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Joined: Jun 2009
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ponfed Offline OP
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I just need to get this off my chest.

The translation in the Alfred Masterwork for the composers directives are all wrong.

I have seen it in a couple of other places and it almost seems like a translator tried to have the instructions make more sense.

Here is what I mean :

Conseillez-vous soigneusement
Alfred Translation : Plan carefully.
Actual meaning : Provide yourself with careful advice.

This one kind of works but it doesn't really translate the weirdness of the original direction.

Du bout de la pensée
Alfred Translation : Deep in thought.
Actual meaning : From the edge of thought.

Again it's no big deal but it tries to have the comments make more sense than they actually do.

Sur la langue
Alfred Translation : On the tip of the tongue.
Actual meaning : On the tongue.

The translation of "On the tip of the tongue" would be "Sur le bout de la langue". It's a recognized turn of phrase that is used in the same way as it is in English.

Ouvrez la tête :
Alfred Translation : Open your mind.
Actual meaning : Open the head.

It's not a euphemism or a turn of phrase. You would never use "Ouvrez la tête" to mean "Open your mind". Also if he wanted to refer to your head, he would've used "Ouvrez votre tête".

It's not a big deal. But I think it loses a lot of the playful, almost surreal feel that these pieces have on the page (that goes along with the absence of bar lines and all).

I know it's a weird first post but I needed to say it.
Anyway thanks for listening.


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Originally Posted by ponfed
I just need to get this off my chest.

The translation in the Alfred Masterwork for the composers directives are all wrong.

I have seen it in a couple of other places and it almost seems like a translator tried to have the instructions make more sense.

Here is what I mean :

Conseillez-vous soigneusement
Alfred Translation : Plan carefully.
Actual meaning : Provide yourself with careful advice.
Since conseiller is not a reflexive verb in French, this could also be translated : "Advise yourself carefully," which I think would be more in keeping with the tone of Satie's directions.
Originally Posted by ponfed


Du bout de la pensée
Alfred Translation : Deep in thought.
Actual meaning : From the edge of thought.
Since edge is translated as "bord" in French, I would translate this : "From the bottom of thought" or "From the end of thought" rather than "From the edge of thought."
Originally Posted by ponfed


[...]Ouvrez la tête :
Alfred Translation : Open your mind.
Actual meaning : Open the head.

[..]Also if he wanted to refer to your head, he would've used "Ouvrez votre tête".
This is the only one with which I will really disagree with you, and that may be based on regional differences between French-Canadian French and continental French. When referring to parts of the body, standard French always uses the definite article, not the possessive adjective, unless there is some chance of misconception involved. A (continental) French person would never say : "Fermez votre bouche!" or "Levez votre main.", but rather : "Fermez la bouche!" and "Levez la main." So, an acceptable translation would be : "Open your head." I agree, though, it's not "Open your mind."

Regards,


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Is it possible to see the original and translation in order to work within context?


Moderated by  Brendan, platuser 

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