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I can't stand people who work in music education and try to be "cool" and "popular" and basically not do their job. It is a large part of a music teachers job to expand their students musical appreciation. They're there to educate, to facilitate learning, not to be an entertainer. Grr. This kind of situation really hits a nerve with me.

Umm, read my post.

I have a question about this.

This is a student who will be graduating from high school this or next year, and going on to higher education, and possibly into music studies. Is gr. 12 music a prerequisite for applying to music at a postsecondary level? If so, is there really a choice? By the same token, does one grin and bear it in order to not tee off the music department head who is doing these things?

For the second suggestion, the OP has been taking private lessons for a number of years in both voice and piano. Would this be enough for post secondary applications? Can high school credits in music be dispensed with?

As far as I know of the situation here (which is where Rebekah is), entry is by audition, combined with an acceptable university admission score which need not include music.
*disclaimer* Please check for yourself rather than just taking my word for it if you're in this situation.

If it was a Music Education degree, it'd look pretty strange and people would wonder why. Unless of course the high school was nearby, in which case the faculty would probably know about the teacher's antics and let it slide.

If it was a performance degree in piano, I doubt anybody would care.

They dont look at the subjects you did in further study, I choose because I had a different teacher and he was great. Also, if I did any other elective I would be neglecting music.... I do a great deal of it outside of school and I would really like to not have any affliations with school. First off ...

I have read all the posts, Morodiene, let me tell you that I have sung 'Think of Me' before and I am currently polishing Green Finch and Linnet Bird, I am NOT allowed to do Green Finch and Linnet Bird because she 'doesnt like it'. I understand what you are saying regarding being more open minded, sure she is the head of department and what she is doing is yes, having me 'learn'. I don't hate mainstream music, pop or music of that kind, please dont get the sort of impresion I just feel like she's forgetting one thing and that thing IS: it's about the STUDENTS. I also think that her subjectivity should not play part of the equation, my piano teacher hates opera, doesnt like mixing music with drama but he still merrily plays opera accompaniments for me and finds pleasure in imparting things fo me. My singing teacher hates a some baroque pieces, he still happily teaches me and tells me that I'm the student ... he's the guide on the side.

Some of the things she has said to me just wanted to make me cry ... "Go and learn something for once" ... "would you be quite with your comments just let me teach this child" (after she asked for my help in teaching a student). See the real problem is that to a fly on the wall I dont look angry or unsatisfied. I am her 'pet' her little side kick, she might talk so positviely of me to the principal and to her fellow staff members but she'll treat me poorly when no one else is around or if its just a small group of people. She is an orator and I admit, I am to fault because I always get enticed under her requests saying yes constantly then realing I dont have time. If I say no I cant - like I have in the past she'll publicly proclaim it to everyone.

Music is not supported in the school, she makes friends with parent and then makes these racist jokes infront of students about 'Arab parents' 'Asians' 'Africans' ... they might not seem racist as she is playing with sterotypes and is joking but I dont think is acceptable. It could jsut be me reacting but she looks good and I am making her look even better. If I dont make her look good then I wont look good either.

Oh and by the way the errands thing and the parents thing and the other favors thing ... she's the one who calls up my parents and praises me. She THINKS my parents arent supportive of me as a musciain so she calls them to tell then how 'marvellous and talented I am' ... then she says to me 'some parents just dont know how to raise thir children' ... my parents are paying for two sets of private lessons, my dad is an engineer and my mum works full time. They arent rich - I come from a middle class family but they forsake some of lifes luxuries to pay for lessons.

My mum and her have a good relationship and I even have a good relationship with her ... its only no one is there were it changes.

Rebekah, I imagine from your use of "HSC" that you are in NSW. I am in Melbourne but much of what I have to say will apply to you. (I am not a teacher, but an adult learner.)

The elite private school I attended did offer lessons (which I didn't get) as well as a weekly musical appreciation class (force-fed Sculthorpe) and choir in our own time. And the choir was almost nothing but Purcell and Handel. I can tell you it's just as frustrating from the classical-only side. The reason this happens is because it's less work for the teachers.



This makes me think you're in a Catholic school. This type of comment is *NOT PERMITTED* in a Government school, both because it is demeaning and because it is pushing religion. Back in the 1980s in Victoria a second instance would be a firing offence (and I know this because a family member got to do the firing). Probably just one would do it now.

If a religious school, I am unsure of the law.



Now you have me worried.

You know she is being paid by your parents or the taxpayers. You are not a dogsbody. If you are being used as one it is either so she doesn't have to do her own job, or to establish power over you, or to maintain contact with you beyond class. Any one of those ought to be raising a red flag.

I think you're better off simply skipping the extra-curricular music, doing your AMEB piano, and avoiding contact with this person. Maybe even changing schools. You will need to bring your parents into the loop. Others here are having a go at you for being brash, rude, talkative, arrogant and a know-it-all... pretty normal for a 17-year-old girl, but if you can stay calm and cool it would be better.



Don't let her near them. Keep your private lessons as a refuge.

P.S. Work on that spelling/grammar: "appalling", "different from", "favourite" (your spelling is the US one), possessive apostrophe etc.

I go to a government school, yes, in NSW. How embarrasing to be picked up on grammar, I'm an English major ... I do extension 2 (thats the highest level of English offered in NSW). I'll be honest and say that I just write ... I don't proof read.

I'm sorry if I appeared to be an arrogant 17 year old, ... I was quite worked up emotionally and for the past few days, some students have been terribly fustrated with her as she has this sheer, outrageous amount of oblivion in many areas. I guess I should really stop complaining since I have two months of school left. With that said I don't want to perform in the school setting anymore and I don't want to have anything to do with school productions. Despite this she continually has me learn "sound of music" to perform during exam period.

It just fustrates me to see a person with a relevant degree regarding education, underestimate and treat others in such an unexceptional way. I wonder what it is she has done during her studies. I wonder how she could just grow to be a horribly oblivious person. In saying all of this I could just be expecting someone with great intellegence, this teacher said to school kids that she reads playboy ... not even knowing what it is ... just so she can be cool.

I dont have many more months ... she'll just be another passing chapter of my life but I feel fustrated that the music education in my high school will be horribly taught. Its funny I've always wanted to be a music teacher beacuse of her at certain times, she's one of them driving motivations as I want to revolutionise things in a community with a lower socioeconomic status.

PlayWellOneDay you are fortunate to come from an elite private high school, I guess yes, the classical experience can be dry but I am not merely stressing the point that she resticts classical repertoire, I am saying that she only allows for pop and I am sure that a lot of it has to do with her subjective tastes. In other words she is restrictive as she has assumptions of people. She does not understand that she is the 'guide on the side' not the 'sage on the stage'. She might be head and I respect her position as the power and authority but I feel like she should understand that she is organising but not performing, she should really remember that her students should enjoy the performing aspect. She will often refer to the audience as uneducated and 'stupid' when in actuallity I wonder who is really 'stupid'? Many students love to watch a pianist play Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2 ... she does not allow it. She complains constantly of the students but she doesn't even put any effort into remembering their names. She calls them rats and 'boy' or 'girl' instead.

Many teachers may see her to be successful or respected as she has a teaching degree and qualification but in actuality she seems to hold limited knowledge of classical music. At least that is my impression, she said that she has classical roots in piano but she didnt like it and listed and played pop, now that is the music that she enocourages. She is limited in her knowledge, she always asks to look at the score of music if I sing or play something flawlessly, she'll make a remark like "oh faboulously played great intonation and articulation, you really know how to establish pulse, accents are outstanding, great use of phrasing and dynamics ... If there was one thing I had to say .. it would be ... accent the first note of every bar" (what happened to accents are outstanding). I asked her what is intonation and according to he its 'the tone of your natural voice'... interesting... my comments on a report "flat notes ... great intonation" ... um ok? She has said to me that I wasnt born with good intonation... and she taught me pitch and tone. What does intonation mean again? I'm confused (sarcasm)

The unproffesional behavior is strangly something that she gets away with at the same time she only does it if its just me and her or a small group of people.

It really fustrates me that students grudginly have to perform a program of the selected works that she likes ... sure she might be teaching people a lesson that you dont choose your own repetoire other people do but at the same time, this is co-cirricular.

With that said, I plan to tell her that I refuse to perform for the upcoming school concert. If I ever make an appearence in the school after I graduate I will be sure to advertise to people that private lessons are vital in the succession of music studies later in life, the school system provided especially in the state school is limited. I am not really angry at my own restrictions I am really fustated at is happening to the younger wave of students, they don't get an enriching music experience, they grow up to hate it ... not wanting to pursue it later as an audinc member or a musicain(at least that I am seeing).

My apologies for my derogatory comments, I guess I should cease writing when I am in a high emotional state.

Don't cease writing, just read everything twice before you post it. I'd guess that I delete about two-thirds of everything I write!

I wouldn't go quite this far:

Some people cannot afford it, and that would be a discouraging message. They are definitely desirable.

Rebekah,
You don't strike me as arrogant - just frustrated over the situation.

I would just make sure come off that way if/when you talk to an administrator or someone else about her.

Best of luck.

My daughter had a teacher just like her.

It's not that you sound arrogant. When I said



I was not just talking about in this instance. This fact of social interaction is a Life Lesson that more people would be better off to learn. In ANY situation, a person who lets their frustration and anger cause them to refer to another party as "idiot" or "stupid" or similar derogatory terms, **is the person who has damaged their own credibility**.

It has nothing to do with being a teenager irritated by an adult. If you were both 40 years old, and you called her stupid, your credibility would be equally damaged by your having done so.

It is a matter of learning how to professionally register a complaint about another person's behavior (in a school situation, a work situation, or a business situation). **The way you do this** will either enhance your credibility with those to whom you speak, or damage your credibility. Your usage of derogatory terms damages your own credibility with listeners, no matter the factual basis of your complaint. That's just a fact of life.

Rebekah, if, as it seems, you are in year 12 with only a couple of months before final exams (and you must be in the middle of your trials now!) what is she doing having you perform stuff in a concert unrelated to your final exams? I think you have every right to not participate, unless you wanted to run your HSC program, and it sounds like she won't allow that. Every HS music teacher I know is now focused on supporting the HSC (note to non-NSW people = Higher School Certificate, final external high school exams with a lot depending on them, including university admission index) students, not piling extra things on them! It's a very stressful time for most students - so it's no wonder you're a bit overwrought! I'd just focus on what you have to do, and leave this person behind as much as possible.
(Easy to say, I know )

Rebekah,

Sounds to me like you are experiencing a typical "school" situation. Join the crowd!

Read John Holt. I notice that Kreisler has quoted him in his signature.

You will learn a lot. You are learning alot. Now you know what not to be or do.

Music, imo, is music, no matter what genre. Although personally, a strong foundation in classical rep is very important.

To leave out a genre of music a student wishes to perform, as long as it can be performed well, is music sacralige(sp?).

Maybe she is suppose to be teaching Pop? Not classical. And the school is behind this. That is the only thing that I can see that may give her the right to do what she is doing.

Kreisler, thanks for your comments. The school system is different here, I don't need to do music but at this stage with just a month till the exam I cant just leave it... I dont have any other 'credit points' or 'units' to cover. I dont know how to explain the system but put it this way, I CANT just drop music. Final music exams are thankfully externally marked so I dont need to really worry about her bias. I'm also a vice captain so I say to administation 'oh the music department and the school is just so wonderful' ... the principal knows me and loves me ... but the way it works IS that she IS 'friends' with the music teacher and between the three of us we talk each other up.

With saying all of this, my real concern lies in the crumbling of the music department at my school. Theres nothing in the school system that says she has to do pop, I have explored syllabus content and if anything she is not properly following it. Most other teachers think that she is so nice as a collegue... on the outside she may look to be so nice but looks decieve.

The things she gets students like myself to do is appauling. My parents know bout it and allow it to happen because they tell me that its worse when I get older.

So anyway, I guess there is no reason to be mad. I'm nearly out of school, I'm just really concerned. I told her I cant do anything extra cirricular anymore... told her that I dont think I shold perform and said that my parents arent allowing to that, she said she 'understands'.

Who knows I might become a music teacher in a state school and I might wind up like her.

Its a sticky situation beacuse you see for years I have been her personal assistant, she has pulled me out of class, she has had me take order of many co-cirricular activities, I've praised her and talked highly of her to the principal and excutive staff ... she's praised me infront of staff ... it would look strange if I decided to turn that around.

I agree Rebekah, your music teacher is stupid. This is strange, usually the teacher wants all the students to play classical and maybe a little jazz.

You said you've already reasoned with your teacher yet she wouldn't listen to your suggestion, why don't you talk to your principal about this...

I really think you need to go see the principal - with a parent present - and with your list of specifics that she has done that is unprofessional. You have one month to go, so stick it out, but you can still make the principal aware of this for future students.

Good suggestion from Morodiene... but if even that makes you feel too uncomfortable, you could possibly hold this meeting AFTER you graduate, and/or send a letter afterwards, e.g., in the spirit of "I appreciate greatly the education I have received at your school, but I thought you may want to be aware of some issues that I feel in retrospect were not handled correctly," etc.