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#1235324 - 07/22/09 11:09 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
happylucky Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 2
Loc: singapore
hi all,

thanks for your advice. the problem is i dont know much about piano thus have no idea of how to test the piano in term of sound and action, let alone feel.. am in fact buying piano for my daughter who is just a beginner.
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#1235328 - 07/22/09 11:12 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
Nikkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 50
me me..aiyo jay chow so very good...my gal like him so much..how i encourage her to practise piano?? i say 'u wan to play like him, must practise very hard know', i even went to youtube to search his cnn interview and show her, she heard him saying 'yes, i practise very hard, 2 to 3 hours a day'..

so what piano jay chow use huh??

I buy the same then can play like him lor...ho..ho..

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#1235331 - 07/22/09 11:16 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]
Nikkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 50
happy lucky, u in same situation as me lei..donno piano buy buy for daughter who's beginner..

then u must try Hailun..read my previous tread (not long ago), see wat snoopycar, bihua, fj_s and other experts say..

(halo uncle jason (PianoMaster) want to start giving me commission already??)

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#1235336 - 07/22/09 11:26 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]
Nikkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 50
Happylucky

As wat the expert say in this forum, go try those high end one, don care can afford or not, after trying many, u'll be able to differentiate the sound etc.

then go down the list and get that one that's closest to your expectation and budget.

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#1235373 - 07/22/09 12:23 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]
Chee Yang Chen Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 4
Loc: Singapore
What do you think of the resale value of keyboards such as CLPS308?

And still quite torn over the bohemia one...

Will the bohemia one be better than the keyboard? laugh


Edited by Chee Yang Chen (07/22/09 12:25 PM)

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#1235690 - 07/22/09 11:32 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Chee Yang Chen]
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
CYC,

Wow! A new CLPS308 cost about $5k+ leh! (According to the Yamaha's website) If like that, might as well get an acoustic piano? Unless it is very important for you to be able to play silently. But not forgetting that most acoustic piano has the practice pedal to help soften the sound when necessary.

You can check out the usual resale value of Clavinovas in eBay or any auction website. But usually I feel that the resale demand for lower end DPs are higher than those higher ends one. Coz for someone to pay 3k+ for a used DP (Digital Piano), I think pple will rather buy a used acoustic piano. And I always see some advertisments in the ebay like forever, weeks after weeks, but no buyers. And the seller keeps dropping the price, until give up and decided to keep the DP themselves.

Also, not forgetting that DPs are very technology based. When a model is new, it will be ex. Maybe after 3 years, new models with new functions comes out, better dynamic sampling, maybe GH4 hammers, then the value of what you bought which used to be the "top of the range" becomes their new basic model, selling at 1k+. Very much like cameras, laptops and so on. So, DP do depreciates rather significantly.

My view is that a decent acoustic piano is better than a DP, unless you really need the silent function. But of coz, got to tune 6-monthly, or at least one a year.

Decide your budget first, then decide if u want a DP or acoustic piano, then go try out more pianos then decide what to buy...enjoy!

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#1235699 - 07/22/09 11:52 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Bihua]
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
If you are looking to buy a digital piano, I recommend that you go to Swee Lee and try out the Roland HP-207 (which they usually don't have in the showroom, but you can try the lower HP range). I have played a lot on the majority of the Yamaha DPs in the Yamaha showroom in Plaza Singapura, wearing my own audiophile-quality headphones. In terms of touch, tone, and tone modulation the Roland keyboards are superior to those from Yamaha. To me at least.

Generally, you can and should do your homework on the Web -- there is a LOT of information there (including in PW!).

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#1235736 - 07/23/09 02:02 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Digitus]
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
If you price conscious and want a new digital piano, can try Luther Music at Excelsior Shopping Centre (near Funan). They sell Yamaha, Casio, Korg and forgot what brands. They might be able to quote a cheaper price too...

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#1236424 - 07/24/09 10:41 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Bihua]
jnchoy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 8
Been looking at the posting from this thread and hope to receive advice on what piano i should be buying. I'm in my mid 30s.. picked up piano 6 months ago, partly for myself as my childhood dream is to play the piano and partly for my 3 year old son.. monkey see monkey do.. so i hope he will be curious and interested in piano seeing me play.

I have a Yamaha P85 at home but the idea of buying an acoustic piano lingers. I hope to be able to take exam also.. so for finger training it would be best if i get an acoustic.

Alright, the above are just some background.. la soh hor.. anyway... I came across two pianos but not sure which one i should get (btw, I have not view the piano myself. Mainly just called the owner to check on the pricing..)

1st - a 7 years old wilh. steinberg piano. It would be nice to own a German piano but about $2K beyond my original budget..
or
2nd - a 4years steinrich piano. According to the owner, it's made in Japan. Price quoted is within my budget.. in fact very much within..

I'm in a dilemma which one i should choose. I know i need to look at the piano first but.. i don't know how to examine piano since i started not too long ago.. what should i do? How much would it cost to get a professional piano tuner to assess the piano condition from me?

Appreciate any advice - Thanks!

Best, Lucida

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#1236492 - 07/24/09 12:14 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: jnchoy]
fj_s Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Singapore
First, Wilh. Steinberg makes nice pianos, possible better than Yamaha/Kawai. Check the serial number for the age.

Second, Steinrich ceased production in 1988. There's no way the 2nd piano is 4 years old only. However, what little information is out there suggests that they made decent pianos.

Third, pick the nicest sounding piano with the best action within your budget. If looking for used, best to find a piano tech to help you out. Else, buy it from one of the more reputable stores. Check the strings, soundboard, pedals, etc. There's a sticky thread that tells you what to look out for in used pianos in this forum, so do a search.
_________________________
In progress

Mozart: Sonata in D Major, k576
Chopin: Polonaise in A-flat major, Op 53
Berg: Sonata in B minor, Op 1
Bach: Partita in C Minor, BWV 826

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#1236551 - 07/24/09 01:17 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]
Nikkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 50
fj_s,

if Wilh. Steinberg makes better piano than Yamaha/Kawai, $2k for 7 yr old not too bad hor.. but still must see the model and condition lah..

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#1236900 - 07/24/09 11:10 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]
fj_s Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Singapore
I think he said it's $2k out of his budget. Not sure what his budget is though. ;-)

And yes, must see model and condition.

If it were $2k and only 7 years old, and regularly tuned, it would be a ridiculously good deal... ;-)
_________________________
In progress

Mozart: Sonata in D Major, k576
Chopin: Polonaise in A-flat major, Op 53
Berg: Sonata in B minor, Op 1
Bach: Partita in C Minor, BWV 826

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#1236956 - 07/25/09 03:10 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: jnchoy]
Roxane Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 932
Originally Posted By: jnchoy

1st - a 7 years old wilh. steinberg piano. It would be nice to own a German piano but about $2K beyond my original budget..


Originally Posted By: Nikkie
if Wilh. Steinberg makes better piano than Yamaha/Kawai, $2k for 7 yr old not too bad hor.. but still must see the model and condition lah..


whome

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#1236984 - 07/25/09 05:37 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Roxane]
Nikkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 50
ya ya..i know it's beyond his budget..i was jus commenting that the first deal was quite good based on fj_s comment..not saying he should choose the first one..

anyway, jnchoy, if this is your first call, should look ard for more option..

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#1236988 - 07/25/09 05:55 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]
jnchoy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 8
My budget is below $5K.. so the wilh. steinberg piano asking is about $7K. Didn't know that Steinrich is out of production already. Thanks so much for the information if not i would have been conned..

I went to take a look at the wilh. steinberg piano yesterday. last tuned was a year ago. However, the keys sound out of tuned so i couldn't really appreciate the sound made by the piano. Forgot to look at the serial number.. but remember from the card the owner shown been, the piano had been tuned about 7 times.. so i suppose now is the 8th year. Some strings looked "black" when i check the interior - i'm not sure if that is consider as rusty or just dirty.. Urmm.. how huh?

I think the price is negotiable but i dun want to buy back a piano with rusty strings.. In addition, i'm not sure if it's wise to spend more than $5K on a first piano and I'm still a beginner. My hubby say wait until i can play until "chu shen lu mo" than invest on a better piano. I agree with him but I was thinking nice to have a good piano right at the beginning.. maybe can motivate me better?

Or should i buy those more than 20 years Yamaha or Kawai piano from used piano shops?

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#1236991 - 07/25/09 06:07 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: jnchoy]
Nikkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 50
7k add another $300 can buy k3 liao, new one somemore, no need to worried so many things..

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#1236995 - 07/25/09 06:35 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]
jnchoy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 8
Hi Nikkie, I went to look at K3 before and I was totally pissed off by the service at Robert piano both in Centrepoint and the one at Millenia Walk. I think they look at people with their nose up high. I will never buy a Kawai!

Actually my hubby like the sound of Kohler & Campbell and wilh steinberg piano when we tried at Chiu's piano. The new steinberg is $16K!! Way beyond my budget (which is why i thought of a 2nd hand). The Kohler & Campbell piano is around $7.5K. But I am concern if it's a good piano as i read review saying that Yamaha U1 is a better piano. But I dun quite fancy Yamaha piano sound leh..

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#1237052 - 07/25/09 11:34 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: jnchoy]
Nikkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 50
i guess Robert Piano has different service standard..jus luck..

i've a few link tat rate pianos, but not sure how trust worthy they are. Just for info..

http://www.serve.com/marbeth/piano_brands.html
http://www.thepianoreview.com/piano-ratings.html
http://pianoshop.co.uk/info/ratings.php

Perhaps u may still want to look around for more comparison.

Hope it helps.

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#1237070 - 07/25/09 12:06 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: jnchoy]
chihuahua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 391
Loc: An Oligarchy
Originally Posted By: jnchoy
I think they look at people with their nose up high.


Pertaining to certain specimens of Homo sapiens i.e. THAT particular one, it's the aftermath of plastic surgery gone horribly wrong!

Didn't you see the triple eyelids as well ... I mean at the navel?
_________________________
Nepotism: We promote family values here - almost as often as we promote family members.

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#1237076 - 07/25/09 12:17 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: chihuahua]
Nikkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 50
very curious lei..which one, man or woman?? millenia walk one??

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#1237087 - 07/25/09 12:42 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]
fj_s Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Singapore
a. Black strings sound like a warning sign. Usually shouldn't happen unless the owner didn't really take care of the piano.

b. For $5000 you can buy a good china/korean piano, a used U3 from a reputable store, or a very very good digital. This includes a high end Yamaha or Kawai with wooden keys.

A digital can be silent and never goes out of tune, but the touch is different (less connection to the sound, plus the sound doesn't quite envelope you). In terms of touch sensitivity, it won't be as good, but it has other good features going for it. If you can get a good upright, I would always recommend it, but if not, a digital is quite good too.

c. I've gotten great service at Robert Piano at every branch I've been to. (Millenia Walk, Parkway, Centrepoint) I got to try every piano, no pressure sell, rare bad mouthing of other pianos (limited to factual feature comparison usually), and I could play as long as I want on every piano. I would probably recommend people to go back there. Perhaps YMMV.
_________________________
In progress

Mozart: Sonata in D Major, k576
Chopin: Polonaise in A-flat major, Op 53
Berg: Sonata in B minor, Op 1
Bach: Partita in C Minor, BWV 826

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#1237095 - 07/25/09 12:52 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]
Nikkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 50
fj_s, maybe u look pro so they don't dare to raise their nose..or u wear coat tat day??? ha ha...

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#1237145 - 07/25/09 02:14 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]
fj_s Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Singapore
Actually from the descriptions of various forumers it seems that the service at Robert Piano is random and depends on the mood of the sales person that day. Perhaps I am lucky to be there every time when they are in a good mood.

(Though apparently Chopin is a favourite of many of the sales people, so playing that puts them in a good mood. For example, at Centrepoint, one of the sales people was commenting to her colleague that Chopin's Etude Op10/3 was her favourite work.)

Most of the employees apparently worked there for quite a while, and it's not very commission based also, so they also quite bo chap, but it means that if you like pianos and are polite, they will respond positively.

Anyway they probably have one of the better product lineups around (i.e. wide range catering to a wide array of budgets), so they probably rely on that to sell more than anything else. Hence, I wouldn't write off Robert (they sell a good product at a decent, but not fantastic price) so quickly just because of that. In fact, if I ever have enough space, I might buy a grand from there. (The RX1 and RX2 are very nice indeed.)
_________________________
In progress

Mozart: Sonata in D Major, k576
Chopin: Polonaise in A-flat major, Op 53
Berg: Sonata in B minor, Op 1
Bach: Partita in C Minor, BWV 826

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#1237149 - 07/25/09 02:19 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]
fj_s Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Singapore
jnchoy,

Your hubby is an important stakeholder. Remember, he's the one having to listen (possibly to nasty, repetitive scales, and dissonant chords) while the others practice! So it's useful to have a tone that he likes.

For example, some people get very annoyed with bright tones. Others find the rumbling of a low bass very disturbing.

While you're at it, you may also consider saving $200+ and buying him a good set of noise canceling earphones.
_________________________
In progress

Mozart: Sonata in D Major, k576
Chopin: Polonaise in A-flat major, Op 53
Berg: Sonata in B minor, Op 1
Bach: Partita in C Minor, BWV 826

Top
#1238015 - 07/27/09 07:54 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
went to someones place to service piano, and was glancing through the bookshelf and a saw an erotic massage illustrate book .. laugh you know who you are ... kerkerker...
no big deal right? everybody must have one right ??
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB

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#1238101 - 07/27/09 11:23 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
jnchoy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 8
Hi fj_s/Nikkie, I wouldn't want to talk about my experience at Robert piano. Very tiring to even think about it. Perhaps i should not wear t-shirt and jean shirt and also to look like i will definitely spend my money there. Anyway, i prefer to talk about good service - Chiu Piano very good. Forgot that guy name.. was it william. So good. I went there like 3 times and he happily still explain to me patiently on the piano.. at one point i almost just want to spend $16K on the wilh. steinbach piano.. haha.. even thought of schimmel.. lucky managed to get myself back to the real world. Yamaha good also. They leave you to play and if you ask question they will answer in a very non-judgemental tone. Of course, they will just say their piano is the best lar.

Today talked to my new piano teacher.. apparently she had a Asahi that she used for 20 over years and she still got a degree in piano. So I was thinking actually any piano that has been established for some years would be good enough for me.

Maybe i should be more open-minded to look at new China or Korean piano that is below $5K range - any recommendation? Tot of those 20++years Yamaha piano but not sure on how long more the piano can "survive"..

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#1238172 - 07/27/09 01:06 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: jnchoy]
Nikkie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 50
If u see our Q&A earlier on (abt 2pgs b4 this), U can see fj_s comments on the Weber (bought over by Korean Brand but made in China).

I've tried PearlRiver, don really like it.

I've been to Chiu's Piano, ya they're nice pple. Tried the China made brand. Not too bad, but price still not good enough. Plus i didn't do much research on those brand.

My tot is if i'm buying China made brand, not only it must be cheap, but sound must be comparable (to me lah) to Yamaha or Kawai (Kiasu mindset, cheap n good).

So eventually, whether it's service, the piano look, the touch, the sound, I think I get a good deal.

Don't want to name it here, already mentioned many times before, else pple think why i keep promoting for them.

Maybe u want to try out yourself.

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#1238407 - 07/27/09 07:04 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]
snoopycar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 976
Loc: Singapore
Cina brand hv a price point to attain. Its economically priced ~3k. Generally have good german strings, nice parts. But my experience is it need to be worked on(reprep) to make to nice to play on, which i mean smooth to press, no double strikes, proper damper lift timing.... prepare to pay tech 4~10hrs of work smile
End result is very nice tonal timbre, buttery key touch, good n cheap. Try my pearlriver 118(a sample of what i can do) and you will know what i mean. <- is this subtle advertising? paisay..

your teacher hv Asahi for > 20yrs!! Nice to know.
So now you know it's not necessary to have a kawai or yamaha exam model to start learning jay chow ... hehehe
_________________________
Hailun dealer in Johor Bahru base in Ulu Tiram
Genio Silent system installer
Piano Tuner tech +65 90228720 Singapore & JB

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#1238509 - 07/27/09 09:27 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]
fj_s Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 169
Loc: Singapore
First, a good tech can do a lot to bring a cheaper piano up to scratch. This is particularly true for the newer Chinese pianos (as opposed to the older ones made say 10+ years ago that can't hold a tuning no matter what the tech does.) Good voicing and good regulation on a cheaper piano can make it better than an expensive piano that has not received as much care.

That being said, it also means you pay slightly more for maintenance (but the total may still come up to be worth it.)

Second, a 10-yr old Yamaha/Kawai would still have many years (say 20+) left in them if well taken care of. So don't worry too much about that either. The main thing is to (again) get a good relationship with a good tech.

Third, remember, it's the pianist, not the piano that makes the most difference! Chopin wrote many compositions on a not-very-good upright piano, for example.
_________________________
In progress

Mozart: Sonata in D Major, k576
Chopin: Polonaise in A-flat major, Op 53
Berg: Sonata in B minor, Op 1
Bach: Partita in C Minor, BWV 826

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#1238553 - 07/27/09 11:12 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]
Bihua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 175
Loc: Singapore
Actually, not only China pianos need to be worked on. It seems that the double strike problem is very common and also exist in other pianos (for example, another forumer once owned a Kawai K8 which also had double strike problems).

It seems like in Singapore, the dealers rarely prep the pianos before they send it over to your house. So, effectively, is whether your dealer do a good job, have the technicial abilities and willingness to put in the effort to help you prep the pianos and ensure everything is in place or not, and not so much on what brand you are getting.

But, of coz the more your pay for the piano, the greater their profit margin and hence the more willing they are to entertain your "im chim" request. Right?


Likewise:-
Is just like a chicken rice in coffeeshop is $3. You want, you buy. You complain too oily, then don't eat lah.

But in a highclass hotel restuarant. You order chicken rice. You may pay $30++ (service charge lah). You complain too oily, service very good, take it back and serve you another plate.

But the chicken that is served to you, might have just came from the same country, fed the same way what...

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