I had the wonderful opportunity to read the new Piano Buyer today. I think that it is well done.I do however feel the Feurich should have been placed in the top group. Before any of you start thinking that i am biased,(since i own one)please let me explain. Last year Larry said basically his contacts and himself were not familiar enough with the Feurich but he felt it would be in the Tier one group. This year Larry put the Feurich in group two. He did say that maybe some pianos in group two may not have gained enough brand prestige to be in group one. I assume he would say Feurich would fall into this category, as they are a very low volume company. Most dealers,techs and pianist have never played a Feurich,(less than 20 grands are made per year).This being said i don't think Feurich got a fair assessment. When i bought my Feurich last year i was not familiar with this brand either. I played beautiful Bosies,Steingraebers and Bluthners.They all deserve their top placements. However when i played the Feurich it was the won that won my heart for it's base,dynamic range,touch etc. I studied very carefully and compared it's wormanship and quality of parts to the others i have mentioned. (About three months of studying and comparing)My friends let me tell you the Feurich's craftsmanship and quality of parts will and does compete with any of the other group one brands.I challenge anyone who gets a chance to play and study the time and workmanship that goes into every Feurich,to say it does not belong in group one. Again i feel if Larry and his contacts knew more about the Feurich(Larry himself has admitted that he did not know enough about the Feurichs to make a fair assessment) it would have been placed in group one.If not enough is known about a brand then i feel Larry should have stated so instead of placing it. Most all brands in group two everyone has heard of and played except for the Feurich. I also agree with Larry that the pianos put in group two have a wide range of quality. I promise i am not a piano snob,but i do feel there should have been sub groups. Don't get me wrong, the pianos listed in group two are all fine pianos. If my piano truly belonged in group two, i would consider myself blessed to have a piano that fell within the ranks of these fine pianos.Seilers and the others are beautiful and wonderful pianos.To have a piano ranked as high quality and performance grade is good enough for me. All i want is for the Feurich to be heard and played before anyone says that it does not belong in group one with the highest quality pianos.They will surely learn what i already know. I learned the time and love that Julius Feurich puts into every one of his pianos.He is the fifth generation of one of the oldest German manufactures still around. I feel he has been done an injustice.(Probably not on purpose but because of lack of knowledge and the fact that Feurich's are few and far between when compared to other brands). For many generations Feurich has been considered one of the highest quality pianos made. I would like to add that the new Piano Buyer is a wealth of knowledge and i have always valued Larry Fine's opinions. I only hope that in the upcoming year Larry and his contacts will make it a priority to play and learn more about the Feurichs and then give his assessment.A fair assessment cannot be made without the opinions of many contacts who have actually played and studied the workmanship and quality of a Feurich. If then Larry and his contacts felt it belonged in group two then i would respect their opinion but not necessarily agree with it.(as this is a very subjective matter). Thanks Larry for the book and i do plan to order a copy of it.

Respectfully,
Terry Cunningham

Who really cares how top German instruments are rated by Larry Fine outside of a few obsessive, insecure piano enthusiasts in the states?

Thing is though, outside of this small community I would wager that Steingraeber shares the same lack of name recognition as Feurich, Grotrian, and Sauter does. So it must be more than just name recognition and prestige that puts Steingraeber in the ultra-elite group one.

Last year, when Fine said Feurich should probably be ranked in Group 1, his Group 1 included eleven brands divided as 1A, 1B and 1C. And he was criticized for "demoting" Mason and Hamlin to Group 2A.

This year his new Group 1 includes only the six brands listed in last year's 1A category - and the other five brands (formerly 1B and 1C) are now part of the new Group 2 - which includes both Mason and Hamlin and Feurich as well.

The new Group 2 pianos definitely are high-end instruments - but very few folks would argue that they are in the same league as the six brands in Group 1 - formerly Group 1A.

I think Mr. Fine's new ranking system - with the basic alphabetical listings in each group - is brilliant.

Thing is though, outside of this small community I would wager that Steingraeber shares the same lack of name recognition as Feurich, Grotrian, and Sauter does. So it must be more than just name recognition and prestige that puts Steingraeber in the ultra-elite group one.

FWIW I just wrote Larry Fine because Hardman and Peck is not on his 'good vintage piano brands' list, and he replied to me immediately. Terry, maybe you could just email him (maybe you already have) and he'll tell you why Feurich is where it is on his ranking.

What i am concerned about is the consumer might over look a Feurich simply because they think it is inferior to the Other group 1 pianos listed. This is not fair to Julius Feurich.Simply put,don't rate this piano without proper knowledge of the instrument.It is an incredible instrument!!!!!

The fact that they contracted their piano production to Schimmel among others and got involved in that China deal may be cause for caution in elevating it the level that you would like.

Again,ratings or no ratings,I have played Steingraebers,Bosies,Bluthners,etc.I do own one of these rare jewels as Norbert would say(Feurich)and can say without a doubt,they are made every bit as good as any piano in group one. If anyone responding to this thread has not played or heard of a Feurich,you cannot make a fair assessment either.

Per Pianoloverus - "The original poster owns a Feurich and upset that it is not in group I. The above poster who owns a Mason(as I do) is pleased because Mason is now in the same class as last year's Groups IB and IC."

Dear Pianoloverus (and esteemed fellow BB owner) - Actually I didn't say in my post that I was "pleased" Mason is back with the 1B and 1C instruments. I was simply clarifying that they are all now in the new Group 2. I think Fine's new ranking system is "brilliant" because he has decided (wisely) to lump comparable pianos together in one grouping alphabetically without further breakdown. The more general - the better.

The info in Fine's book is great for new buyers but this need for constant validation by happy piano owners is baffling to me.

Enjoy the piano that you love --tiers be damned
!

Turandot,have you ever played a Feurich? I suggest you don't because you may be tempted and forced to make a much higher and serious upgrade.Make sure and bring lots of money because QUALITY IS NOT CHEAP,IT'S PRICELESS.Then you too would become a Feurich fanatic as i and others who own them are.And yes my complaint is persistent but respect is meant where due.

One consolation is that Mr. Fine is on record in Piano Buyer saying that Feurich pianos are built completely of German parts. That's no mean feat these days, and knowing how you feel about German craftsmanship, you should derive some satisfaction from that.

I was a bit disappointed that Larry didn't gather a quote from a Seiler dealer about the Seiler sound profile. I liked the dealer impressions and why they liked their top brands. Subjective but informative. You get a rough idea about how a particular piano sounds. Had Fine written this section himself, people would have accused him of being biased. Now, I regret that there is no statement about the Seiler tone color (which I think is pretty unique), but honestly, so be it. They haven't had much exposure here in the U.S. (I guess similar to Feurich), and thus they're not at the center. But that's ok as long as you love your piano.

[...]

Enjoy the piano that you love --tiers be damned!

BTW, dude. I've been meaning to ask you. What do you think of Feurich pianos?

Pianoloverous,I have decided to take Les's advice. "Tiers be damned" If it means so much to you to try and win this debate,then i crown you the winner.So i'm going to relax and go play the piano that i absolutely adore. I'll be happy knowing that i am playing a quality piano with 100% German parts.I just can't take this ranking system serious anymore. I just can't respect or trust the opinion of one that would publish a book and put a Feurich in the same group as another brand that uses parts from China to cut costs. You just might be familiar with the brand of which i am speaking.Three guesses and your out. Cheers and have a good life when you get one.My debate with you has ended on this topic and i shall not respond to anymore of your posts concerning this matter.

I just can't respect or trust the opinion of one that would publish a book and put a Feurich in the same group as another brand that uses parts from China to cut costs. You just might be familiar with the brand of which i am speaking.Three guesses and your out. Respectfully,
Terry Cunningham

The only others belongong to this increasingly rare species are Grotrian,August Foerster, Pfeiffer, Steingraeber and Sauter.

The others make pianos with 100% German parts, but dabble in sublines that come either from elsewhere or are using parts made outside Germany.

Norbert

Terry,
Resent PM.

Hey now! Terry made a complete and sincere apology -- I would not resent "any" PM sent by Terry -- only one he sent if he's having a bad day again!