; have these guys do the full rebuild and the other guys the refinishing. Is this logistically possible with minimum fuss? I was at the factory today and the description of the process of both rebuild and refinish makes me wonder whether separating the two jobs will be easily executable. Any thoughts on this?

I've been told that the soundboard is in great condition and would not need replacing. But I've also been told by some that after 70 years, it probably should be replaced anyway, and that we really don't know how good that soundboard will be or how it will react in the process of unstringing and restringing. So, let's say I take that risk and there's the added cost and loss of the original....ok I can live with that risk. But can I solicit some feedback on that comment? I've heard also of the "lifecycle" of a soundboard. What does that mean?

Hammers are another issue, I've read a lot both on these forums and elsewhere and listened to the rebuilts with different hammers. But I feel like I want to go with Abels based on what I've read---unfortunately, I haven't been able to locate a rebuilt Mason with Abels to listen to in Manhattan. Any opinions on the Abels on the Mason (vs. Renner Blues/NY Steinway)? And so what if I go with the Abels without having listened to them? At the end of the day, any of these will all have to be voiced and broken in over time to my preference, no?

Finally, I am invited to listen to and play a rebuilt Mason 1919 AA. Gorgeous sound. Mellow warmth of the MH sound I love. Well, it's bigger, yes the sound is larger as well, and the price point, if I trade in my A to offset, will approximately be the same cost as to rebuild the A---and I get the AA. So, what to do? I had a dream for my A, I loved this piano, it represents my dream to reclaim my piano playing past. But I hear the AA..and I waiver.

So does size really matter? (I can fit the extra half foot in my Manhattan apartment). And cost being about the same. Then is it just a matter of my heart?

Or, does this just open up a whole new can of worms, need to have someone look at it. I did not get to specify the insides--I think they are Steinway hammers, Renner action--I don't get the full rebuilder's warranty--I am told they rebuilt it 5-7 years ago and it was sold back to them for reasons unrelated to the piano itself....but if I'm going to buy a new/rebuilt piano instead of rebuilding my own, shouldn't I then really throw myself into the search, is this really the one??? I've not played or looked for pianos lately with an eye to buying one of them, so this would be a whole new project...

Apologies for the long post; I've refrained from asking anything or posting anything thus far, trying to glean from existing threads, but now I'm stuck.

Thanks for any comments in advance!
sparkny

Why not buy an A that has already been redone? then you know what you are getting. In my opinion it would be a poor plan to divide the work yourself. If the rebuilder subcontracts the finishing that's OK. Then all the refitting of the hardware etc, gets done right. Someone should be overseeing the final outcome.

Steinway hammers on a M&H? Maybe Ronson hammers. I don't think anyone would spend the extra $500 for the Steinway hammers. They aren't as good and wouldn't match the board in an A. Maybe a AA because it has a wider board. Still....

The larger piano may sound great in the bigger showroom but will it sound the same when you put it in a small apt?

Refinishing and rebuilding always takes careful coordination and planning.
If the rebuilder does both it may be better because it is inevitable that there will be some touch up work required after plate installation, stringing, assembly etc.
I prefer to refinish before installing a new board.
Refinishing is easier when the piano is completely disassembled and all parts to be refinished are exposed.
Shop exposure (the rebuilding part) of a refinished piano: their is risk of minor finish damage that will need touch up.
Sending the piano back to the refinisher can get expensive.
If you love the piano, do it right - put the new board in it.
You can go back into the acrhives and find lots of threads on opinions about installing a new board or not installing one. In my opinion I would install a new one on a 70 year old piano as boards wear out for physical reasons.
Have the work done by competent people that know what they are doing and have a good reputation.
Although I like the Steinway hammer I agree with Kieth about the price and his choice for Ronson - I like Isaacs or Classical West as well.

I think making false statements and using one's own opinion as a statement of fact is grossly irresponsible in this forum. This is a place for professionals and amateurs to exchange information and opinions.....any opinions should be stated as such and not thrown out there as a fact.
I agree that Steinway hammers MAY not be the right way to go on an M & H ....But this nonsense. .....QUOTE...."I don't think anyone would spend the extra $500 for the Steinway hammers. They aren't as good and wouldn't match etc......"

Steinway Hammers cost around $500
Ronson Hammers cost around $280 from Pianotek.....

Do you decide to deliberately miss inform? or are you just miss informed?
How did you arrive at the "Extra $500" ?
Why are Steinway Hammers "Not as good"?
How many times have you actually worked with a NEW set of Steinway Hammers?

I am not a technician but have witnessed quite a few rebuilds and am wondering if the advice to "put a new board in" if you love the piano won't result in a different piano sound? Maybe safer to buy a piano whose sound you like and is already restored as you don't know how a rebuild will sound until you have spent all your money. I personally always recommend to my friends - trade in the piano and buy what you can hear today rather than spend money on what you hope to hear tomorrow.

Grotriman,
A new board will sound different. The question is in relation to what?
The original sound of a 70 year old piano is long gone.
A new - well designed - board will give a wonderful sounding piano and it will be different - probably better than original. Scale design or redesign and hammers will also add to the tone color.
If you do not know a rebuilder that does high quality work then maybe you should play it safe.

I posted the same question about 4 years ago here on PW...do I replace the 80 year old soundboard in my 1925 M&Hamlin BB during it's rebuild. I received many different responses, replace it, don't replace it, maybe replace it because it may fail in a few years...all legitimate answers depending on one's perspective.

At the time I was trying to decide this, the soundboard sounded fine, no major issues. Del Fandrich gave an excellent response, saying that if the soundboard was still good at this time, chances are it would not fail in the near future, especially since it was a M&Hamlin.

I took Del's advice and did not replace it. I am happy to say that the original board is going strong to this day. Here is a sound file I made last week, played on my LX playback system. There were also some other modifications to the piano which I will post about at a later date that have helped the sound and tone of the piano immensely, including a new set of fantastic hammers that have contributed considerably in bringing out the tone you hear now. As you can hear, the original soundboard is far from dead. The tuning is from my RCT Cybertuner, OS5.

This was originally a WAV file, recorded with my Zoom H4 using 2 Rode N5 mics, using Audacity to convert to MP3, and no processing or reverb added.

http://www.box.net/shared/gdl2r08xy2 "Sleepless in Seattle" MP3

http://www.box.net/shared/z5mmlkugmf (original WAV file 65mb "Sleepless in Seattle")

http://www.box.net/shared/g63xlxj4og "Somewhere in Time" MP3

Hey John/grandpianoman I thought you'd like to see your old vintage Mason & Hamlin A which you know I got from Randy a while back. As you can see I replaced the soundboard,bridges,ribs.Looks a bit different now and sounds awesome!. That soundboard was in ruff condition.

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/WhieKawaiKG2E019.jpg
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/WhieKawaiKG2E020.jpg
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/WhieKawaiKG2E024.jpg
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/WhieKawaiKG2E017.jpg

Excuse the dust factor! You can probably appreciate the pics in that you've now seen it before and after.

Hey, John,

I enjoyed your arrangements. And that beautiful MH!

Swoon!!!

Hi Tony,

Wow, that looks great....I wanted to get down you way to see it last year, but was too busy.....that piano had such a beautiful tone before, and I am sure it sounds incredible now. Too bad I can't buy it back!!! Can you send or post a recording of it...that would be great...perhaps of you playing it!

Thanks lilylady....now I must say with all modesty, that is not my playing...it's Brian Pezzone playing the LX! www.live-performance.com

A few modifications were done to my RBB, which I will post about in the near future, along with a couple more recordings of the LX. These modifications had a tremendous affect on the tone/timbre of the piano, the tonal beauty and the sustain are something else, especially in person.

ps. Here is another Pezzone selection on the Stahnke LX "Out of Africa" recorded at the same time as the above 2 pieces. Also, I did the tuning with the Reyburn Cyber Tuner pocket PC, OS5 for those who use this device...wonderful machine for all of us who can't tune by ear This OS5 stretch is a perfect match for this RBB. The hardest part for my tuning is the stability once I tune it....still learning that aspect.

http://www.box.net/shared/k0dt6kua2g

My friend had Renner hammers put on his 1929 AA M&H during the rebuild process--fantastic!

Hey John,
I as well enjoyed your MH PIANO. THE LX sysyem and the music on your files are wonderful. I was enjoying my LX system on my Feurich today while it was raining. Oh such bliss. Life is good.



Terry C.

Thanks Terry....the LX is a lot of fun!.....here is another one..."The Age of Innocence" p/b B. Pezzone on the LX http://www.box.net/shared/2uxn31qs8u