This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
|
|
70229 Members
40 Forums
144287 Topics
2092976 Posts
Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
|
|
|
#1244468 - 08/06/09 04:25 AM
Arpeggios Question
|
Full Member
Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 214
Loc: Cumbernauld, Scotland
|
I working through the Grade 5 ABRSM syllabus at the moment, and I have a question about the arpeggios.
If I take C Major as an example, the standard fingering is 123 123 1235 on the way up. Am I supposed to perform a thumb under movement when I go from finger 3 on G to my thumb on the next C each time to ensure they are played legato, or is the norm to jump my whole hand to get my thumb up to the next C?
_________________________
Gerry Armstrong
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1244570 - 08/06/09 09:39 AM
Re: Arpeggios Question
[Re: Gerry Armstrong]
|
Junior Member
Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3
Loc: BRecon, UK
|
I'd like to hear an answer to this also - my piano teacher says 'thumb under' but (seemingly like all her child students - I'm 50 by the way and have spent 35 years playing guitar and mandolin - mostly semi-pro)my elbow sticks out like a broken drainpipe performing this manoever :-)
_________________________
If all the world's a stage - who's paying to watch the show?
Jeffers
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1244721 - 08/06/09 12:41 PM
Re: Arpeggios Question
[Re: aEquals440]
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13115
Loc: Iowa City, IA
|
I've always used a bit of rotation to accomplish the thumb movement, and it's one of those things that's not really an "either/or" proposition.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1244732 - 08/06/09 12:47 PM
Re: Arpeggios Question
[Re: Kreisler]
|
6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
|
Doesn't the consideration of thumb under vs. thumb over apply to arpeggios in the same way as to scales, i.e., it's primarily a question of the speed at which they're played?
Steven
_________________________
 "There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats." —Albert Schweitzer
Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46 Schumann: Toccata Op. 7 Fauré: Ballade Op. 19
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1244880 - 08/06/09 04:03 PM
Re: Arpeggios Question
[Re: sotto voce]
|
Full Member
Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 214
Loc: Cumbernauld, Scotland
|
Doesn't the consideration of thumb under vs. thumb over apply to arpeggios in the same way as to scales, i.e., it's primarily a question of the speed at which they're played?
Steven That's the answer I've had from another source, and it confirms my original suspicion that once you go beyond a certain speed it is not only very difficult but also dangerous from the point of view of injuring yourself to attempt to continue with the thumb under technique.
_________________________
Gerry Armstrong
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1245217 - 08/07/09 06:10 AM
Re: Arpeggios Question
[Re: Gerry Armstrong]
|
Junior Member
Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3
Loc: BRecon, UK
|
I'm obviously not 'up to speed' yet (ha! ha!)
_________________________
If all the world's a stage - who's paying to watch the show?
Jeffers
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1250087 - 08/15/09 11:19 PM
Re: Arpeggios Question
[Re: keyboardklutz]
|
Full Member
Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
|
I recommend you to do the "thumb under" technique, as it will make the arpeggios sound more legato. I'm not really familiar with the ABRSM examiners but I believe they will take off marks for that.
_________________________
Pianist/Piano Teacher
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1250195 - 08/16/09 07:54 AM
Re: Arpeggios Question
[Re: TonyY]
|
2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
|
I recommend you to do the "thumb under" technique, as it will make the arpeggios sound more legato. I'm not really familiar with the ABRSM examiners but I believe they will take off marks for that. A few months ago I probably would have disagreed, but I recently realised how important it is to do standard thumb under first. Skipping does not build support in the fingers or flexibility in the thumb. I've discovered that one of the reasons for a weak right hand 4th finger (and limited range of motion in the thumb) is the fact I always flicked across, rather than ever joining. A good exercise is to hold onto the thumb (while under) at the same time as the third or fourth. If you squeeze very lightly in an inward direction, the keys push you back out. If the flexibility is inadequate for comfort, this will improve it very quickly. Soon the position will be more easily obtained. However, if you already feel fully stretched when doing this with arpeggio positions, it's probably best to begin with a more comfortable interval, so you're not straining the limits of your motion early on. Once you reach comfort, you can either flick across at speed or get a comfortable legato connection at a slow tempo. It really is important to have the ability to manage either equally well. Flicking will usually start to occur of it's own accord (when movingat speed) but traditional thumb under can only be more willfully mastered.
Edited by Nyiregyhazi (08/16/09 08:01 AM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1250297 - 08/16/09 01:33 PM
Re: Arpeggios Question
[Re: Nyiregyhazi]
|
Full Member
Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
|
I recommend you to do the "thumb under" technique, as it will make the arpeggios sound more legato. I'm not really familiar with the ABRSM examiners but I believe they will take off marks for that. A few months ago I probably would have disagreed, but I recently realised how important it is to do standard thumb under first. Skipping does not build support in the fingers or flexibility in the thumb. I've discovered that one of the reasons for a weak right hand 4th finger (and limited range of motion in the thumb) is the fact I always flicked across, rather than ever joining. A good exercise is to hold onto the thumb (while under) at the same time as the third or fourth. If you squeeze very lightly in an inward direction, the keys push you back out. If the flexibility is inadequate for comfort, this will improve it very quickly. Soon the position will be more easily obtained. However, if you already feel fully stretched when doing this with arpeggio positions, it's probably best to begin with a more comfortable interval, so you're not straining the limits of your motion early on. Once you reach comfort, you can either flick across at speed or get a comfortable legato connection at a slow tempo. It really is important to have the ability to manage either equally well. Flicking will usually start to occur of it's own accord (when movingat speed) but traditional thumb under can only be more willfully mastered. Well said! This should become a habit very early on. Its hard to fix these bad habits once you get used to it, especially that its the technical stuff.
_________________________
Pianist/Piano Teacher
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|