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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
i just wouldn't think you'd been trained to have poor technique...


No one attempts to train poor technique. It's just that nobody really showed me how to get my hand supporting consistently. I was never balanced and never used my fingers enough. Nothing felt comfortable and I knew more than anyone that my sound was never under much control.

I played the Rachmaninoff 2nd with orchestra a couple of times at Uni (neither of which ground to a halt), so we're not talking complete ineptitude. However, I wasn't exactly about to book Carnegie Hall. Playing was more frustrating than enjoyable, most of the time. I'm not suddenly Horowitz, but I feel control and consistent progress in a manner that had never happened before.

Last edited by Nyiregyhazi; 08/09/09 11:03 PM.
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Well, that's great...for you. Now quit force feeding it to us. Who knows? Maybe something else works for us.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
I just wouldn't think you'd been trained to have poor technique at that level of playing...aaaaannd I never said anything about a Bmus degree making someone a pro. STOP putting words in my mouth.


Amateur= doesn't earn money
Pro= does earn money

Apologies for not stressing that you could also have meant a 'semi-professional' (which is frankly a subset of a professional), but is another discussion on grammar really that important to you?

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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Well, that's great...for you. Now quit force feeding it to us. Who knows? Maybe something else works for us.


My apologies for answering your question. Go and do what works for you then, instead of criticising what works for me.

Last edited by Nyiregyhazi; 08/09/09 11:08 PM.
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This is how my hands look at the piano.

[Linked Image]

Sure. They're a little tense. What's wrong with that?

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Originally Posted by eweiss
This is how my hands look at the piano.

[Linked Image]

Sure. They're a little tense. What's wrong with that?


The form is very good, but you should really trim your talons more often.

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Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
I just wouldn't think you'd been trained to have poor technique at that level of playing...aaaaannd I never said anything about a Bmus degree making someone a pro. STOP putting words in my mouth.


Amateur= doesn't earn money
Pro= does earn money

Apologies for not stressing that you could also have meant a 'semi-professional' (which is frankly a subset of a professional), but is another discussion on grammar really that important to you?


What does that have to do with anything? Other than being another red herring to cover up the fact that you have nothing meaningful to contribute.


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Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Well, that's great...for you. Now quit force feeding it to us. Who knows? Maybe something else works for us.


[...] instead of criticising what works for me.


Seems you've done plenty of that yourself...


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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
I just wouldn't think you'd been trained to have poor technique at that level of playing...aaaaannd I never said anything about a Bmus degree making someone a pro. STOP putting words in my mouth.


Amateur= doesn't earn money
Pro= does earn money

Apologies for not stressing that you could also have meant a 'semi-professional' (which is frankly a subset of a professional), but is another discussion on grammar really that important to you?


What does that have to do with anything? Other than being another red herring to cover up the fact that you have nothing meaningful to contribute.


Seeing as one either earns money for doing something or does not, I used the only possible alternative of 'professional'.

Sorry, I'm simply defending myself against the accusation that I of put words "into your mouth". If someone is not an amateur, they must be a professional.

As I said, I'm not terribly interested in debating grammar, but I am quite willing to defend myself against any accusations.

Last edited by Nyiregyhazi; 08/09/09 11:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Well, that's great...for you. Now quit force feeding it to us. Who knows? Maybe something else works for us.


[...] instead of criticising what works for me.


Seems you've done plenty of that yourself...


I've only criticised that which doesn't work.

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Your overbearing, bombastic grandiloquence is tiresome.


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Good one eweis!

Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
My honest opinion is that you could free yourself up a lot more if you followed the Tai-Chi principles- by aiming to move slowly and comfortably ie. without sudden tensions or release but with constant control.
You obviously know nothing about Tai-Chi either. It's a fighting system based on sudden tensions and release, dummy!

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Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Good one eweis!

Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
My honest opinion is that you could free yourself up a lot more if you followed the Tai-Chi principles- by aiming to move slowly and comfortably ie. without sudden tensions or release but with constant control.
You obviously know nothing about Tai-Chi either. It's a fighting system based on sudden tensions and release, dummy!


Fighting? I thought it was based on exclusively on defence, not fighting. Isn't the emphasis on smoothness and control? I've never seen anyone jerking uncomortably, before flopping about. It always seems very smooth to me. That smooth quality of movement is what you are lacking.

Last edited by Nyiregyhazi; 08/10/09 08:25 AM.
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You haven't studied Tai Chi so you don't know what you're talking about, but then that's very much the Fraser Method. All that glitters isn't gold. If you don't know what's going on that is invisible to the eye you shouldn't be making judgments. That also follows for piano technique.

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Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
You haven't studied Tai Chi so you don't know what you're talking about, but then that's very much the Fraser Method. All that glitters isn't gold. If you don't know what's going on that is invisible to the eye you shouldn't be making judgments. That also follows for piano technique.


Are there any films on youtube of a Tai Chi master who does not move smoothly, but where an alternation between clenched muscles and limp ones can be readily perceived? By all means point me in the right direction,

True, about internal issues. That's why it's important to know how forces balance. It gives you a good idea what's going on unseen by the eye eg. the substantial effort that you're having to use to compensate for your hand never being at rest. Although, that is actually rather evident on the surface, at least to my eyes. The lack of smoothness in the movements is a big give away.

What is always readily in evidence is the sound however. Sorry for being honest, but your lack of control over the sound matches with the immediate exterior. If your playing sounded comfortable, I might not worry about this 'relaxation' approach. When an unusual approach doesn't even produce results for the person who preaches it, I'm afraid that I'm inclined to wonder why anyone else might want to have anything to do with it.

If a cricketer who employed an usual grip had yet to score a single half-century, I wouldn't be particularly concerned by the internal workings. I'd simply start by wondering why he's not tried holding the bat in a comfortable grip. If he was one of the top-scorers in the league, I'd be a little more inclined to consider the inner workings that went into it.

Last edited by Nyiregyhazi; 08/10/09 09:53 AM.
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Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi

Are there any films on youtube of a Tai Chi master who does not move smoothly, but where an alternation between clenched muscles and limp ones can be readily perceived? By all means point me in the right direction,

True, about internal issues.
Therefore you have to do it before you comment!






[video:google]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8715269801425806856[/video]

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Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi

Are there any films on youtube of a Tai Chi master who does not move smoothly, but where an alternation between clenched muscles and limp ones can be readily perceived? By all means point me in the right direction,

True, about internal issues.
Therefore you have to do it before you comment!






[video:google]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8715269801425806856[/video]


Interesting certainly. However, even there the quality of movement doesn't suggest uncontrolled tension followed by limpness. Even at speed, it has a poise, that could hardly compared to the way your fingers tense and then collapse in that Schubert.

If you could put the qualities that are seen in the typically slow, solo Tai-Chi movements into your playing, I'm sure you'd find a lot more control. Would I be mistaken in assuming that they teach very slow controlled movements first, before anything explosive?

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Found about a month ago:
[video:google]http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...f6OKJTuqALrqriFBQ&q=tai+ji&hl=en[/video]

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So I take it ks you've studied Tai Chi too? Is there some meaning here or just more of your 'research'??

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Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi

Interesting certainly. However, even there the quality of movement doesn't suggest uncontrolled tension followed by limpness. Even at speed, it has a poise, that could hardly compared to the way your fingers tense and then collapse in that Schubert.
N, to paraphrase Hilary Clinton - If I walked on water, you'd say I couldn't swim"

Originally Posted by Nyiregyhazi
Would I be mistaken in assuming that they teach very slow controlled movements first, before anything explosive?
Hey, they do that for piano as well!

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