I'm new here so I hope I'm in the right forum. Just glancing through the thread, it seem this forum is more for classical music? I may be wrong.

Anyway, I'm a 59 year old. I have always loved music. I used to have a pretty decent voice and loved to sing, I just can't hit those higher notes anymore! I used to play the drums years ago, but after I graduated high school, I lost interest.

I have mentioned a couple times to my wife that I'd like to learn how to play the Banjo. I wasn't actually 100% serious. So, one year (a couple years ago), she actually bought me a banjo!!! I tinkered with it a little, but haven't really learned anything on it.

Anyway, I have always loved the piano, especially modern, like in some of the Bob Segar music. Also, Billie Joel and Elton John are awesome. I'm not even sure what you would call this type of piano? I guess modern?

I used to know how to read music. Learned when I was in high school. Many years later it's just a memory.

I don't own a keyboard or piano of any kind. I could purchase an electronic keyboard for sure.

So, what is your opinion on the path to take for me to learn?

Can I do it on my own using ????

I think I can pretty much grasp anything that is thrown at me, so is asking "how long do you think it could take me to play my first Elton John song" asking too much?

I appreciate your opinions on this.

Ray

Hey Ray -

Welcome to the Forum!

My first advice would be to hire a private teacher, at least to get you started. If this isn't feasible, Bastian does a rather good adult method book, but there are many books out there now on teaching yourself piano. Browse through them at your local music store, and see which one you like. One of my students even had a surprisingly complete self-teaching piano book that she got from Walmart! Also, Expert Village on UTube can have some helpful videos.

And as I just mentioned to another poster, you will find this Forum very helpful. Post a question, and you'll be surprised at the number of people willing to help.

Good luck, and keep coming back!

Welcome to the forum, Ray!

I would say that AB forum does not stress classical music; my guess is that we're about 50-50 composed of people who play purely classical and those who play purely non-classical (e.g., me). The bottom line is that people here don't really care what you play. (Um... that statement is not exactly true of the Pianist Corner, which has a decidedly pro-classical stance, and is populated by people who can really play. Wander in there at your own peril. ) There is also a non-classical forum you might want to check out.

The kind of music you mention wanting to play is what I'd call pop/rock. There are lots of easy piano arrangements of this music, so I'd encourage you to pick up some collections. I like Dan Coates's arrangements a lot.

You definitely need to have some sort of piano/keyboard at home. Try to get one with 88 fully-weighted keys. The Casio Privia series gets rave reviews and is relatively inexpensive ($400 or so in the U.S. for the cheapest model.)

Just started myself (age 41) about a month ago.

I started with Alfred's Basic Adult Piano All-in-one Course Book 1 and also picked up The Idiot's Guide To Music Theory.

Both have been extrememly helpful (and fun) in teaching basic/beginner piano and reading music, key signature, and chord progression/inversion.

You will... as I have... read and hear the constant refrain for the employ of a teacher.
However, before spending that kind of money, IMHO, I would wait and be sure the new hobby will "stick".

So, my "from one adult beginner to another" advice would be to start with a $12 Alfred adult book (Amazon) and then if the "fire" is still there after a few weeks look for a teacher.

And... I am proud to say that it has stuck with me and this week I started a beginner piano class at the local community college.
In addition to giving "hands-on" feedback, the teacher can ensure what the book cannot: that your hand, fingers, wrists, form, technique (among other concerns) are correct.

I have a cheapo Casio WK-200 that was a "coupon gift" from Bestbuy and retails for about $160... It only has 76 keys, but it has been an inexpensive alternative to something "grander", while we still see if the piano fire will continue to burn.
It does lack weighted keys and conventional piano hammer key leverage, however the "grand piano" sound is surprisingly impressive and it has a bunch of built-in goodies (over 500 voices, 200 accompanying rhythms, etc.).

I now have aspirations of upgrading to something like a Yamaha CLP-series.
But... to use a personal golf analogy... many years ago I had refused to buy new clubs, fittings, grips, top-shelf balls, etc. until my golf game improved enough to justify the upgrades... the golf game eventually did improve and so did the equipment.
Hence, it will be the same with piano...

Have fun !
AC

Have you guys heard of the roll-up piano? It's a flat, plastic type keyboard that rolls up.
It connects to your PC thru the USB port. There are a couple of Youtube videos. Here is one
of a young kid playing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZr1QLlA0ko

Would it be worth it for a newbie like me?

Thanks,

Ray

No. It's a junk novelty item. It will only teach you to hate the piano.

Yes beware of the junk roll-up piano - it is completely useless. For a taste of how it feels, tap on your dining table and see if you enjoy doing that. I returned to piano playing slowly, by buying a junky old upright, followed by a digital piano, and then a grand piano. It is easier to swallow paying 5 figures if you know you will use it everyday for the rest of your life.

Also check out the other forum -Pianist Corner Non-Classical

Hi Ray,

Welcome to the ABF! There are plenty of people here who play modern music. You're probably interested more in the 70's/80's/90's "pop" category.

You can buy song books with sheet music for those songs you mentioned.

There are even internet sites that sell video lessons for specific songs. This one, for example: http://www.ivideosongs.com/

You can also find free lessons on youtube.

I do recommend a teacher also but I spent my first year and a half studying on my own with various books and Piano for Dummies. I think it's a great way to get started and see if you really get hooked! Also, many here still study on their own and have made amazing progress....I prefer classical and I'm not disciplined enough and need and enjoy the pressure and attention of weekly lessons.... but the ABF recitals are proof of how so many learn well without a teacher.

Ray,

Welcome to the forums. A couple of years ago when I took up piano for the 2nd time, I wanted (and still do) to be able to play the pop/rock stuff. What I did not understand at first is that these guys are accompanying themselves, using their voices as the melody line and their hands for the music, a lot of times playing a complex chord in the right hand and a simple bass line in the left hand. Duh, you say, but what that means is that when you buy some sheet music for a song, thinking that you sound like the original, you are in for a disappointment most of the time, since you are trying to play an arrangement with the melody line now for piano, not voice. So, if you can learn to accompany your voice, that might be the road for you. If you don't want to sing, you may want to check out learing to play from fake books or lead sheets. This is a type of sheet music with a melody line written out and the chords identified. You then "fake" the playing by using this little bit of info.

An excellent source for this type of play can be found at http://www.poppianopro.com. Peter Friesen is the author and teacher who runs this site and is a contributor to the forums here at PianoWorld. His new book is called Take the Lead Vol. 1 and is a good intro to playing from lead sheets. You could learn how to take an Elton song and create your own arrangement.

Good luck,
GregF

With all due respect, your post appears to contradict itself.

As you correctly say, the reason you want a teacher is to "ensure what the book cannot: that your hand, fingers, wrists, form, technique (among other concerns) are correct."

That is precisely why the "constant refrain for the employ of a teacher" continues! It is very difficult to learn those things from books, because as a beginner you by definition do not know what to look for vis-a-vis errors, and even if you knew what to look for, you usually cannot notice them because you cannot stand back and observe yourself.

So why would you want to learn the incorrect way, only to then have to unlearn it?

Waiting until you have self-learned what is very likely the incorrect way means that you will first have to un-learn those movements, and then learn the correct way, kind of like piano re-hab, with the added burden of the shadow of those bad habits lurking in the background. Bad habits of that type are typically very difficult to unlearn.

Don't put the cart before the horse...get a teacher from the start, and then, after at least a month or two of lessons, determine if you can go it alone. At the very least, you will have the proper hand posture and technique upon which to build.

The reason I say this is because I teach adult beginners...they comprise about about half of my studio.

Quite a few are self-taught who have stalled in their progress, and are seeking help from a teacher.

But those students have so many things to un-learn and fix that their obstacles to progress are huge, and in most cases, those folks give up after a while. If they only had a teacher for even a short while in the very beginning, that could have been avoided.

Hi Ray,

All I can say is learn a chord-based approach first. Learn your chords and learn how to read the treble clef. You sound like you want to play from pop/rock fake books.

Learn those chords! You don't need a teacher to do this (unless you want one) of course.

(scratching head)... What I typed is: "the teacher can ensure what the book cannot..."
Which is a far cry from: "you will do it wrong from the start".

By the way, teaching piano is your business, huh?
Who does your taxes and keeps your business' books?
If doing it yourself, then I don't recommend you continue.
No matter how small or big your piano teaching business is, you should really pay a professional.
Quickbooks? Turbotax?
Nah... too complicated for you to understand... you'll only make mistakes.

Look, I understand where you are coming from... (and with all due respect)... that by being a piano teacher you wouldn't want to encourage a "do it yourself" regimen.
I mean, that just wouldn't be good for business, would it?
Just as I (being a business consultant) probably wouldn't want to encourage people to buy and use Quickbooks and TurboTax.

Sure, mistakes can be made when you do it yourself, and if you don't have the confidence or where-with-all then by all means start immediately with a professional's help.
But... there is still a healthy percentage of those that do just fine without hiring an accountant or business consultant... or even a piano teacher.
Despite the popular brand of books, we are not all dummies.

Nonetheless, the general idea that I was trying to share in my initial reply was to keep it as inexpensive as possible until you are certain that playing piano is not a passing fancy.

And I feel it really does bear repeating: the general idea in my initial reply was to keep it as inexpensive as possible until you are certain that playing piano is not a passing fancy... like the original poster implied with his fleeting banjo endeavor.

Once certain that piano is worthy of our busy "adult" schedules... (schedules that are already full of other hobbies and interests)... then yes, by all means, employ a teacher to help with technical concerns.

Again, no disrespect intended in this post to piano teachers, business consultants, or banjo players.


Thanks,
AC

I actually tried that roll-out piano
on a plastic sheet and I found it
to be surprisingly good, not at all
a joke. You could actually learn to
play on this. I've seen it advertised
on late-nite tv as an introductory
piano learning system. This is valid.
A person could really learn how
to play on this.

You can learn to play piano literally
on anything with piano-like keys,
which includes: the organ, harpsichord,
clavichord, fortepiano, grand and
upright pianos, synth, digital piano,
electro-mechanical piano, MIDI
contoller keyboard connected
to a pc running piano
software, 61-key portable
keyboard, etc. Interestingly,
because the striking bars on a
xylophone are laid out the same
as the keys on a piano, a good
xylophonist, who has never played
anything but the xylophone, can sit
down at the piano and play it without
instruction.

But if the roll-out piano appeals
to you, then that's exactly what
you should learn on. Don't listen
to the people who ridicule it. They've
never even tried one and don't
know what they're talking about.

Welcome to the ABF, rayj00!
There is an infinite number of things to learn about piano playing so take it easy and enjoy the journey. I would say it is easier to start with a teacher, at least to get a few lessons to get you started. Keep looking around in the forum because we are many who have had similar questions about starting out!

Repeating this at every opportunity won't make it true, Gyro. From Wikipedia's article called "Musical Keyboard":


A "roll-up piano" could only have practical use if your ultimate goal is to play air piano. And in that case, you might as well paint keys on a two-by-four and use that.

Steven

I've been watching some of the Piano Guy videos on Youtube.
I subscribed to his channel, but I'm not sure he's still active
on it?

What's your opinion of his teaching methods?

Ray

Probably perfect for what you want to accomplish - playing pop songs off of lead sheets. That's what he teaches I believe.

Just wanted to say, welcome to the land of Piano ROCK! And that if Elton/Billy come to a town near you, go and see them. They are on tour together right now, and if you are getting into the piano mindset, you will enjoy the show immensely!

I am also just starting up- next week actually- when my new piano arrives!

I live out in the desert so I don't think they'll be coming here.

I have always admired those type of piano players....

If I can get 1/4 good as they are it would be an accomplishment!

I'm also looking at Pattern Piano by David Sprunger.
His technique is rhythmic patterns and playing by ear.

Pros or Cons?

Ray

Well, Ac, if you read the entire post you will see that I never said that "you will do it wrong from the start"....what I said was it is likely you will get some part of the complex hand/body/finger posture etc. wrong which will subsequently hurt your progress, and that you will not notice those errors, but a teacher will notice them, and correct them before they becomes ingrained, and much more difficult (and $$$ costly lesson-wise) to correct.

Furthermore, your statement that I post on this forum to make sure I make money is really over the top.

Here is what you said:

" Look, I understand where you are coming from... (and with all due respect)... that by being a piano teacher you wouldn't want to encourage a "do it yourself" regimen.
I mean, that just wouldn't be good for business, would it?"

That makes no sense at all, AC. Check my signature...I am anonymous here, just like you are. I have nothing to sell here, I do not advertise for local students on this world-wide forum, I do not sell anything via this forum. If you knew me, you would know that I make most of my money performing, and that I have a waiting list of prospective students.

You would also know that I have students who come once in a while for help, who otherwise are basically self-taught, which is why I said in my post that it would be wise to start with a teacher for a short while, then, if you choose, go on alone. That is not something I would say if I was in it for the money.

AC, then you said this:

Nonetheless, the general idea that I was trying to share in my initial reply was to keep it as inexpensive as possible until you are certain that playing piano is not a passing fancy.

And my response is basically that such an approach is penny-wise and pound foolish. Piano lessons are not expensive like buying a car, especially if you take them from the local community college as you are.

Spending a relatively few dollars for a few lessons will insure that you get started on the right foot, which will likely make your piano experience "stick" and be fun.

And once again, I do not post here as a teacher to make money! Geez!

Not really... since I think we are now both guilty of taking each other's commentary out of context and "reading too much into it".

My point simplified:
I don't expect any piano teachers on this forum (regardless if they actively advertise or not) to ever advocate a "do-it-yourself-no-teacher" regimen.
Why would you? It is inherently counter-productive to the piano teaching community.
Just as I would never expect accountants on some tax forum to advocate "do-it-yourself-no-accountant" software.
Again, it would be inherently counter-productive to the accounting community.

That's it... nothing more.
And it never entered my mind to insinuate that you would use this site or any other to pump your business.

As for the rest of it... I am sure we can agree to just do some good 'ol fashioned disagreeing...

Peace,
AC

Sounds good, AC.

Hi Ray,

I think Elton John / Billie Joel is not generally considered modern as you said but Pop/Rock. Modern is something else....

It's tough to learn anything on your own if you have no prior experience. Many returning hobbyists carry on after many years away without a teacher, which is a different situation. If you have no experience, you do need someone to show you and provide feedback. And a teacher doesn't mean a professional. Could be a friend, a neighbor. Of course, if you just want to have fun there is no need to take lessons for years on end, but IMO it's not possible to learn any instrument on your own cold without any help. Your experience with the banjo should tell you something.

The Alfred Basic All-in-One Piano Course is good. It's not the pop/rock music you like though. It's a quite dated but the method works.

Good luck.