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#1248307 - 08/13/09 08:26 AM Teenagers and classical music
GreenRain Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 888
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
It seems that the vast majority of teens dislikes classical music and can't even name any composer beside Mozart, Beethoven, etc...

Many people beleive that it's weird that i love classical music because i'm only 18. So far i have met only 3 people that liked classical music, but even they are listening to it only occasionally.

It seems that many people thinks that every classical piece is just long, boring compositions that never ends... How many people actually knows that an average Chopin piece is 5-10 minutes long?

What do you think should be done to make classical music more popular? Should Lisitza dress like Britney? Would kissin have to put the disco ball on piano?
Seriously, i think that parents should educate their kids about music.
90% of my friends listens to crappy music like Kanye West, Spears, 50 cent, Rihanna etc...
If parents would taught their kids what's good and what's bad music, maybe more people could appreciate classical music.

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#1248318 - 08/13/09 08:42 AM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: GreenRain]
Bunneh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 399
Loc: Berlin
No offense, but how can you summarily rule that their music is "bad", while yours is "good"? Wouldn't your friends be entitled to believe it's just the other way around?
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aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.

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#1248330 - 08/13/09 09:03 AM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: GreenRain]
Basia C. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 358
Loc: Sweden
Good and bad muscic? All music is good music (within limits grin ). I don't find it very strange that we have different tastes in what sounds exiting and interesting.

Well, to spread interest for classical music I can see the following openings for example:

What classical music DO most people like? One answer is film music. Maybe it would be possible to build up a interest starting from that point of view?

Why do you like classical music? Could the same thing inspire others too? If so, don't hesitate to share.

I think grown-ups might have already desided that they dislike certain music styles, and might not want to change easily. If you want to influence it should be better to start with younger people.

It's probably a lot due to tradition. You like what your parents and other role models like. Why would you like classical if noone at home or among your friends like it? Solution to that would be to create more opportunities for people to listen to classical, and to meet others that do. Classical music getting media attention is probably very important too.
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#1248411 - 08/13/09 11:16 AM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Basia C.]
GreenRain Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 888
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Originally Posted By: Bunneh
No offense, but how can you summarily rule that their music is "bad", while yours is "good"? Wouldn't your friends be entitled to believe it's just the other way around?


I agree that music can be judged only to a certain point. But there are definitely some "artists" that can be "eliminated" easily...

What i love in music is creativity. I love unique songs or pieces. I love artists that are creative, artists with talent...

The singers that i pointed out in my point are all sell outs. They create music that is popular. They have very little talent and they do not care about they artistic freedom...

I don't mind if someone listens to them, but the sad thing is, that so little people appreciate different and quality music... Most people listens to "catchy" commercial songs that can be written in 5 minutes...



Originally Posted By: Basia C.
Good and bad muscic? All music is good music (within limits grin ). I don't find it very strange that we have different tastes in what sounds exiting and interesting.

Well, to spread interest for classical music I can see the following openings for example:

What classical music DO most people like? One answer is film music. Maybe it would be possible to build up a interest starting from that point of view?

Why do you like classical music? Could the same thing inspire others too? If so, don't hesitate to share.

I think grown-ups might have already desided that they dislike certain music styles, and might not want to change easily. If you want to influence it should be better to start with younger people.

It's probably a lot due to tradition. You like what your parents and other role models like. Why would you like classical if noone at home or among your friends like it? Solution to that would be to create more opportunities for people to listen to classical, and to meet others that do. Classical music getting media attention is probably very important too.


I disagree that all the music is good. I am not suprised that we have different tastes, but with the fact, that some people do not care for the quality of music. In every ganre you can find good singers... Metal, rock, country, pop, soul, funk...

I do agree with you about the last part of your posts. I have noticed that many people are listening to the music that others are. I found this pretty sad. Although i'm only 18, I listen completely different music that my friends... Chopin, Brahms, Alkan, Michael Jackson and Nine Inch Nails are not excatly "most wanted" amongst my friends (Although everyone likes at least one MJ's song).

I still insist that parents should expose the kids to different styles of music...
My nephew is only 12 years and he has a great taste (Beatles, Lennon etc...) because his father listens to good and various music...

When i'll have kids, i will definitely expose them to all styles...

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#1248482 - 08/13/09 12:46 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: GreenRain]
NocturneLover Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 149
Loc: Dantooine
Times change and back in Beethoven's time, classical music was pop music. I too had many peers who only listened to hip-hop and rap and although those songs do sound cool, nothing enriches your soul like classical music.

The other day I was listening to Chopin Nocturne op. 9 no. 2 on Youtube and I realized there was a suspiciously high number of views and it turned out there was a group named "Muse" who had this piece at the end of one of their songs. This is how the masses are acquainted with classical music, and frankly I think it is a good idea for uber-popular artists to include classical music. This is how the teenage population is exposed to it.

The same can be said for Clair de Lune, which in fact owes its popularity to many of the movies such as Twilight and Ocean's that feature it. Who knows? After hearing the piece in their favorite movie, some teens will want to take up piano and they will develop a more cultured love of classical music. wink
_________________________
"...music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." -Ludwig van Beethoven

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#1248508 - 08/13/09 01:15 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: GreenRain]
Basia C. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 358
Loc: Sweden
There certainly is music I like, and music I don't like; music I think is played well and music I think is played poorly. However, I believe that it's not really possible to have an absolutly objective definition of what quality is that is always valid for art or music.

Wasn't it Mendelsohn's music that was bad just because Wagner said so? (And didn't Wagner even change his mind about it?!) And the impressionists' paintings were considered horrible for a long time. Or take a look at the discussion in the thread about the dark side of competitions in pianists corner; everyone in that thread is not agreeing on how to judge quality.

To make it even more complex, we certainly do not choose by appeared quality alone. Sometimes I buy fast food just because it tastes nice and I'm in a hurry, not because it's particulary well made. A kid might want a schoolbag that looks like the other kids', not one that is original. And sometimes we simply go for the best price. There is nothing really wrong with that. As for music someone migh like an artist because of the lyrics, the interesting rythms, because the artist is from their home town or happened to be playing live at their first date.

What I want to say is that you will not be sucessful in convincing someone to have a try listening to your favorite music if you tell them their idol can't sing. wink

( By the way, we have a Swedish artist, Robert Wells, that is really terrific in spreading interest for music, including classical. He has a classical background, but he is amazing in all gengres and mixes all styles in his concerts. http://www.wellsmusic.se/ )

Generally speaking, I think we are going towards a little better times when it comes to classical music. My impression is that people do listen more to different kinds of music nowdays. A teenager might actually have both a piece of Mozart and a classical movie theme along with rap and heavy metal on the Mp3. What do you think?
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#1248512 - 08/13/09 01:21 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: GreenRain]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1081
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: GreenRain
It seems that the vast majority of teens dislikes classical music and can't even name any composer beside Mozart, Beethoven, etc...

Many people beleive that it's weird that i love classical music because i'm only 18. So far i have met only 3 people that liked classical music, but even they are listening to it only occasionally.

It seems that many people thinks that every classical piece is just long, boring compositions that never ends... How many people actually knows that an average Chopin piece is 5-10 minutes long?

What do you think should be done to make classical music more popular? Should Lisitza dress like Britney? Would kissin have to put the disco ball on piano?
Seriously, i think that parents should educate their kids about music.
90% of my friends listens to crappy music like Kanye West, Spears, 50 cent, Rihanna etc...
If parents would taught their kids what's good and what's bad music, maybe more people could appreciate classical music.


For my daughter's birthday I gave her some cash, and one of the places we went was Guitar Center, where she and I picked out 3 guitar books. One I picked, had classical pieces, just because the tablature was easy to read and it was at about her level. She instantly fell in love with the simplified version of Moonlight Sonata, and has also started working on Fur Elise. I didn't push it, I just put it out there. Her summer guitar class at the local junior college (she's 16 and in high school, but can take classes there)was great... The instructor gave out weekly packets including famous rock guitar riffs from Roy Orbison to heavy metal, along with country finger picking and a classical piece. So adults just need to put the classical out there as one choice among many, and as other posters have said, all music can be good or bad...I like classical, jazz, blues, rock, folk, country, dixieland, R & B, boogie woogie, heavy metal, and we listen to everything in our home.

Perhaps when you're starting your own family you might try to be open minded to other types of music besides classical, otherwise your own kids might just end up hating it.

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#1248526 - 08/13/09 01:44 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Nikalette]
J Cortese Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 357
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
They're probably a lot more familiar with more classical pieces than they think -- the music itself I mean, not who wrote what and whose picture you show them. Play them some Grieg, and I guarantee they'll know it. A Rossini overture or two, they'll know it, some Wagner, they'll know it. They just don't know what they know, for a better way of putting it.

And I also don't quite buy the polarization of "good" music and "bad" music. If you accept that 90% of everything is crap, then most music sucks, including most classical. And most of it IS junk. There's over 500 years of the stuff if you broaden the term; it can't all be good. It's stacking the deck to compare several centuries of music, which has had time to boil away and leave only the best of the best, with only a few decades of modern stuff.

I'd definitely say that good classical is better and more creative and beautiful than a lot of the McCrap you find around today ... but better than Simon & Garfunkel? Better than Billy Joel or Queen? Better than Elton John, Carole King, Journey, Stevie Wonder, or Carly Simon? Mmmmm ... not so much. Luciano and Bubbles can kick the collective asses of most modern singers, too -- but Frank Sinatra? Sam Cooke? Cass Elliot? Ann Wilson? Steve Perry? Barbra Streisand? Mmmmmmm ... again, not so much. (There's probably a few people around today who will assume a position in the modern "classical" canon, too. I'm just not as tuned into what young people are listening to today.)

In general though, don't forget that you're comparing the best of the best of about 400 years of music with a form of music that is younger than some people posting here.

And definitely open yourself up to more forms; I was raised on classical and opera in my house and loved it. I still do. But the late seventies were when I first became aware of "outside" music, just in time for rock to hit a period of extravagant melodic performance with hugely popular, very high solo male voices. Am I ever glad of that. I would rank "Send Her My Love" alongside "Una furtiva lagrima" in a heartbeat. And if you ever want to see Baroque opera in its native format as it might have truly looked 300 years ago, I recommend you watch Styx perform "Kilroy Was Here."

And I like listening to cheez-whiz sometimes, too. *shrug* Sometimes you want a gourmet meal, sometimes you want a burger and fries.


Edited by J Cortese (08/13/09 01:45 PM)
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#1248639 - 08/13/09 05:18 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: GreenRain]
RobinL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 32
Originally Posted By: GreenRain

The singers that i pointed out in my point are all sell outs. They create music that is popular. They have very little talent and they do not care about they artistic freedom...



Surely to create music that is popular requires talent? I accept not all of them write their own songs, but I think Mr. West does.

I listen to classical and pop - take the best of everything I say.

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#1248651 - 08/13/09 05:44 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: RobinL]
J Cortese Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 357
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
"Sellout" just means popular sometimes, although I do understand that there is a kind of pre-produced mass "talent" that seems to fall into that category, and that the "talent" involved is usually talent in the marketing and plastic surgery and not in the songwriting.

But a lot of times, anything that's well-loved is also called a sellout, no matter the uniqueness or brilliance and beauty of the music itself. It's a word that has a meaning that's often lost in the noise of people using it to attack anything well-loved.

I remember the old slam directed toward a lot of what are now regarded as excellent bands in the 80s: "corporate rock." All it appeared to mean was that the band members could actually play their instruments and no one had choked on vomit or destroyed themselves with heroin before the age of 30. Sure, there was pre-packaged McMusic at that time with better marketing and gloss than lyrics, but that was never the stuff that got slammed.
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#1248688 - 08/13/09 07:13 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: GreenRain]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: GreenRain

What do you think should be done to make classical music more popular? Should Lisitza dress like Britney? Would kissin have to put the disco ball on piano?
Seriously, i think that parents should educate their kids about music.
90% of my friends listens to crappy music like Kanye West, Spears, 50 cent, Rihanna etc...
If parents would taught their kids what's good and what's bad music, maybe more people could appreciate classical music.


I think it's more about people shying away from complexity in all its forms. If Classical music is like reading a novel, most contemporary music is like watching the movie version. The latter is easily accessible and quickly forgotten, while the former takes a bit of effort and imagination, but is much more rewarding in the long term.

The problem is that many parents today have only been exposed to rock and pop music in their youth themselves, so there is little they can teach their children about more intricate forms of music. I frequently go to Classical music concerts here in Boulder, and it seems like the median age is around 60 to 70. It's pretty sad, really. The current generation of children will have to overcome the cultural ignorance of their parents' generation on their own it seems.

If anything, a youth who appreciates and prefers Classical music (which of course does not mean never listening to anything else) simply has good taste and in all likeliness above-average intelligence.
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#1248749 - 08/13/09 08:52 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Martin C. Doege]
BarbVA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 166
I find this an interesting topic from someone who claims to be "only 18", when I was 18, it was "I AM 18", had my own place and responsible for and supported myself. I'm not trying to be rude, but how many of us really grasped in our teenage years the appreciation for our parent’s music, whether it is Classical, County, Bluegrass, Heavy Metal or Rock?

Could it not be said that perhaps some parents spend more time teaching their children proper grammar? Why are the parents to fault? Should the question simply not be, why can't more teenagers accept and enjoy the beauty of classical music? Why does it have to be the parent's fault?

On that note, I have 5 children ages 6-23. Two of them enjoy classical music. My 16-year-old boy puts it on every night as he says it helps him sleep. My 23 year old asks me all the time if I've learned certain classical pieces yet, I've not. But he wants to know as soon as I do because he loves those songs. So why is it my fault that 2 of my 5 children enjoy it and the other 3 don't? Answer, it's not, everyone develops their own taste and style in music genre and it may change throughout the years, but it is NOT the parent’s fault that your friends listen to what they listen to. I'm sure their parents are just as mortified.

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#1248844 - 08/13/09 11:24 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: BarbVA]
Mozartfan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 7
Well I too know this, I used to be a teenager myself about 2 years ago, but most of my friends think the same about classical music. I can tell you stuff like electro house is not music because it's not properly structured other genres yes.

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#1248850 - 08/13/09 11:30 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Mozartfan]
Sean-Patrick Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 20
Im 14 and im a HUGE classical Music fan! Prefer romantic era though.. Chopin ftw! And honestly- I think 'good' and 'bad' music varies from person to person. Bare in mind, one mans meat is another mans poisin. smile

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#1248917 - 08/14/09 05:14 AM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: GreenRain]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
I loved classical music when I was a teenage and my children also love classical music today. The reason is very likely because my parents love classical music. Still, I found few of my friends in high school cared for it. Some of them are still friends and we still get together but what we have in common isn't music - more like life, parenting, jobs, the economy.... It's ok that most 18-year-olds can't name composers other than Mozart or Beethoven. Do you realize the score from the Transformers movie is classical music. It's good and my kids love it too, so do many 18-year-olds, but they don't realize it's classical music because it's cool or hot if you're refering to Ms. Megan Fox.

There are many phases in life, and being 18 is about fitting in, friends, talking about music. You just need to find 18 year olds that also enjoy classical. Rare but they are out there. I found some when I was 18, not easy. The good news is, by the time you are 30, nobody cares what you listen to, and by the time you are 40, you don't care what anybody else listens to.
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#1248970 - 08/14/09 09:07 AM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: J Cortese]
Larry B Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 377
Loc: Boston
Originally Posted By: J Cortese

And I also don't quite buy the polarization of "good" music and "bad" music. If you accept that 90% of everything is crap, then most music sucks, including most classical. And most of it IS junk. There's over 500 years of the stuff if you broaden the term; it can't all be good. It's stacking the deck to compare several centuries of music, which has had time to boil away and leave only the best of the best, with only a few decades of modern stuff.


Beautifully put! And your examples are perfect.

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#1249166 - 08/14/09 02:00 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Larry B]
Motorama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 222
Loc: Europe
Spear is pretty talented to me.
But I consider Britney Spears as the combination of all her producers, composers, lyricists, mixers and so on.

In many of her songs I feel creativity, talent, original sound management and I'm entertained while I listen to it, which is what is important. So I don't think there is any objective way to classify bad music and you're wrong if you think you've found one.

That being said music is first of all communication and social aggregation (as explained in Levitin's book "The worlds in six songs) and the most natural and smartest thing a human can do is to possess a musical culture which is up to date and to devote most of his musical knowledge to modern popular music expressions. That's how you feel part of a society and its expressions.

So classical music is great to me and I love it and its complexity and structure is due to past circumstances and to past ways of expression. Likewise the minimalism of our modern music fits perfectly our modern times, our social dynamics and our technology. You're forgetting that even "classical composers" started to promote minimalism, futurism or "presentism" if you want, which makes the argument about shying away from complexity rather irrelavant.

Whatever conservatives say, it's the most natural thing for a young person to be attracted more to what is modern than what is old, in fact we have to thank this instinct if there's such a thing a progress.

I still think that music appreciation is individual and that people have a right to dislike classical music and we have the right to respect their taste, like they would respect the fact that I might dislike a lot of music they like.

Complexity means nothing, it's the most meaningless thing ever, complexity is not conscious, it just happens. No composer plans to compose a "complex" piece, he just composes according to his inspiration and complexity might or might not be needed, in that specific case, to express what he wants to express.

There's nothing about classical music inherently better than any other music, there's nothing about classical music that should make its appreciation and knowledge compulsory. Classical music is first of all historical music, music of the past, music inspired by circumstances that are defunct now and will never come back.

Whatever school or government program or project to make people appreciate classical music would not only be useless but also offensive. People don't need to appreciate classical music, period. You want to educate people in music, you want to cultivate their musical comprehension and appreciation? Good, but use the kind of music they, as individuals, like.
So the black metal lover should be forced to appreciate classical music, but should be helped in having a deeper understanding of the music he likes, its structure, its history, its social meaning. That's the only kind of musical appreciation education we can put forward.

Also, let's not forget that it's music people don't listen. There's a big difference between music and songs.
In songs the lyrics are even more important than the music.
But it's instrumental music fault for having broken the bridge between popular music, popular audience and contemporary instrumental music. It's contemporary music that isolated itself in a ivory tower of closed mindedness and arrogance.

Project like Masterprize, are the evidence that people of every kind and age, are attracted to classical and contemporary music when an effort is made to remove all the snob holier than thou attitude from that music and its performers. Soundtrack suites are another example of the interest people have for instrumental music.

Unfortunately theaters and halls still have that snob and unenthusiastic attitude that turns people off. Keith Edwards explains it better than I could in this article:

The Future of Classical Music


As for teenegers, I would avoid making stereotypes about the their tastes. The truth is that whether you take a group of teenagers or a group of old adults or a group of parents, there will always be just few free thinking, enlightened individuals in the group. The rest will always comform. So there isn't the slightest difference between teens or older adults, they're just individuals, each different from the other and more or less influenced by social conformism.

Also, it's not like all young people are trying to be fashionable or are interested in shallow culture (one aspect of pop culture, there's also a lot of non shallow pop culture) Life isn't an episode of Hannah Montana or Lizzie McGuire and real people at not like that.

There are millions of kids taking music lessons, playing in orchestra or bands, practicing piano and most of them love classical music and knows a lot about it.


Edited by Motorama (08/14/09 06:11 PM)

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#1249212 - 08/14/09 03:08 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Motorama]
GreenRain Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 888
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
I don't have the time to reply on every post now, but I definitely will tomorrow!

But i just want to say that some people missunderstood me. I'm not saying that all and only classical music is good. I also listen varios singers and bands. I am not listening to the classical music more than 50% of the time.

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#1249318 - 08/14/09 06:03 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: GreenRain]
J Cortese Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 357
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: GreenRain
I don't have the time to reply on every post now, but I definitely will tomorrow!

But i just want to say that some people missunderstood me. I'm not saying that all and only classical music is good. I also listen varios singers and bands. I am not listening to the classical music more than 50% of the time.



Yeah, I think we did sort of wander off from where you started ... but I also think that the definition of what constitutes classical music is a bit broader, and that some of the stuff that the kids you were talking about listen to is probably slotting into the classical canon as we speak.

And I also think that they probably know more classical music than they think they do. It's just not fashionable to act like it. :-)
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#1249322 - 08/14/09 06:15 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: J Cortese]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
I will believe that teenagers love Classical music when they show up at a Classical concert/opera/Cole Porter musical/whatever out of their own accord, and not because their parents or grandparents dragged them there.

Having "Eine kleine Nachtmusik" on your iPod doesn't count as proof. In the long term the Classical music scene is in major trouble if the younger generations cannot be bothered to attend live performances!
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#1249335 - 08/14/09 06:51 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Martin C. Doege]
Motorama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 222
Loc: Europe
That got nothing to do with teenagers.
The classical music world is apethetic and closed minded and is making people of all kind shy away from it. Read the article I posted. The classical music scene has been in major trouble for at leat fitty year and it's nothing but its fault.

Anyway classical music is just music.
I love fantasy and fantasy novels but I don't get alarmed by realizing that lot of people don't like that kind of literature and it's their right not to. The topic is way more complex than exploiting lame stereotypes about young people, when I know more young people who love classical music than people in their 40's or 50's.

Classical music doesn't strike a chord in everyone.
I have known eleven year old kids that after listening to a classical piece on the radio, wanted immediately to know more about that music and started to buy cds and to read specialized magazines. Likewise I have known lot of adults that couldn't give a care.

I still think that it's pretty natural for a society to be more knowledgeable about the music of its present than the music of its past, because it's the music of the present that expresses social dynamics according to the sensitivity and circumstance of the present. If the music of the past wants to be more known and appreciated, those promoting it must find ways to make it more appealing, accessible, affordable ... first of all by getting rid of that ridicolous patronizing snoot attitude.

Anyway the best evidence that among teens, like in whatever other group, there are several classical music lover, is the fact that millions of teens are studying music and playing an instrument.

During the classical era no one would listen to baroque music.


Edited by Motorama (08/14/09 07:09 PM)

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#1249336 - 08/14/09 06:52 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Martin C. Doege]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5539
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
I remember when I'd look around at an opera, or a symphony concert, and think "there's only gray hairs here, whose going to be in the audience 40 years from now?"

40 years later - I'm one of the gray-haired ones. And 40 years from now, it'll probably be someone else. Something happened in those 40 years smile

Cathy

"who's", dum-dum.

smile

"dumb-dumb", dumb-dumb.

laugh


Edited by jotur (08/14/09 07:33 PM)
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#1249345 - 08/14/09 07:06 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: jotur]
Motorama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 222
Loc: Europe
The reason why people in their 70's listen, probably, more classical music, is that when they were young most of the LPs available were classical music. Classical music has been the first one to be recorded for the phonograph, so there was more classical music around than pop music. It's a sort of old age traditionalism that lead people to get back to what they used to listen when they were young.

When the 5 year olds of nowadays will be 70, they will probably listen to "old music" which will be the music we consider now modern and not classical music.

But my hope is that concert halls will be desert soon, that's the only way to seriously hope for a reform in the classical environment ... to get rid of the snoot vibes, of the old dead weights, of all the pseudointellectual ilk and give classical music back the life sparkle it deserves.

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#1249349 - 08/14/09 07:21 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: jotur]
angelas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 114
Loc: New Zealand (South Pacific, Do...
Hey...you go GreenRain. I'm with you on the music thing. I reckon there's heaps of crap out there and do not subscribe to the doctrine that there is "no good or bad music". I'm only a beginner piano player but know decent music from crap and there's a lot of crap out there. Half of it is females gyrating, half-naked in front of the camera and about 30% is rap or R&B and then there is death metal, thrash metal and punk (usually guys screaming into a mic with or without hair).

My dad love light opera, jazz and blues and mum loved Dusty Sprigfield, Elvis, Gene Pitney. I couldn't abide it as a kid but funny though, that as the years have rolled on, I've gone back a little to the stuff my parents listened to - particularly jazz and blues and have found myself trying to get the kids into Steely Dan, the Doobies, Supertramp and mostly 70's stuff. If they moan, they get disco or Frank Sinatra. I just love disco and Frank. My kids don't always get it but I think they appreciate it a little more as the days roll by - not that the world evolves around my music tastes, but I think there's more to music than Britney and Rihanna. You wouldn't go to a concert to hear an arrangement of "oops I did it again" or "umbrella" or something by Lady gaga.
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#1249353 - 08/14/09 07:29 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: angelas]
J Cortese Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 357
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I don't think classical concerts will become deserts ... but they will change, if only because the latest generation of classical musicians are coming from an age cohort that took rock and pop for granted as good music.

Classical music will never quite catch up to today's pop, but it shouldn't really. "Classical" means immortal, and you can't tell what's immortal and what isn't until enough years go by for the corpses to start piling up. You can't tell what's timeless and what isn't right then and there.

So it'll always be a generation or two out of sync, but contemporary music of some form will find itself a place there. And like jotur said, there's always greyhairs around. :-)

Also -- one additional little bit -- classical music concerts can't be called entirely snooty because they're just so damned much CHEAPER than pop concerts. I paid $50 to hear Andreas Scholl sing, and as much as I like his voice, if Perry ever went back on tour, I'd probably have to fork over two grand for SROs. For $150, I can hear Placido Domingo this November. That wouldn't get you within 50 miles of a Prince or Madonna concert. *grumble grumble* Tell ME what the true "music of the people" is ... *steps off personal soapbox*
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#1249363 - 08/14/09 07:40 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: J Cortese]
Motorama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 222
Loc: Europe
Comparing classical music to pop music is like comparing apples to orange. They're completely different. The circumstance in which they were created, their role in society, the social dynamics they cover, the means by which they're promoted.

No one can tell what crap music is, because there's no objective way to define good or bad music. Tchaikovsky is still considered crap by a lot of educated listeners as he was 100 year ago.

Seated tickets category 2 for Madonna concert was 95$

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#1249364 - 08/14/09 07:40 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Motorama]
tangleweeds Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012


Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 1269
Loc: Portlandia
Originally Posted By: Motorama
The reason why people in their 70's listen, probably, more classical music, is that when they were young most of the LPs available were classical music. Classical music has been the first one to be recorded for the phonograph, so there was more classical music around than pop music.


I think your sense of history is a bit off. The first phonograph was patented by Edison in 1878, and by the 1920's there were plenty of recordings of the pop music of the day, which are now treasured as examples of early jazz. And if you do the math, people now in their 70's would have grown up listening to the pop music if the war years, which was big band and swing, while people a little younger were the first rock and roll generation.

While there are indeed plenty of people who remain fixated on the music of their adolescence or early adulthood, there are also many of us who find that our tastes in music continue to grow and develop as we age and mature, and I have to admit that I feel a bit sorry for those age peers of mine who still listen to only arena rock of the 70's, or (god help them) the music of the early MTV years.

I've discovered and enjoyed so many different styles of music since then, such as classic jazz, world music, or later classical composers like Bartok and Stravinsky (I was a big Bach fan as a teen, but didn't like anything post-baroque).

While I think it's normal for teens to relate best to the music that defines their generation, I believe that those who continue to grow and develop musically will learn to enjoy both new music and music of the past.
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#1249368 - 08/14/09 07:49 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Motorama]
J Cortese Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 357
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: Motorama
Comparing classical music to pop music is like comparing apples to orange. They're completely different. The circumstance in which they were created, their role in society, the social dynamics they cover, the means by which they're promoted.


If you can demonstrate to me the difference between a Baroque opera and a Styx concept album, including the way in which it was received by the audience, I'll eat my hat, your hat, and any other hat you toss at me.

"Classical" music is not one type of music, you know. We're talking half a millennium of stuff, here. Pop and rock are much the same -- you can't find me one metalhead who will cop to listening to a boyband.


Edited by J Cortese (08/14/09 07:50 PM)
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#1249370 - 08/14/09 07:50 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: tangleweeds]
Motorama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 222
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: tangleweeds
[quote=Motorama]
While there are indeed plenty of people who remain fixated on the music of their adolescence or early adulthood, there are also many of us who find that our tastes in music continue to grow and develop


But growing and developing doesn't mean following the classical or complex musical path. Actually, for someone listening to a lot of operas and classical in their youth, having their taste growing and developing might mean discovering pop music and electronic music. Can you see how relative the whole concept is? The pattern might often be from complexity to semplificty and minimal, rather than the other way around.

Quote:
While I think it's normal for teens to relate best to the music that defines their generation, I believe that those who continue to grow and develop musically will learn to enjoy both new music and music of the past.


It's normal for every human of whatever age to relate best to the music that defines their living era (in fact I have a book of a sociologists who blame it on old people for becoming old, meaning mentally old, focused on the past rather than the present, which is their present too) and yes it's perfectly normal to enjoy music of the past too. What I think is not normal is to enjoy and know only the past and enojy nothing and know nothing of the present. That's humanly flawed imo.

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#1249377 - 08/14/09 07:55 PM Re: Teenagers and classical music [Re: Motorama]
J Cortese Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 357
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
As long as you're always interested in something unfamiliar and curious, I think that's all that matters. Sometimes, old people find pleasure in what's old because that's how they grow. They were fascinated by newness when young, and now the past is the great unknown frontier to them. They may not simply be "stuck" in the past, they may be exploring it themselves with interest and curiosity now that they themselves are old.

The older I get, the more interested I'm becoming in VERY old music, like early Renaissance and medieval stuff. The sort of stuff they wrote before they entirely knew how to get different instruments to manage not to sound like crap together.

I'm sure this will be interpreted by some as a middle-aged woman becoming stuffy in her old age, but to me, this stuff's totally new. There's a LOT of "the past" to play with. And the kicker is that the whole damn thing was occasioned by my listening to a bunch of 80s arena rock and realizing that most of those guys were chest-voice countertenors.


Edited by J Cortese (08/14/09 07:56 PM)
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