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Topic Options
#1248288 - 08/13/09 07:37 AM Help buying a Boston GP 178?
Joanne Zhang Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 24
Okay, so now I've chosen the Boston 178. After tax, my trade-in taken off, and a few discounts, the final price was around $19,500. Is this a good price for $3000 off a a Boston GP 178? The dealer said an average GP 178 in Mahogany is around $30,000. Also, should I hire a technician to evaluate it, or is that unneccessary? And if it is necessary, how much would I have to pay?

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#1248289 - 08/13/09 07:39 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Joanne Zhang]
M.O.P. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 988
Loc: Ocala, Florida
Am I correct in assuming this is a brand new piano? If so, there's no need to have it evaluated by a tech.
_________________________
Nancy Fanzlaw
Seamstress for the Band

www.FortePianoGallery.com
Forte' Blog - Technical Tuesdays
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"The piano was God's gift to music." Lou Mason


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#1248347 - 08/13/09 09:47 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: M.O.P.]
Joanne Zhang Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 24
Yes, it's a new piano. So I don't need a technician?

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#1248385 - 08/13/09 10:36 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Joanne Zhang]
Plowboy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2384
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: Joanne Zhang
Yes, it's a new piano. So I don't need a technician?


No.
_________________________
Gary

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#1248402 - 08/13/09 11:04 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Plowboy]
SeilerFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 746
Well, if you really like the piano, then you'll be in good shape. I always wonder, though, why people for the same price won't go for the next larger Kawai RX series grand. Bostons are great instruments and so are Kawai RX grands, no surprise as they are both made by Kawai.

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#1248432 - 08/13/09 11:43 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: SeilerFan]
Joanne Zhang Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 24
Sorry- my son's piano teacher says we should try many piano dealerships before coming to a consensus- looks like we will be searching around a little longer...

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#1248448 - 08/13/09 12:06 PM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: SeilerFan]
Brent B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 348
Loc: Western/Central PA
Originally Posted By: SeilerFan
.......I always wonder, though, why people for the same price won't go for the next larger Kawai RX series grand. Bostons are great instruments and so are Kawai RX grands, no surprise as they are both made by Kawai.


Ditto on that.

If you're budget is ~20k after a 3k trade-in, take a look at the Kawai RX-3 (6'1"), or save money and go with the RX-2. Kawai has the millenium III action (Boston does not), which is a bonus for the Kawai (in MY opinion).

Don't let the Boston dealer tell you the Kawai action is cheap plastic--this is what I was told by the Boston/Steinway dealer in the beginning of my piano search. That statement only reinforced his ignorance.

Good luck, take your time, and buy the piano that evokes an emotional response in you when you see it, touch it, and most importantly--play it (or listen to it if you don't play...)

If the Boston evokes that response, then by all means, BUY IT!
_________________________
Estonia 190

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#1248974 - 08/14/09 09:18 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Brent B]
Joanne Zhang Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 24
The Boston dealer spent minutes and minutes talking about how Boston is partly hand made, and Kawai is just plastic. They also lectured on how the soundboard of Boston is larger, and the strings produce 4 more inches of sound. He was also against Yamaha- he told us about how Yamaha is for hard rock, not classical music. In the end, I still bought the brand new Boston GP 178 for around $19,000, which I think is a pretty good deal! My son is very excited for it to deliver on Wednesday.

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#1248982 - 08/14/09 09:33 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Joanne Zhang]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4437
Loc: San Jose, CA
An interesting post, Joanne. Do I take it that you didn't really believe what the salesperson told you about the competition, but bought the Boston anyway (the one with the loose action, if I remember what you said earlier)? Would you mind telling us what it was that appealed to you about it? I realize it will be purely personal. We can leave aside that you felt the deal was acceptable, and since we know you did some looking around already, maybe we can also leave aside your teacher's advice to try many other dealers. You may not have had the time or energy to run the gauntlet of the dealerships over and over, and you know shopping--- some can't get enough of it, some find what they want and then stop there.

Anyway, the Boston--- what was it that made you want it?
_________________________
Clef


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#1248997 - 08/14/09 10:10 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Jeff Clef]
Brent B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 348
Loc: Western/Central PA
Congrats on the purchase! I'm sure you'll get a lifetime of enjoyment out of your new piano.

It really frustrates me, however, that so many Steinway/Boston dealers are spewing this nonsense about the competition.

Steinway is a solid company--their dealers should not feel compelled to put down the competition.

I started a new thread on this so as not to hijack this one--so if anyone wants to comment on the "Kawai is cheap plastic nonsense" please see the new thread.

Again, congrats on the purchase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________________
Estonia 190

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#1249000 - 08/14/09 10:13 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Jeff Clef]
Joanne Zhang Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 24
My son tried out several pianos at many different stores- and he liked the Boston pianos better. There was this one particular Boston piano which he said that he loved the tone (however the Steinway Model B's were much better, but completely unaffordable), so we decided to buy it. Really the dealer annoyed me a bit, however he was nice enough to include a complimentary chair and 4 tunings.

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#1249007 - 08/14/09 10:21 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Joanne Zhang]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4437
Loc: San Jose, CA
I think liking the tone is a very good reason, personally.

Pianos always come with benches. For a young child, an adjustable artist bench might be a good upgrade. The four tunings is a good deal, they often offer only one or two. A brand-new piano will need to be tuned four times the first year, as the strings stretch under up to twenty tons of pressure. The tuning stability should stabilize in time.
_________________________
Clef


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#1249443 - 08/14/09 09:41 PM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Joanne Zhang]
Joanne Zhang Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 24
Hi PW-
One of my dealers has just found a GP 193 in the Jordan Kitt's warehouse. The other Jordan Kitt's dealer and I are a bit suspicious at how fast they found it- but we still tried it out. It contains a grand and rich tone, and my son loved it! However he made very special requests to the technician- such as tightening the keys, "mellowing" the sound to more of a Steinway, and evening the pitches of each note. The final price for the 193 after liquidiation was $24k- I am looking forward to have it delivered to my home!

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#1249452 - 08/14/09 10:05 PM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Joanne Zhang]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
You might want to hold off paying until the piano has been modified to your son's requirements. I would.

The "mellowing" to be more like a Steinway is a little confusing. Can you describe this piano's current tone, when compared to a similar size Steiny?

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#1249458 - 08/14/09 10:09 PM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Jeff Clef]
masaki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 374
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Joanne,
Six years ago, I and my daughter who was in a junior-high went to a Kawai store and tried on a Kawai RX6, Kawai SK2 and Boston GP178 which were in a same price range and put on a same room of the building. It did not take more than an hour to pick the GP178 for us. The GP178 we saw at the store was much more preferable for us than the other two. And we are still using the GP178.
Congratulations for choosing the GP178 and winning the four free tunings. My GP178 has been being maintained by a Kawai MPA since I bought the GP178. I was very much impressed by his remarkable job when he came to my home first time. In my case, the first three tunings by him was free. I hope the free four tunings and succeeding ones on your GP178 will be made by a technitian who is eligible for tunig Boston pianos. Do not let any techs who have such opinion that Bostons are over-priced RXs touch your GP178.

good luck on choosing techs..

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#1249464 - 08/14/09 10:19 PM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: masaki]
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2084
Hmm...

August 13th (yesterday) you wrote that you hadn't looked at many dealers.

You didn't like the salesperson.

You say your son liked the tone, but then say that he requested serious changes in it (mellower, change in the action, and "evening" the pitches)

You wrote that you're suspicious about your dealer (though it's unclear why).
_________________________
Charles Lang

Baldwin Model R; Hardman 5'9" grand; Rieger-Kloss vertical

Jazz, pop and classical

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#1249474 - 08/14/09 10:34 PM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Brent B]
koiloco Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 622
Loc: California
wow !

I wish I knew about Boston.
Too late now smile I could have had a Steinway piano instead of my crappy, plastic-filled RX5.

Life is so unfair...

Gratz on your new Kawai piano.

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#1249738 - 08/15/09 11:24 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: charleslang]
Joanne Zhang Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 24
My son thought the tone was very grand and rich but needs to be a little mellower. On August 13th, the first trip to the Fairfax JKM, the dealer said they ran out of 193's. Yesterday, on August 14th, she said they just sent a 193 from the warehouse to their store, so I am a little suspicious on that.


Edited by Joanne Zhang (08/15/09 11:29 AM)

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#1249742 - 08/15/09 11:28 AM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: FogVilleLad]
Joanne Zhang Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 24
Most of the other 178s were very mellow and a bit muffled. However this 193 is bright and my son wants it to be a little more mellow.

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#1249838 - 08/15/09 02:30 PM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: Joanne Zhang]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Joanne, Ok, understood.

Voicing is an advanced skill. You might want to have your son be present when it's being done.

In general it's a good idea to voice a *little* at a time.

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#1249913 - 08/15/09 05:40 PM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: FogVilleLad]
koiloco Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 622
Loc: California
Voicing a brand new piano in a temporary environment ?

Not a good idea.

If you really like the piano, arrange for the "free"
voicing to be done at your home later on after the piano has time to settle
in its new home.
That's why it's important to buy a piano with a basic, fresh tone that you like
before any voicing.

Just my 2c

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#1249965 - 08/15/09 07:08 PM Re: Help buying a Boston GP 178? [Re: koiloco]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4437
Loc: San Jose, CA
Quite true; the piano is best voiced to the room, and after the instrument has settled after being moved. There's more to voicing than just working the hammers--- the instrument has to be in tune and in regulation.

I wonder if this instrument has already had the hammers altered by hardening them with lacquer, if it sounds so noticeably different from the others of the same model. It's often hard to tell in the showroom how it's going to sound at home.

Are you in a great hurry? This is not the only Boston 178 in the world; they can surely order more (it could already be in progress, especially if they're selling so well they've run out of stock).

If you don't find the evenness of action, tone, and voicing acceptable in the showroom, maybe this is not the instrument for you. It's likely you can keep the same deal that's in place, but try some more examples of the model you like, until you and your son find one you think is just about right.

Short of that, I would not accept delivery until the piano sounds and feels acceptable, before the dealer ships it. If you haven't written down the serial number already, this might be a good time to see to it. It will help you to know you've received the same piano you've played and ordered, and it will let the seller know, in a perfectly nice way, that you didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday morning.


Edited by Jeff Clef (08/15/09 07:20 PM)
_________________________
Clef


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