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In all fairness to the teacher in question, perhaps he made a bad judgment call in choosing his piece to perform. We do not know what he played, only that he was not prepared to play it and he played it poorly. Perhaps he simply chose a piece that was technically too demanding to be able to play well without preparation, and he can in fact play quite well?

Also, John, to address your question about the quality of piano int the teacher's studio, I think this says a lot about the teacher. However, I know that some teachers in institutions get the bottom rung instrument because they are new to the school. In that case, I wouldn't judge the teacher by that (but I'd definitely address that issue with the director). Not every great teacher will have a Steinway grand, either. If they are new or run a smaller studio, they may not be able to afford an excellent piano. They should however, have a decent instrument in good repair and well-maintained (including tuned).

I have been reading about piano teachers being good teachers but unable or unwilling to "perform" for an interviewee. Some think there are other indicators of success as a teacher (John had a long and thrilling list) and yes, these are excellent examples of a "professional" teaching environment.

However, I think what the interviewee is asking for is to hear and see an example of the teacher's musicianship for the enjoyment of it. It seems to me to be more of an enthusiasm that they are thinking, I can't wait to start lessons with this teacher! What does this beautiful piano sound like when played by a professional musician? :They are looking for a visual and aural and kinesthetic experience at their interview not just information about you and a business agreement. They want to hear the music because it would be a catalyst to them. They may need the emotional and musical experience to cement their decision.

You know in the movies how the music fits the scene and you hear something magnificent and appropriate at the high moments? That is the effect they are looking for. To not be willing to do this for them or to be unable to play well enough they may take two steps back from the "rapture" they were looking for in you.

I hope this makes a little sense. We know as teachers that we have to communicate to the student in their learning style in a language they easily understand, and that we can build from there to increase their knowledge. But, there has to be a connection with them so they feel, see, hear, verify that the decision to start lessons with us is going to work for them.

There are probably lots of adult students circling around studios out there uncertain of making a decision - maybe they have even have interviewed and still are uncertain as to getting started. Maybe for them this is the missing ingredient that didn't happen at the interview. Playing the piano for our interviews demonstrates our musicianship - we can tell people how great we are or we can show them. Which do you think is the better example that will make a difference to them? Of course, it would be a great sales tool to be able to demonstrate that we can teach them, tell them, and show them our capabilities and capacity.

Part of the interview IS a marketing situation, isn't it? There needs to be agreement and closure on the decision to move forward together. Being aloof is not going to cut it if you think of interviews as recruitment and confirmation ventures in our search for good students to work with. I think we need to strut our stuff in the interview so there is no doubt in their mind that we are who we say we are as teachers and musicians.

And, what do they say about the first impression being the strongest? Let's not forget there is a "psychology" to this, too. To me that means being social and easy to be with during the interview. One of our jobs is to remove and tame obstacles, I think. We can be our own worst obstacles in interviews if we don't understand the objectives and skills of conducting an interview.

There is certainly enough said here as food for thought if one will actually entertain the thoughts and not just quickly react to them and dismiss them. Stimulation is one of the things I enjoy most about participating in Piano World.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Very well stated! I agree that this is probably the dynamic that is going on when beginners ask the teacher to play for them.

I used to teach cello. I don't remember anyone asking me to play before they signed up for lessons, but I certainly would have complied. I think it's a totally reasonable request.

It really bothers me how so many people decide they can earn a few bucks by teaching but don't really know how to either teach or play. Caveat emptor ...

As an adult student looking for a teacher, you're not necessarily searching for the same set of abilities in a teacher that a parent may be searching for. However, I suggest you seriously regard the import of teacher certification. A teacher with certification has demonstrated mastery - of playing and teaching. One without certification may be every bit as good, but you have no knowledgeable, independent corroboration of this. Even if you love his playing, you don't have anything to compare his teaching with. You may be progressing at one-half the speed you could have achieved with a better teacher. Certification is your starting point here. Teachers who have worked their butts off to earn certification are justifiably proud of their accomplishments, and you will find that certification posted prominently in the studio. If you don't see one, ask. You can also inquire where they studied, who they studied with, what degrees they earned, etc., You can also ask if they had a performance career, or if they play routinely in public. These are questions you should be asking teachers.

Just some suggestions to help you out here.

Betty, beautifully said. This is exactly what I was looking for. Wish I could study with you

thank you, John, appreciate it

Betty,
I agree with what you've said wholeheartedly. I wonder, though, do you insist on playing for every student you interview? Or do you only play if they ask?

I'd expect a teacher to be able to do both well, and can't fathom the polarization of the two skills. This is why teaching piano for a living is work. A brilliant performer may stink as a teacher; and if a teacher can't actually play, I'd shuck both of them. Why? Think about what it means.

Wouldn't you want as a teacher someone who really likes to play? Someone who enjoys it, who tinkers with things, messes with their favorite pieces, HAS favorite pieces, sits down when they have some free time and just noodles around with something for a few hours on the weekend at least until they get it to their satisfaction? heck, it's what I expect to do, and I work a ten-hour-a-day-job with two hours of commute time and need rather a lot of sleep.

If you asked someone to play something, and they had nothing to hand -- not even something casual, wouldn't that seem to indicate that, left to their own devices, the person you want to show you your way around this instrument just can't be arsed to do it themselves? I would expect someone who likes to play to actually do it and hence have a few things up their sleeve if you asked at any one time. I wouldn't treat them like an ipod, but if the guy wasn't prepared with anything, that means that he wasn't even bothering to sit at the thing and screw around in his own spare time.

How are you supposed to find your way around the thing if the person who is supposed to be showing you your way would apparently rather be spending their free time watching TV than playing?

And I don't have a problem expecting advanced skills in a beginner teacher, either. The teacher who started me out (and stayed with me the whole time) was extremely advanced but could also manage kids. What I expect is both sets of skills. This is rare and hard work, which is why every chump on the street isn't a piano teacher.

Yes, but are you willing to pay for the advanced mastery of these two skills? Don't expect to find said teacher at $25/hr!

You got it, Morodienne! I kind of insist I hope it comes across as just wanting to share sound and rhythms with them today because I believe we have to put our interview and first lesson into musical terms they can understand. It acts as a valid connection between us and I think it's pretty exciting for a new family to get a sample of their new teacher. I actually enjoy all parts of the interview and first lesson which takes about an hour. I try to give them every reason to choose me as their teacher....but I also say if they seem uncertain or reluctant, that it is very important to me that they choose the teacher who they feel most comfortable with and have the most confidence in.

We win some, we lose some.

Thanks for that question!

John, I wouldn't mind being known for my playing in public skills, or for a sightreading test, or giving a brief teaching class....it seems to be that could be a very exciting event....like a talent show.....or a competition to display competence. I would not recommend it being a "BONG" show though, remember that terrible tv show from years ago!

Your whole scenario has me amused. It would put many a teacher a twitter to be in the spotlight and having to answer up with a presentation to be proud of. Maybe that's just the extrovert in me!

We could also be performing one elegant or exciting piece in our own studio recital just to keep everyone informed that we can also sit on the bench and produce something marvelous on demand. The audience usually loves this part. Sometimes, I've started the program and ended the program with a piece just to make a statement without saying a word about where piano lessons can lead to for the long term student.

I can't recall what my parents paid, but we were not in possession of much disposable income. Whatever they paid my teacher, they got their money's worth.

ETA: Besides, paying bottom-dollar for a bad product isn't a bargain.

Betty, beautifully said. This is exactly what I was looking for. Wish I could study with you [/quote]

Aw, that's sweet of you, but you would want to go through the interview process and be sensible about your decision in every way. I'm glad you are finding something to think about from all the postings in this topic. It is certainly an interesting topic! I've enjoyed participating here.

I appreciate your comment to me very much, thank you!

I think we make the mistake of putting all piano teachers in the same category. The truth is, piano teachers specialize like many other professions. I doubt many divorce lawyers could represent the state in a murder case, and I wouldn't want a dermatologist to remove my appendix.

The difference is we don't have names for piano teacher specialties. Some specialize in young beginners, some work with groups, some work with classical repertoire, others popular styles, some focus on competition preparation, others just want their students to have fun.

If I was shopping around for a teacher to help me work up a classical solo recital, I'd want someone who could play classical solo recitals. If I wanted to introduce my 4 year old to music, I'd opt for someone completely different. If I wanted advice on developing a concert career, I'd want someone who's been there. And if I want someone to teach the fundamentals, I need them to know how to introduce dotted quarter note rhythms to someone for the first time.

Asking if a piano teacher should be able to play well is like asking if a doctor should be able to treat MS. Not all doctors can treat MS, that's why they have specialized neurologists.

However, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a doctor to know how to handle a patient with a complaint that fits their specialty. If a student wants a piano teacher to help them develop enough technique to prepare a Mozart sonata, then that teacher absolutely needs to be able to prepare (but not necessarily sight-read) a Mozart sonata.

This is one of those debates that gets boiled down to moot nonsense on the internet because it's based on a very artificial question: "Should a teacher be able to play the piano?" What kind of "teacher" are we talking about? What do we mean by "play" the piano? What kind of music?

I think once the original poster gets to a point they can define exactly what they want to accomplish with their lessons, it will be much easier to pinpoint the abilities and skills they should look for in a teacher.

I find the topic amusing to a degree. My first teacher, whom I only heard play once, when she accompanied me on the Mendelssohn Concerto in the studio, sent several students to Juilliard. She also taught Irving Gilmore who eventually started the Gilmore Festival. Oh, another famous student she started was Thomas Schippers (probably before your time, but he ended up conducting the La Scala) The thought just never crossed our minds to ask for a playing demonstration. Perhaps it's a generational thing. Perhaps it's because actual live in concert piano playing is so rare these days.

[quote=Morodiene]In all fairness to the teacher in question, perhaps he made a bad judgment call in choosing his piece to perform. We do not know what he played, only that he was not prepared to play it and he played it poorly. Perhaps he simply chose a piece that was technically too demanding to be able to play well without preparation, and he can in fact play quite well?
(end quote)



Thank you for cutting this teacher some slack-- Perhaps this is what happened. Have any of you been in a situation where someone just put music in front of you that you were not able to play, because it was too hard and/or hadn't learned that particular piece? A student's mom brought in a J.S. Bach prelude and fugue, set it on my piano desk, and asked me to play it. I had not studied that one and was not able to sightread it. I told her exactly that, and offered to play her another from the WTC instead. She was not interested.

That's just RUDE!! Wow, I've never had anything like that happen. I would be so embarrassed, especially if I wasn't *allowed* to redeem myself with another piece.
I'm so sorry!

I thought we had established that the piece in question was something from a Level 1 method book or syllabus suggestion.

I know I just wrote a big reply about how we shouldn't judge all teachers by the same standard, but asking a piano teacher to read a level 1 method piece is like asking a lawyer if he or she can use the word "legal" in a sentence.