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#1220264 - 06/20/09 08:43 PM kawai grand
spaculey Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 7
Loc: rock springs
hello
i have been on here before about a kawai grand. it has been since febuary and i have been to 7 stores since febuary and i keep going back to this kawai kg-5c. the piano was made in 1972, it has been regulated and tuned. it has a satin ebony finish. the price of this piano is 12900. i have been able to negotiate the price down to 12000. should i go for this piano or keep looking?

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#1220306 - 06/20/09 10:51 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: spaculey]
Marty in Minnesota Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1178
Loc: Minnesota
If that particular piano keeps drawing you back, it seems you have already made a decision.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

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#1220376 - 06/21/09 02:31 AM Re: kawai grand [Re: Marty in Minnesota]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
The Kawai KG5C is a respectable piano but not artist level as far as Kawai is concerned.Kawai really didn't have an artist quality level semi-concert in the early seventies unlike Yamaha, it's Japanese rival. In the early eighties Kawai released the GS series,a much higher end piano over the KG series.The KG series though a solid quality workhorse piano,was not the same structural and sound wise compared to the later GS series. And even later the GS series was discontinued for the present RX series.I've had my share of preowned KG5C,D and E over the years and feel that the piano improved soundwise from changing out the hammers in the newer D and E models. If you want to make a comparison between the Japanese rival manufacturers ,one could compare the Kawai KG series to Yamaha's G series which was always in production simultaneous with the C series with exception of the C1 and the C2.

In conclusion,I would assess the price of the KG5C(6'5")to be way overpriced.
In that era of production,Kawai high gloss was not 100% polyester so the finish tended to show it's age. I noticed the dealer remedied the finish by hand rubbing it satin which looks great. That's how you make a positive out of a negative. If you really crave this piano,get it much cheaper!If not possible get a GS50,60,CA60,NX60 or even a comparable size RX (RX5 or ?)Any restorative work other than the finish on the KG5C ?.The larger KGs: KG5(6'5"),KG6(7'2") and KG7(7'2") were pecuiliar as for targeting a buyer. They were semiconcert in size but not high level for the demanding pianist.Just my opinion but what do I know. wink


Edited by pianobroker (06/21/09 02:34 AM)
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#1220556 - 06/21/09 02:16 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: pianobroker]
Robert 45 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 1116
Loc: Auckland New Zealand
Hi Spaculey,
If you have already looked at other comparable pianos and you really like this particular instrument, follow the helpful advice above and negotiate. It is always best to choose the piano that appeals most to you. There are indeed some older Kawai grands out there that have have a great sound.

Best of luck!

Robert.

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#1220615 - 06/21/09 04:04 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: Robert 45]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
A quick web search will show many people offering newer KG5-c's for quite a bit less than 12K. From what you have said, the dealership has only done cosmetic things to the piano besides regulating the action.

The advantage with this one, of course, is that you have seen it and played it. But if you try to take a look at the wider market you may understand what other people are asking for similar (and even newer) pianos. This will help you in your negotiation.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

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#1220630 - 06/21/09 04:27 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: Piano*Dad]
MarkL Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 728
Loc: Chicago Suburban
I'd call Rick Jones Pianos . When I was there a month or so ago he had quite a few Kawais about that age, but I don't remember model numbers.
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#1220642 - 06/21/09 05:01 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: MarkL]
Annitenth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 440
Loc: Texas
I have a KG2 which I bought new in 1984. If I sold it privately, I wouldn't expect to get much more than half what you are considering.
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Bösendorfer 225
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#1220821 - 06/22/09 01:35 AM Re: kawai grand [Re: Annitenth]
spaculey Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 7
Loc: rock springs
thanks for all the imput! i was wondering if there was a reasonable price that i should be able to negotiate the price of this piano down to?

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#1220848 - 06/22/09 03:29 AM Re: kawai grand [Re: spaculey]
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Unfortunately the price you will be able to negociate down, will most likely be still too high a price as for it's true fair market value. I would think 6-7K max considering it's age.You realize value on asian pianos is strongly reflective on the age of the piano. There is or was no "golden era" as it applies to asian pianos. As someone had previously quoted,their realistic value of their KG2 would be half of what the store is asking for the KG5C. The bigger piano in this case does not add additional value to it's fair market over that of a KG2 or a KG3. So....Good luck in your negociations in that you're gonna need it. wink
_________________________
www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

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#1221283 - 06/22/09 09:46 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: pianobroker]
spaculey Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 7
Loc: rock springs
thank you for all your imput it has helped alot.

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#1224485 - 06/29/09 01:45 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: spaculey]
dailyjazztweets Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 55
Loc: Seattle, WA
I know what you mean about loving the KG-5C 6'8". I selected mine from a number of shipments over time 1976-1977, and kept it maintained since. I am inspired by the tone and touch (action of keys, pedals); the instrument resonates with me.
_________________________
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eLearning Mashups
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#1224505 - 06/29/09 02:06 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: spaculey]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3300
If this piano is in original condition, please don't buy it for 12k. It should be priced for half of that. We are in a recession, use that to your advantage because it is a buyer's market. Good luck!
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M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
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#1236860 - 07/24/09 09:28 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: beethoven986]
RendezvousSam Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 3
Loc: United Kingdom
My 14 year old son had recently passed his grade 7 at piano. He's been pestering me to up-grade our Smaick SG140C baby grand for months. As a dotty father, I eventually took him to a showroom. He tried a Yamaha C2, C3, C5 and SB6, I was prepared to get a new Yamaha C3 for him, but then he tried a used Kawai KG-5C (1972 model). Instantly he was captivated by the feel and mellow of the Kawai. After delivery, he can't stop playing it.......(the PS 3 gathering dust)and I'd saved over $20,000!!!

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#1236862 - 07/24/09 09:30 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: RendezvousSam]
RendezvousSam Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 3
Loc: United Kingdom
P.S. I paid £6,999 ( US$ 10,498).

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#1237039 - 07/25/09 10:42 AM Re: kawai grand [Re: RendezvousSam]
M.O.P. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 981
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Congratulations, Rendezvous, you son will enjoy this piano!
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#1237050 - 07/25/09 11:25 AM Re: kawai grand [Re: M.O.P.]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4398
Loc: San Jose, CA
Spaculey, we always suggest that any used piano be inspected by a qualified tech in your employ and not affiliated with the seller. Yes, even in a store. The technical evaluation will include an estimate of the tech's opinion of the current market value, as well as what kind of repairs you can expect (and their cost), and how long it can be expected to stay in service as a musical instrument. It costs, probably, between $100 and $200 and can be very valuable to you in having a realistic view of what you're buying, and as a tool in your negotiations.

Six-and-a-half is a sweet length for a piano for the home, and I can understand why you might like it. They are asking a lot of money for an instrument that is 27 years old, considering that the design life is around 30 to 50 years... and that depends very heavily on what maintenance it's had, and the environment in which it's been kept.

You are not that far from the price of a new RX2 (and there are others to consider), with a warranty and a far longer service life ahead of it, and a much higher residual value if you decide to sell it, or trade up, later on. Lots of people do this, and move up the piano food chain a step at a time.

If the seller does not want to let your technician look it over, it is the most serious kind of danger sign, short of actually having the instrument be on fire.

You seem like a very careful shopper, and as long as you have your eyes open and know all the facts, I'm sure you will do fine. Best of luck with it, and I hope you write back and let us know how it works out.
_________________________
Clef


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#1238001 - 07/27/09 06:56 AM Re: kawai grand [Re: RendezvousSam]
eightyeight_keys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/08
Posts: 383
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Good on your son! The Kawai is a much much better piano than the Yamaha!!! I understand how he feels about it. 100% The Kawai action is far superior to the crappy Yamaha action. The tone of the Kawai is also nicer. Good on you!! I have bought a Kawai RX6 grand and it is awesome!
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#1238002 - 07/27/09 06:58 AM Re: kawai grand [Re: dailyjazztweets]
eightyeight_keys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/08
Posts: 383
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The Kawai KG-5C 6'8". is a good buy. You will NOT be dissapointed. 6'8" is a great size for a grand. Congratulations!
_________________________
Kawai RX6G Grand
Bernstien/Hailun Europa BH - 1EP Upright
Roland HP-335 Digital Piano
Yamaha W7 Synthesizer
Roland E09W Interactive Arranger

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#1238003 - 07/27/09 07:07 AM Re: kawai grand [Re: eightyeight_keys]
Konzert Patrick Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 790
Loc: The Netherlands
piano_mike,

I am very happy that after trading in 3 pianos (or was it 4) including having 3 different Kawai pianos with a variety of problems, and even the one you have now was not problem free you when it arrived, you are saying that Yamaha pianos as inferiour to Kawai??
Personal taste is different for everybody but Kawai is not a BETTER piano then Yamaha, nor is the Yamaha action 'crappy' please be a profesional on this forum and don't talk BS
Yamaha was already making fantastic actions when Kawai still had their sluggish action, they are known for their consistency and have become very populair because of that.



_________________________
Schimmel Konzert 189 Tradition

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#1238539 - 07/27/09 10:37 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: Konzert Patrick]
RendezvousSam Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 3
Loc: United Kingdom
The reason my son preferred the Kawai rather then a Yamaha was the feel of the peddles and keys more suited to him (Yamaha not 'crappy'). The Yamahas sounded a lot more brighter, whereas the Kawai has a more mellow sound, more suited to the European taste!

______________
A key too far!

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#1239264 - 07/28/09 10:13 PM Re: kawai grand [Re: eightyeight_keys]
SeilerFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 746
Originally Posted By: piano_mike
Good on your son! The Kawai is a much much better piano than the Yamaha!!! I understand how he feels about it. 100% The Kawai action is far superior to the crappy Yamaha action. The tone of the Kawai is also nicer. Good on you!! I have bought a Kawai RX6 grand and it is awesome!


Ok, you've told your story numerous times on here. We know that you have an RX6 and that for you it seemingly is the best in the world. Good for you. In my view, the Shigeru Kawai is a much, much better piano than your RX6. Does this make the RX6 "crappy"? Probably not. I highly recommend playing a new C3 or bigger for fun. Its action and sound are everything but crappy. I wouldn't be surprised if a C7 owner shows up here, claiming that his or her C7 outplays those "crappy" RX6 pianos? I pretty much think that in terms of quality control and reputation, Kawai and Yamaha are pretty much on a par with each other. I don't understand why you have to make such an improper comment about a maker that clearly does not produce "crap." In another thread you complain about a few buzzing bass notes on your grand. So, turns out it is not perfect. Neither are Yamahas, but they're pretty good pianos.

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