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Has anyone played a lot of Messiaen? Maybe a bit of Messiaen..?
I've learnt Vingt Regards no.16 and am now going for no.15 - what a piece! It absolutely melts my heart, it is actually too beautiful for words. It just prompts so many nativity images in my head, it's incredible. I also kind of think of Christmas until Le Jardin. I'd just like to hear general thoughts on this particular piece or Messiaen in general. Also, if you've had a go, any advice would be great (and what you thought was the most difficult). seems a bit long-ish so right now I've just divided them into sections because that seemed like the logical thing to do? The sections are quite obvious.

Also, could someone translate these, tried an online translation thing but could barely understand it.

1. un court pount d'orgue sur la triple croche (Durand Edition, third page)

2. A chaque communion, l'Enfant-Jésus dort avec nous prés de la porte; puis il l'ouvre sur le jardin et se précipite á toute lumiére pour nous embrasser

3. Une gravure m'a inspiré, qui représente l'Enfant-Jésus quittant les bras de sa Mére pour embrasser la petite soeur Thérese. Tout ceci est symbole de la communion, de l'amour divin. Il faut aimer pour aimer ce suget et cette musique qui voudraient étre tendres comme le coeur du ciel, et il n'y a rien d'autre.

Thanks.

OH also, I just remembered something my teacher told me, a pianist (don't remember whom) was having a masterclass with Messiaen, and he kept getting the notes wrong (you know the bits where Messiaen tries to imitate birds.. they're E VE RY WHERE) and so Messiaen just says "F--- the notes!"
Basically, my teacher was trying to tell me that with Messiaen, it has a lot to do with "effects". If you manage to achieve the right effects, succeed in being convincing, you've won half the battle. Any thoughts?

1) a short "point d'orgue" on the 32nd note

2)at each communion, the child Jesus sleeps with us near the door; then he opens it onto the garden and precipitates like light to embrace us.

3)An engraving inspired me, which represents the child Jesus leaving the arms of his Mother to embrace the little sister Teresa. All this is the symbol of the communion, of divine love. One must love in order to love this subject and this music which would want to be tender like the heart of heaven, and there is nothing more.

I'll make an attempt at the translation. Haven't played any Messiaen myself, but I can say that I turned pages for a concert of Le Quatuor pour le Fin du Temps (Quartet for the End of Time), and that was one of the most moving experiences I've ever had. You talked about effects. The first movement of the quartet has a violin and clarinet playing early morning bird songs. Comparing the concert and the recording - the violinist in the recording was stunning, how well he imitated the birds. The violinist at the concert didn't do quite so well.

1. un court pount d'orgue sur la triple croche (Durand Edition, third page)
TR: A short organ point (= pedal point?) on the triplet.


2. A chaque communion, l'Enfant-Jésus dort avec nous prés de la porte; puis il l'ouvre sur le jardin et se précipite á toute lumiére pour nous embrasser
TR: At each communion, the child Jesus sleeps with us close to the door; then he opens it to the garden, and the light hurries in to embrace us.


3. Une gravure m'a inspiré, qui représente l'Enfant-Jésus quittant les bras de sa Mére pour embrasser la petite soeur Thérese. Tout ceci est symbole de la communion, de l'amour divin. Il faut aimer pour aimer ce suget et cette musique qui voudraient étre tendres comme le coeur du ciel, et il n'y a rien d'autre.
TR: An engraving (artwork) inspired me, which shows the Christ child leaving the arms of his mother to embrace the little sister Theresa. All this is symbolic of the communion,of the divine love. You must love in order to love this subject and this music which would like to be temder like the heart of heaven, and there isn't anything else.

so "triple croche" translates to 32nd note and "double croche" translates to 16th note? I was mistaken above, triolet = triplet.

What's the point of having a pedal point on the 32nd note?

I think that in this case, a point d'orgue means a pause or fermata.

I haven't looked at the score, but if it is a point d'orgue above the note it means a prolongation. If it is below the note at the end of a measure it could mean a pause.

triple croche = 32nd note

double croche = 16th note

croche = 8th note

It's great that you got some free translation work done for you here on the forum, but just in case such work is not available, I would like to bring to the attention of you and other forum members a website called Elance at http://www.elance.com.

Elance is a virtual market where those who desire services can put out requests for bids on providing the service from service providers world wide. It is a "self-policing" community as well where both sides of a transaction, i.e., employer and provider, get to rate each other.

I recently had some Chinese newspaper performance reviews I wanted translated; machine translations were unusable, so I put the job up for bid along with what i wanted translated on Elance. I had nearly a dozen bids on the job within 48 hours with prices ranging from $40 to $300. I picked one of the $50 bidders and had a usable translation in hand within 72 hours of accepting his bid.

Good luck with your Messiaen work.

Thanks very much for the translations. I actually have absolutely no clue what point d'orgue means. I am practising this on my own at the moment so I can play it for my teacher when I go back to uni in September.



So the single star in blue, thats where Messiaen says:
Ralentir la derniére croche de la mesure, ralentir les derniers battements du trille, un court point d'orgue sur la triple croche; la pédale tient pendant la virgule; id. aux passages similaires.

I kind of understand the rest of that sentence, I think it roughly says to slow down the last 8th note, slow down the last beats of the trill, and hold the pedal during the comma, excluding that point d'orgue bit.

I think in this context he probs meant just a general slowing down of the 4th quaver beat so the point d'orgue would most likely mean a slight prolongation of the 32nd note?? I really don't know?

Google Translate renders "un court point d'orgue sur la triple croche" as "a short highlight of the demisemiquaver", so maybe "highlight" or "bringing out" is a more relevant notion than "pedal point".

In my recording of the piece (Yvonne Loriod), she slows the trill down until the last note of the trill becomes that final distinct 32nd note. Trill merging into pickup note. Beautiful effect, beautiful piece, distilled essence of Messiaen. Good luck with it!

You can trust my translation above, no point in trying to better it.

It is not a highlight that he asks for, it's a point d'orgue. I think that Messian knew what he was jotting down.

A point d'orgue is a prolongation, the duration of which is decided by the fancy of the musician. "Short point d'orgue" somewhat limits the fancy of the musician.

But then how long is "short"?