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#1239332 - 07/28/09 11:40 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Nikalette]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Good solos are pulled off when you start hearing passages that relate to the chord progression and you become confident in your path to pull them off.

1. Get the book Country Riffs for Piano by George Wurbach. The book has all the cool licks that can apply to rock, blues and country. A CD is included to hear all the exercises played the way they are written and the feel. Transpose them to the "rock keys", E-A-D-G-B. It can be more of a challenge to play a great solo over a simple triad progression, I-IV-V than to blow on II-V-I like Autumn Leaves.

2. Learn the solo on the Beatles Get Back tune that the "fifth Beatle Billy Preston played on electric piano. A simple, but very fine solo on 2 chords, A and D. Transpose the solo to the guitar keys.

3. Listen to all the tunes that keyboardist Reese Wynans plays on with Stevie Ray Vaughn. Reese is on youtube, so download the videos, open them in Quicktime Pro, slow them down and learn them note for note.

If you can find a teacher to work with, that's fine too, but really you have to work it out yourself by listening to the tunes and trying to copy what the keyboard players are doing, one note, one bar at a time until you can duplicate it 24-7, awake or asleep.

4. Play pentatonic octaves of I-IV-V up and down the scale in quarter notes, eighth notes and eighth note triplets until it;s smooth with a metronome.

Do these suggestions and you will see successful results in a month with daily practice. The key to all this is listening and then duplicating. Take it a day at a time, have patience and results will come

katt


What exactly do you mean in no. 4?


Nick, #4 is an exercise playing pentatonic scales in octaves, up and down the keyboard to build solo techniques, mainly for blues, country and rock. An example would be;

Key of C, the major pentatonic scale notes are, C-1 D-2 E-3 G-5 A-6. Playing each scale note, C-C D-D etc. in octaves with hands separately and then together, slowly playing the scale in octaves at faster speed to build facility and technique. Does that explain it a little better?

katt

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#1239338 - 07/28/09 11:53 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitekatt2008z]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Katt, JJO & Dave

I am glad you guys agree with me on this point.

I never liked the phrase "finding your own voice".. When McCoy Tyner was experimenting with pentatonic scale, I dont think he was thinking "I am doing this to develop my style". I think he just liked the sound and wanted to figure how to work them into his solos.

I would rather used the phrase "trust in your own self/voice" Music about sound, and your desire to assimilate it. If it's Bill Evan's sound you want, by all means go for it. and
don't worry about being an imitator... trust in whatever it is music that you naturally desire, trust your instinct, even if it may seem too obscure, or too conventional.

When I transcribe and imitate someone's solo I do it because I love the music so much that I feel like I've gotta have it.. I've got to learn it and figure out what's going on. In a way I am like a kid in a candy store.. i just run into whatever I like at full speed without thought smile

This is one of my favorite music quote by Mozart

"People make a mistake who think my art has come easily to me. Nobody has devoted so much time and thought to composition as I. There is not a famous master whose music I have not studied over and over."

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#1239355 - 07/29/09 12:24 AM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Nikalette]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
I've searched high and low for the George Wurzbach book (and that's Wurzbach with an double dots accent um....) and it's not only out of print but not available in the usual places. You could try the UK sites, I've found some more obscure things for sale there. Anyway, I found his website, and being completely without inhibitions or shame, emailed him and asked him where the book might be found. I'll let you know!


Nik, the Wurzbach book is one of the best method "lick" books with a CD to hear the 29 exercises I have ever bought. I play one of the riffs almost daily and try to memorize them in all 12 keys. They are a little tricky to get them happening at first. I've had it for awhile and it was produced by CherryLane, a large music book distributer. The book is rare and in demand and soon we will see used copies being offered on Amazon collectors with prices and bids starting at $100-500, my estimate. I have the Sher Great Moments in Jazz, transcriptions of famous jazz musicians solo fragments with 2 included cassettes of the examples. I've seen bids of $200-500, especially Amazon UK. It's out of print and Chuck Sher the publisher told me personally at the NAMM show that it was a collectors item and in demand. I doubt the Wurzbach book will fetch prices or bids that high, but time will tell. Maybe the publisher will do a second printing if the demand is there.

katt

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#1239361 - 07/29/09 12:41 AM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Pianos_N_Cheezecake Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 150
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Etcetera, you do realize that there isn't a right or wrong answer, no matter how many people agree with you.

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#1239372 - 07/29/09 01:29 AM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: etcetra]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
etcetra, katt again here, must be something flowing in the air tonight with these themes. I just listened to Oscar's version of C-Jam Blues in C, slowed some of the phrases down to half speed because his solo was smokin' man, and I wanted to cop some ideas. I also got the 9 page transcription, forget how I found it, but I extracted a few of his licks, wrote out the fingerings note by note and played them over and over. It was awkward at first, but playing these licks opened up a new path of playing and thinking in another direction of improvisation. After I learn a lick and can play it, I edit it for my own concepts. I may take 4-8 notes of something I either read or transcribed and it stimulates my own creativity. So far I just don't have the patience to transcribe a whole solo, but I'm getting there.

And yes, even still, I still sound like katt at the keyboard, not katt trying to play like OP, which would be an almost eternal task to even attempt, more less master for me to take on in 20 lifetimes, but katt imitating what I heard another master play to find another path for improvisation.

I have talked to a few pianists that actually got Bill Evans to give them a lesson or 2 when he was in NYC way back in the good ole days of the clubs. I asked them how it went and these players were already very advanced, but they wanted to check Bill out. I asked them what they got from Bill, and they told me that he showed them a few voicings, a trick or 2 and told them basically to go home and figure it out for themselves, which they in fact did, although they didn't see it that way at the time. He convinced his "students" that it's all there for the listening and figuring it out doing the work. Did these pianists turn into Bill Evans "clones", not in any way at all. Each cat has his own sound, touch, feel. They can play the same voicing Bill taught them, the same notes, touch, but it still sounds different, not sure why, but Bill had a touch and feel at the piano that was unique, difficult to copy it exactly. I have Bill Evans transcription books and I do takedowns of his solos, fragments mainly, but when I try to copy it, the notes are right, but the touch, sound is not the same

Some thoughts

katt


Edited by nitekatt2008z (07/29/09 01:32 AM)

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#1239376 - 07/29/09 01:47 AM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Pianos_N_Cheezecake]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Piano N Cheezcake,

I didn't really intend this to be who is right or wrong, I am sorry if you got that impression. But after reading some rude comments I was quite offended by the way some people treated my argument. So I was relived to hear some people who can see the validity of my point.

I think I've given enough reasons to believe why the whole "finding your own style/voice" thing seems like a naive assertion.. after all how do you actually go about finding your own voice? if imitating other goes against that follow your voice dogma, then you can't transcribe solos, you can't play classical pieces, you can't work on anything!!

anyways, I do welcome any legitamte counter-arguments on this issue, and I would love to hear faultiness in my reasoning, as long as it doesn't become personal attack against me. But I still do firmly believe that anybody who's any good have spent years, if not close to 10 years of imitating other masters.

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#1239390 - 07/29/09 02:08 AM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: etcetra]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Katt,

what you told me about Bill sounded a lot like one of the teacher I had. I had a chance to take couple of lesson from Llew Matthews. I asked him questions and he showed me tons of stuff. Back then a lot of stuff were way beyond me, but last year, I decided to listen to the listen and actually figured out the stuff he was playing on the keyboard. That process really helped me to discover new things on my own. I ended up coming up with new things based on what I stole from others. It wasn't an conscious effort, it just happened naturally

If I was to study with a great player I'll probably do the same. I'll transcribe couple of their solos and ask questions and have them show me stuff that I am interested in.. and go home and work them out on my own. For me I can't really think of any other way to learn jazz than this way.

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#1239585 - 07/29/09 12:03 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: etcetra]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Originally Posted By: etcetra
Katt,

what you told me about Bill sounded a lot like one of the teacher I had. I had a chance to take couple of lesson from Llew Matthews. I asked him questions and he showed me tons of stuff. Back then a lot of stuff were way beyond me, but last year, I decided to listen to the listen and actually figured out the stuff he was playing on the keyboard. That process really helped me to discover new things on my own. I ended up coming up with new things based on what I stole from others. It wasn't an conscious effort, it just happened naturally

If I was to study with a great player I'll probably do the same. I'll transcribe couple of their solos and ask questions and have them show me stuff that I am interested in.. and go home and work them out on my own. For me I can't really think of any other way to learn jazz than this way.


That's entirely correct etcetra, there isn't a better way to learn to play jazz and the highest levels possible can only be held by those willing to "imitate" on what they've studied and applied to their own path. If anyone can figure out a faster, more effective way to learn, please pass it on.

There was a great player/teacher at Berklee, Ray Santisi that I studied with as many other students have done for 30+ years. Ray would write a 2-4 bop lick and recommended fingering and sent me on my way. Next lesson, I was going to really show him my stuff and sat down at one of the 2 excellent ebony grands in his studio/office and played the lick almost perfect. And Ray commented that was the feel. But then he said, "ok, let's hear it in the remaining 11 keys." Uh-oh, I was supposed to play it in all 12 keys, duh? I felt like a dufus!! From then on Ray advised me that if he gives me an exercise, learn it in all keys. He gives me a 2-4 bar bop lick, not to fake it and copy, but to take those few words and make my own sentence with it. At that time, unless he showed me something that I had heard being played by advanced students, I then was able hear things on records and could understand what was going on.

If we don't imitate what we learn from our teachers, then what is the point with paying good money for the lessons? Of course jazz lessons are different than strictly classical lessons. I take from all I have learned from other players and filter and edit what I put into my own sound and approach to playing.

Years ago, we used to attend a piano group where players would get to play a classical piece or jazz tune. They called me up, and I kept saying, "ok, I pass, someone else more experienced should do something." But they wouldn't take no for an answer, so finally I got the nerve to play in front of 40-50 listeners. I was nervous, but I started my reharmonized arrangement of Moonlight In Vermont. I blocked out the audience and just got into the thing, throwing in my beginning Art Tatum tricks I picked up, and got through it. They clapped, haha, anyway... It was over, next!! As the group was closing up, this fellow who was a famous actor, Louie Nye, commented that he enjoyed my "performance" and said he heard a Tatum/Oscar influence in my playing. That was quite a compliment that someone heard an influence that I had put into the thing. And unless I had heard and "imitated" what that influence was, I never could have figured it out myself. Again, this is my thought and opinion about how to study jazz that has worked for me, you and many other fine players. My late great piano teacher/mentor that I was with about 2 years when I got into LA after Berklee could put life and magic in a ballad, especially with voicings and applying inner voices. I asked him how he learned that, and he pointed to his large old reel tape recorder, Bill Evans books, George Shering Books and many records in his collection. I think that says it all right there.

My $2
katt


Edited by nitekatt2008z (07/29/09 12:09 PM)

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#1239720 - 07/29/09 02:51 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitekatt2008z]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Yea, I don't ever see myself not doing transcriptions.. I transcribed a lot of Bill Evans solos when i started, but there are things that I notice right now that I never realized back then.. and I would transcribe him for completely different reasons that I did before. chances are I will do the same when I am older and better too. I don't see myself from ever stopping, there is no end to this journey.

Also there are so many things that you would never come up on your own unless you transcribe. I discover all the over-the-barline stuff through transcriptions and I would have never have thought of that on my own.. I was not aware that those things existed until I transcribed and figured it out on my own. I wrote somewhere that I am transcribing Keith Jarrett's solo on "Heyoke" right now, and transcribing that solo made me realize just how deep these rhythmical things can get. And transcribing David Kikoski's solo helped me understand how to play polyrhytm and over the barline stuff over odd meter, which is really really difficult. I just don't see how anyone can come up with these things on their own. Maybe Keith Jarrett can, but I know I don't have that kind of talent.

The only thing that changed is that I became more diverse about who or what I steal from. I transcribe mostly newer players like David Kikoski or Kenny Kirkland right now.. sometimes even big band chart or film scores, it could be anything as long as it's something I love listening to.

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#1239733 - 07/29/09 03:12 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1080
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Good solos are pulled off when you start hearing passages that relate to the chord progression and you become confident in your path to pull them off.

1. Get the book Country Riffs for Piano by George Wurbach. The book has all the cool licks that can apply to rock, blues and country. A CD is included to hear all the exercises played the way they are written and the feel. Transpose them to the "rock keys", E-A-D-G-B. It can be more of a challenge to play a great solo over a simple triad progression, I-IV-V than to blow on II-V-I like Autumn Leaves.

2. Learn the solo on the Beatles Get Back tune that the "fifth Beatle Billy Preston played on electric piano. A simple, but very fine solo on 2 chords, A and D. Transpose the solo to the guitar keys.

3. Listen to all the tunes that keyboardist Reese Wynans plays on with Stevie Ray Vaughn. Reese is on youtube, so download the videos, open them in Quicktime Pro, slow them down and learn them note for note.

If you can find a teacher to work with, that's fine too, but really you have to work it out yourself by listening to the tunes and trying to copy what the keyboard players are doing, one note, one bar at a time until you can duplicate it 24-7, awake or asleep.

4. Play pentatonic octaves of I-IV-V up and down the scale in quarter notes, eighth notes and eighth note triplets until it;s smooth with a metronome.

Do these suggestions and you will see successful results in a month with daily practice. The key to all this is listening and then duplicating. Take it a day at a time, have patience and results will come

katt


What exactly do you mean in no. 4?


Nick, #4 is an exercise playing pentatonic scales in octaves, up and down the keyboard to build solo techniques, mainly for blues, country and rock. An example would be;

Key of C, the major pentatonic scale notes are, C-1 D-2 E-3 G-5 A-6. Playing each scale note, C-C D-D etc. in octaves with hands separately and then together, slowly playing the scale in octaves at faster speed to build facility and technique. Does that explain it a little better?

katt


Yes, that helps. Why does playing in octaves help? (I'm assuming you mean playing the thumb and pinkie an octave apart, something I try to stay away from because sustained stretches cause thumb joint pain for me). I usually practice going up 2 octaves and down, to get the fingerings and scale into my muscle memory.

Also, I have learned the major pentatonic and blues scales? When I practice the blues scale in the right hand around the circle of fifths, I play a I-IV-V progression in my left hand, usually a typical bass pattern of some kind, trying to build more hand independence.

But I can't figure out what sounds good in the left hand under a pentatonic scale.

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#1239735 - 07/29/09 03:14 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1080
Loc: California
Katt, What do you think about studying Oscar Peterson's book "Jazz Etudes" if you've seen it?

Also I've searched high and low for the Wurzbach book, it's available in a library in San Diego, and at some in Canada.
So far that's all I can find.

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#1240684 - 07/30/09 11:36 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Nikalette]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
Katt, What do you think about studying Oscar Peterson's book "Jazz Etudes" if you've seen it?

Also I've searched high and low for the Wurzbach book, it's available in a library in San Diego, and at some in Canada.
So far that's all I can find.


Nik, I have a real old copy of some Oscar P transcription that came out about 1993. It is hammered with coffee stains, torn cover, yellowed pages, but I have it on a table next to my keyboard for reference. I also have some of the MP's with the tunes to read along and pick up some voicings, runs, etc. The book has Georgia, Hymn To Freedom, Nearness of You, Night Train and some other blues and standards the way Oscar played them. I have learned a lot of tips playing through the book, however unless you are a good sight reader, a student will have to work out some of the tunes bar by bar, but it's worth it.

Don't know much about the etudes books, but if you punch in OP at Amazon, many of his jazz books and several of his biographies are listed.

Regarding playing octaves in pentatonic scales, this builds technique, strength and a "power sound" to solo in blues, rock, jazz, etc. You can hammer them out in hard staccato patterns to build intensity in a solo. Try that and see what you some up with.

katt

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#1241518 - 08/01/09 12:45 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1080
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Good solos are pulled off when you start hearing passages that relate to the chord progression and you become confident in your path to pull them off.

1. Get the book Country Riffs for Piano by George Wurbach. The book has all the cool licks that can apply to rock, blues and country. A CD is included to hear all the exercises played the way they are written and the feel. Transpose them to the "rock keys", E-A-D-G-B. It can be more of a challenge to play a great solo over a simple triad progression, I-IV-V than to blow on II-V-I like Autumn Leaves.

2. Learn the solo on the Beatles Get Back tune that the "fifth Beatle Billy Preston played on electric piano. A simple, but very fine solo on 2 chords, A and D. Transpose the solo to the guitar keys.

3. Listen to all the tunes that keyboardist Reese Wynans plays on with Stevie Ray Vaughn. Reese is on youtube, so download the videos, open them in Quicktime Pro, slow them down and learn them note for note.

If you can find a teacher to work with, that's fine too, but really you have to work it out yourself by listening to the tunes and trying to copy what the keyboard players are doing, one note, one bar at a time until you can duplicate it 24-7, awake or asleep.

4. Play pentatonic octaves of I-IV-V up and down the scale in quarter notes, eighth notes and eighth note triplets until it;s smooth with a metronome.

Do these suggestions and you will see successful results in a month with daily practice. The key to all this is listening and then duplicating. Take it a day at a time, have patience and results will come

katt



Here's a nice slow lesson on Billy Preston's solo from "Get Back". Are the guitar keys C, G, E, A, D?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DdIxvS1izw

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#1241522 - 08/01/09 12:51 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1080
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Good solos are pulled off when you start hearing passages that relate to the chord progression and you become confident in your path to pull them off.

1. Get the book Country Riffs for Piano by George Wurbach. The book has all the cool licks that can apply to rock, blues and country. A CD is included to hear all the exercises played the way they are written and the feel. Transpose them to the "rock keys", E-A-D-G-B. It can be more of a challenge to play a great solo over a simple triad progression, I-IV-V than to blow on II-V-I like Autumn Leaves.

2. Learn the solo on the Beatles Get Back tune that the "fifth Beatle Billy Preston played on electric piano. A simple, but very fine solo on 2 chords, A and D. Transpose the solo to the guitar keys.

3. Listen to all the tunes that keyboardist Reese Wynans plays on with Stevie Ray Vaughn. Reese is on youtube, so download the videos, open them in Quicktime Pro, slow them down and learn them note for note.

If you can find a teacher to work with, that's fine too, but really you have to work it out yourself by listening to the tunes and trying to copy what the keyboard players are doing, one note, one bar at a time until you can duplicate it 24-7, awake or asleep.

4. Play pentatonic octaves of I-IV-V up and down the scale in quarter notes, eighth notes and eighth note triplets until it;s smooth with a metronome.

Do these suggestions and you will see successful results in a month with daily practice. The key to all this is listening and then duplicating. Take it a day at a time, have patience and results will come

katt


So here is a Reese Wynans solo. What kind of organ is he playing? I'm guessing that you could transcribe this for a regular DP...I'm just trying to figure out which voice to use from my keybard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXqdgU3JowA&feature=related

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#1241526 - 08/01/09 12:57 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1080
Loc: California

Willie Myette has a weekly radio show and the show from this week has some tips on improv that are really helpful


Edited by Nikalette (08/01/09 04:44 PM)

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#1242048 - 08/02/09 01:17 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Nikalette]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Good solos are pulled off when you start hearing passages that relate to the chord progression and you become confident in your path to pull them off.

1. Get the book Country Riffs for Piano by George Wurbach. The book has all the cool licks that can apply to rock, blues and country. A CD is included to hear all the exercises played the way they are written and the feel. Transpose them to the "rock keys", E-A-D-G-B. It can be more of a challenge to play a great solo over a simple triad progression, I-IV-V than to blow on II-V-I like Autumn Leaves.

2. Learn the solo on the Beatles Get Back tune that the "fifth Beatle Billy Preston played on electric piano. A simple, but very fine solo on 2 chords, A and D. Transpose the solo to the guitar keys.

3. Listen to all the tunes that keyboardist Reese Wynans plays on with Stevie Ray Vaughn. Reese is on youtube, so download the videos, open them in Quicktime Pro, slow them down and learn them note for note.

If you can find a teacher to work with, that's fine too, but really you have to work it out yourself by listening to the tunes and trying to copy what the keyboard players are doing, one note, one bar at a time until you can duplicate it 24-7, awake or asleep.

4. Play pentatonic octaves of I-IV-V up and down the scale in quarter notes, eighth notes and eighth note triplets until it;s smooth with a metronome.

Do these suggestions and you will see successful results in a month with daily practice. The key to all this is listening and then duplicating. Take it a day at a time, have patience and results will come

katt



Here's a nice slow lesson on Billy Preston's solo from "Get Back". Are the guitar keys C, G, E, A, D?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DdIxvS1izw


Yes, guitar keys including B. Pianojohns' youtube piano lesons are some of the best free ones out there. He also has courses on his site that you can sign up for and very reasonable. He always does a good job of explaining as well as playing a solo or technique.

katt

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#1242052 - 08/02/09 01:22 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Nikalette]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Good solos are pulled off when you start hearing passages that relate to the chord progression and you become confident in your path to pull them off.

1. Get the book Country Riffs for Piano by George Wurbach. The book has all the cool licks that can apply to rock, blues and country. A CD is included to hear all the exercises played the way they are written and the feel. Transpose them to the "rock keys", E-A-D-G-B. It can be more of a challenge to play a great solo over a simple triad progression, I-IV-V than to blow on II-V-I like Autumn Leaves.

2. Learn the solo on the Beatles Get Back tune that the "fifth Beatle Billy Preston played on electric piano. A simple, but very fine solo on 2 chords, A and D. Transpose the solo to the guitar keys.

3. Listen to all the tunes that keyboardist Reese Wynans plays on with Stevie Ray Vaughn. Reese is on youtube, so download the videos, open them in Quicktime Pro, slow them down and learn them note for note.

If you can find a teacher to work with, that's fine too, but really you have to work it out yourself by listening to the tunes and trying to copy what the keyboard players are doing, one note, one bar at a time until you can duplicate it 24-7, awake or asleep.

4. Play pentatonic octaves of I-IV-V up and down the scale in quarter notes, eighth notes and eighth note triplets until it;s smooth with a metronome.

Do these suggestions and you will see successful results in a month with daily practice. The key to all this is listening and then duplicating. Take it a day at a time, have patience and results will come

katt


So here is a Reese Wynans solo. What kind of organ is he playing? I'm guessing that you could transcribe this for a regular DP...I'm just trying to figure out which voice to use from my keybard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXqdgU3JowA&feature=related


Yep Nik, that's a B-3. Just select one of your organ sounds with the leslie effect and start jamming away. You can download a youtube video, open it in Quicktime Pro and there is a speed and pitch control for transcribing. Good luck

katt

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#1242075 - 08/02/09 01:52 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1080
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Good solos are pulled off when you start hearing passages that relate to the chord progression and you become confident in your path to pull them off.

1. Get the book Country Riffs for Piano by George Wurbach. The book has all the cool licks that can apply to rock, blues and country. A CD is included to hear all the exercises played the way they are written and the feel. Transpose them to the "rock keys", E-A-D-G-B. It can be more of a challenge to play a great solo over a simple triad progression, I-IV-V than to blow on II-V-I like Autumn Leaves.

2. Learn the solo on the Beatles Get Back tune that the "fifth Beatle Billy Preston played on electric piano. A simple, but very fine solo on 2 chords, A and D. Transpose the solo to the guitar keys.

3. Listen to all the tunes that keyboardist Reese Wynans plays on with Stevie Ray Vaughn. Reese is on youtube, so download the videos, open them in Quicktime Pro, slow them down and learn them note for note.

If you can find a teacher to work with, that's fine too, but really you have to work it out yourself by listening to the tunes and trying to copy what the keyboard players are doing, one note, one bar at a time until you can duplicate it 24-7, awake or asleep.

4. Play pentatonic octaves of I-IV-V up and down the scale in quarter notes, eighth notes and eighth note triplets until it;s smooth with a metronome.

Do these suggestions and you will see successful results in a month with daily practice. The key to all this is listening and then duplicating. Take it a day at a time, have patience and results will come

katt


Katt do you have a Mac or PC? I've been reading the reviews of QuicktimePro and a lot of people hate it. Does anyone else have a program for slowing down videos on a PC?

Top
#1242090 - 08/02/09 02:12 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Nikalette]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Good solos are pulled off when you start hearing passages that relate to the chord progression and you become confident in your path to pull them off.

1. Get the book Country Riffs for Piano by George Wurbach. The book has all the cool licks that can apply to rock, blues and country. A CD is included to hear all the exercises played the way they are written and the feel. Transpose them to the "rock keys", E-A-D-G-B. It can be more of a challenge to play a great solo over a simple triad progression, I-IV-V than to blow on II-V-I like Autumn Leaves.

2. Learn the solo on the Beatles Get Back tune that the "fifth Beatle Billy Preston played on electric piano. A simple, but very fine solo on 2 chords, A and D. Transpose the solo to the guitar keys.

3. Listen to all the tunes that keyboardist Reese Wynans plays on with Stevie Ray Vaughn. Reese is on youtube, so download the videos, open them in Quicktime Pro, slow them down and learn them note for note.

If you can find a teacher to work with, that's fine too, but really you have to work it out yourself by listening to the tunes and trying to copy what the keyboard players are doing, one note, one bar at a time until you can duplicate it 24-7, awake or asleep.

4. Play pentatonic octaves of I-IV-V up and down the scale in quarter notes, eighth notes and eighth note triplets until it;s smooth with a metronome.

Do these suggestions and you will see successful results in a month with daily practice. The key to all this is listening and then duplicating. Take it a day at a time, have patience and results will come

katt


Katt do you have a Mac or PC? I've been reading the reviews of QuicktimePro and a lot of people hate it. Does anyone else have a program for slowing down videos on a PC?


Nik, I only use a MacBook and Quicktime Pro works fine on my system. It's not the best but it meets my needs. I also transcribe using Audacity. The speed and pitch control on Audacity has more functions and precise. Audacity runs on PC, but you can check out their site here: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

It's free and much more sophisticated than QT Pro. I use it more than QT Pro for takedowns. But QT Pro can open youtube videos and save them in different formats and compression.

katt


Edited by nitekatt2008z (08/02/09 02:13 PM)

Top
#1242113 - 08/02/09 03:13 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: nitekatt2008z]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1080
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Good solos are pulled off when you start hearing passages that relate to the chord progression and you become confident in your path to pull them off.

1. Get the book Country Riffs for Piano by George Wurbach. The book has all the cool licks that can apply to rock, blues and country. A CD is included to hear all the exercises played the way they are written and the feel. Transpose them to the "rock keys", E-A-D-G-B. It can be more of a challenge to play a great solo over a simple triad progression, I-IV-V than to blow on II-V-I like Autumn Leaves.

2. Learn the solo on the Beatles Get Back tune that the "fifth Beatle Billy Preston played on electric piano. A simple, but very fine solo on 2 chords, A and D. Transpose the solo to the guitar keys.

3. Listen to all the tunes that keyboardist Reese Wynans plays on with Stevie Ray Vaughn. Reese is on youtube, so download the videos, open them in Quicktime Pro, slow them down and learn them note for note.

If you can find a teacher to work with, that's fine too, but really you have to work it out yourself by listening to the tunes and trying to copy what the keyboard players are doing, one note, one bar at a time until you can duplicate it 24-7, awake or asleep.

4. Play pentatonic octaves of I-IV-V up and down the scale in quarter notes, eighth notes and eighth note triplets until it;s smooth with a metronome.

Do these suggestions and you will see successful results in a month with daily practice. The key to all this is listening and then duplicating. Take it a day at a time, have patience and results will come

katt


Katt do you have a Mac or PC? I've been reading the reviews of QuicktimePro and a lot of people hate it. Does anyone else have a program for slowing down videos on a PC?


Nik, I only use a MacBook and Quicktime Pro works fine on my system. It's not the best but it meets my needs. I also transcribe using Audacity. The speed and pitch control on Audacity has more functions and precise. Audacity runs on PC, but you can check out their site here: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

It's free and much more sophisticated than QT Pro. I use it more than QT Pro for takedowns. But QT Pro can open youtube videos and save them in different formats and compression.

katt


Thanks, I'll check out Audacity.

I found something called Enounce My Speed which works with flashplayer on U-tube to slow down or speed up.It loads up a little speed control bar. I didn't check the buy, but it's not too sophisticated. It only slows to 1/3 speed, but there was a free trial for a week.

Anyway the good news. I was able to transcribe the Billy Preston solo from Get Back. I think I got it all right althou' I need to check the last measure. I didn't transcribe the rhythm, that I'll do by ear.

Sad that Billy died at 59. I saw him in SF many years back. He was really late for the show (like 45 minutes) and then after a blazing 20 minute set, just got up and walked off the stage. We were pretty disappointed.

BTW, has anybody seen the country riffs for keyboard by Andrew Gordon, since the Wurzbach edition is out of print?


Edited by Nikalette (08/02/09 03:16 PM)

Top
#1242156 - 08/02/09 05:12 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Nikalette]
nitekatt2008z Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 552
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
Originally Posted By: nitekatt2008z
Good solos are pulled off when you start hearing passages that relate to the chord progression and you become confident in your path to pull them off.

1. Get the book Country Riffs for Piano by George Wurbach. The book has all the cool licks that can apply to rock, blues and country. A CD is included to hear all the exercises played the way they are written and the feel. Transpose them to the "rock keys", E-A-D-G-B. It can be more of a challenge to play a great solo over a simple triad progression, I-IV-V than to blow on II-V-I like Autumn Leaves.

2. Learn the solo on the Beatles Get Back tune that the "fifth Beatle Billy Preston played on electric piano. A simple, but very fine solo on 2 chords, A and D. Transpose the solo to the guitar keys.

3. Listen to all the tunes that keyboardist Reese Wynans plays on with Stevie Ray Vaughn. Reese is on youtube, so download the videos, open them in Quicktime Pro, slow them down and learn them note for note.

If you can find a teacher to work with, that's fine too, but really you have to work it out yourself by listening to the tunes and trying to copy what the keyboard players are doing, one note, one bar at a time until you can duplicate it 24-7, awake or asleep.

4. Play pentatonic octaves of I-IV-V up and down the scale in quarter notes, eighth notes and eighth note triplets until it;s smooth with a metronome.

Do these suggestions and you will see successful results in a month with daily practice. The key to all this is listening and then duplicating. Take it a day at a time, have patience and results will come

katt


Katt do you have a Mac or PC? I've been reading the reviews of QuicktimePro and a lot of people hate it. Does anyone else have a program for slowing down videos on a PC?


Nik, I only use a MacBook and Quicktime Pro works fine on my system. It's not the best but it meets my needs. I also transcribe using Audacity. The speed and pitch control on Audacity has more functions and precise. Audacity runs on PC, but you can check out their site here: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

It's free and much more sophisticated than QT Pro. I use it more than QT Pro for takedowns. But QT Pro can open youtube videos and save them in different formats and compression.

katt


Thanks, I'll check out Audacity.

I found something called Enounce My Speed which works with flashplayer on U-tube to slow down or speed up.It loads up a little speed control bar. I didn't check the buy, but it's not too sophisticated. It only slows to 1/3 speed, but there was a free trial for a week.

Anyway the good news. I was able to transcribe the Billy Preston solo from Get Back. I think I got it all right althou' I need to check the last measure. I didn't transcribe the rhythm, that I'll do by ear.

Sad that Billy died at 59. I saw him in SF many years back. He was really late for the show (like 45 minutes) and then after a blazing 20 minute set, just got up and walked off the stage. We were pretty disappointed.

BTW, has anybody seen the country riffs for keyboard by Andrew Gordon, since the Wurzbach edition is out of print?


Nik, I have personally talked to Andrew Gordon and almost forgot that he has many piano method books, some with CD's that include blues, rock, jazz, funk, country, etc. His books are available online and retail music stores. The books that I have seen are very well planned and aren't real expensive. Andrew also does or used to teach privately. I think he lives in the Los Angeles area. Look him up online.

katt

Top
#1242371 - 08/03/09 02:16 AM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: charliehornsby]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1080
Loc: California
This is my conclusion:

Music is the "pearl of great price."

You just do whatever it takes to make it happen, and that means a whole bunch of trial and error, among other things...

BTW, I went through my piano books and found 2 Andrew Gordon books with Riffs. He has a lot of good riffs in the bunch, with a CD, but no explanation, just the riffs...some of them are pretty challenging.


Edited by Nikalette (08/03/09 02:53 AM)

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#1244753 - 08/06/09 01:09 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Nikalette]
charliehornsby Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 45
Loc: Los Angeles
it's cool to see how this thread has grown into some cool stuff.

1. what books do you guys recommend for solos and transcriptions?

2. what devices do you guys use to transcribe? how do you guys do that?
a. i'm a mac guy. i have a macbook pro. do you burn tunes to your iTunes and then move them
somewhere else?
b. do you download tunes off iTunes?
c. what's the most effective way to do this?

Thank you!
_________________________
http://charliehornsby.com/

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#1244772 - 08/06/09 01:21 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: charliehornsby]
charliehornsby Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 45
Loc: Los Angeles
also....

when working on blues and pentatonic scales. i like to jam and turn the exercise more into fun playing, so that i'll play longer smile

so, i'm wondering do you guys have some good voicing that you guys like to use in left hand for rock/blues type songs.

i tend to go with the 3,7,9 do you guys change this up at all? how can you work on the left hand voicings as well as your pentatonics?

also, as far as scales and soloing, what are the most important to have down pat?
1. Blues?
2. Pentatonics?
3. then what?

thanks!
_________________________
http://charliehornsby.com/

Top
#1244774 - 08/06/09 01:22 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: charliehornsby]
KlinkKlonk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 362
Transcribe! is free for 30 days, it works with Mac and play both mp3 files and Wav.

http://www.seventhstring.com/

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#1244780 - 08/06/09 01:30 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: KlinkKlonk]
KlinkKlonk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 362
Someone mentioned the Bert Ligon book, I think it's really worth checking it out. More organic approach to playing changes then the chord/scale approach. Connecting chords with linear harmony http://www.amazon.com/Connecting-Chords-Linear-Harmony-Ligon/dp/0793561930

Also I'm abit curious about this book http://www.byrnejazz.com/product.php?id=17 and I'll probably get it soon.

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#1489970 - 08/07/10 01:03 AM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: charliehornsby]
Jeffrey Preston Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 90
Loc: Elma NY
Originally Posted By: charliehornsby
and i need help and guidance. is there ANYTHING out there or ANYONE i can talk to about help here? a book? a teacher? a site? anything? i just want to be a good soloist. i want to be able to burn... why is this so hard? what am i doing wrong?! please help!!!!!


Look within your self, you must find what drives you. You must come in contact with your inner feelings, and find the passion and love, hate or sorrow you feel at that exact moment.

While playing the solo of course.

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#1489987 - 08/07/10 02:04 AM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Jeffrey Preston]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Instead of telling yourself that you suck, you should focus on what the problem is. Listen to yourself, or find a teacher. Like Bill Evan's said knowing your problem is half the battle.

I am sorry to say but music is hard, and it's a very slow learning process. Pretty much every great players (including Dave Liebman, Michael Brecker, Bill Evans) will tell you that they are slow learners and it takes them month to get one new thing into your playing. It might take 10 yrs of hard practicing to be able to burn like the guys you look up to. But you will get what you put in it if you let go off your expectations and just focus on what you need to work on.

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#1490000 - 08/07/10 02:59 AM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: etcetra]
wavelength Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Vermont, USA
So... let's hear it, then.

Top
#1989846 - 11/22/12 04:28 PM Re: HELP ME!!!!!! My piano solos SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: charliehornsby]
Michael Martinez Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/22/12
Posts: 399
Loc: California
Old thread, but still valid for a lot of musicians.

In order to improvise, you must do four things:

1. Identify the tonic chords in your song

2. Harmonize or re-harmonize the melody around those tonic chords

3. Know the set of tones that is appropriate to play for *each* chord in your final harmonized version (and likewise which tones are *not* appropriate to play).

4. Identify the pivot or "fulcrum" tones on each chord. These are one or two tones that are attraction points during the improvisation. The choice of fulcrum depends on the harmonic function of the chord in relation to the key of the moment.

The stronger your harmonization of the melody and the more carefully chosen the fulcrum points, the stronger your improvisation.

rock on

Peace





Edited by Michael Martinez (11/22/12 04:31 PM)
_________________________
Music Educator, Computer Engineer, avid reader of literature, enjoyer of the outdoors
http://www.michael--martinez.com/music/

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